New ancient alien series on the History channel tonight..Why now?

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex


By the by, you would do well to ignore MatrixRising. She operates off a script and cannot deviate from it; she will repeat the same lines and lies over and over, and ignore any questions her script cannot answer. It is useless to discuss anything with someone who so well defines the term "closed-minded". She is little more than an automaton.

But what script are you talking about? The one where she says that all skeptics are close minded at the beginning of EVERY post? Or that we never look at the facts, when that's exactly what we look for?

But yes, I guess going into a program with an "open mind" should steer away from the EXTREMELY easy facts about something as simple as oxygen. Why should I believe a program that tells us that Egyptians had light-bulbs, because when they were exploring the tombs, their lighters didn't work from lack of oxygen, yet, somehow, they were able to breathe. Hmmmmm 2+2=5. Either they don't know how oxygen works, or, just like most of the show, it is all fabrication with a HUGE bias towards it. But no, Matrix says we should believe this crap, because we need to go into a program, that is obviously lying to us, with an "open mind". Having an open mind is one thing, but having an ignorant mind is another. Sorry Matrix, but you need to edit your post, to say that we need to watch the show with an ignorant mind, in order to believe.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by TravisT]

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Anamnesis
You say that not one single thought provoking questio was asked. However, I beg to differ. One example touched upon in the show were the Megalithic stones cut to such precision that it could not be duplicated today w/out the use of computers and high-tech cutting machines, the most intriguing of which can be found at the Puma-Punku ruins in Bolivia. Not only are these stones cut to precision they were mass produced as modular building blocks. Anyone who has cut stones will tell you that w/out the use of modern diamond cutting tools the task would be next to impossible to produce just one block.

Again suspiciously, the program failed to inform viewers that close inspection of the blocks at Puma Punka reveals chisel marks in the cuts.

See what I mean?

Harte

Would be great if you provided a source. That way I don't have to take your word for it.

So... what kind of chisels are we talking about here? Copper? Brass?Forged Steel???

There are some estimates that Puma-Punku is about 14,000 yrs old, well before copper was first smelted (according to current theories)

I'm not buying the whole chisel story. I'm a stone cutter! Most of the stone I cut is 6.0 or better on the MOHS scale of hardness. There is no friggin way anyone could accomplish that kind of precision using copper chisels. That makes me laugh out loud!! Hell, even Silicon Carbide blades would be taxed to the limit with the amount of cutting just on one of those blocks. ONLY diamond scintered blades could cut make cuts that precise.

This is what kills me about ATS. Lots of idots flapping their gums w/out amy practical knowledge or experience to back itup. What a joke.

reply to post by Anamnesis


Umm from 10,000 to 100,000 BCE the Bushmen culture was dominant -- and there's plenty of info on them. They practice alchemy. There's about 5,000 left living traditionally.

reply to post by drew hempel


What's your point Drew?

reply to post by Anamnesis


Oh you're a stone cutter? Brown's gas!

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

That's how ancient civilization did it to the stones.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by Anamnesis

 

Oh you're a stone cutter? Brown's gas!

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

That's how ancient civilization did it to the stones.

www.youtube.com...

LOL... So... your saying that the ancients had a plasma torch capable of generating about 4,000 degrees at a focal point? That's what it takes to cut Granite w/a plasma cutter my friend. (at least MOHS 6). That might work fine for a cut only a inch or so deep but what about several inches? or even several feet?

Just more spew from someone who has no clue....

Well... thanks for confirming my point that it would take some type of tech other than chisels to cut those stones....

And yes... I'm a stone cutter. I use diamond scintered saw blades to cut agates which are normally around MOHS 7. I've used Silicon Carbide grinding wheels to sculpt and polish stones as well... I've logged thousands of hours on an 18" slab saw.... I've been cutting shaping and polishing stones for about 6 years now....



[edit on 22-4-2010 by Anamnesis]

reply to post by Anamnesis


www.svpvril.com...

www.google.com...

Yeah melting granite.

Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by Anamnesis

 

www.svpvril.com...

www.google.com...

Yeah melting granite.

Drew, Have you ever used a cutting torch? I can tell you from experience that it's extremely difficult to make precise cuts w/a Plasma cutter and virtually impossible to make an internal cut to a fixed depth using a torch. This is exactly what we find at Puma-Punku; internal cuts at right angles to a fixed depth, mass produced!!

W/regards to Brown's Gas - This is merely electrolysed water. It's a scam perpetrated upon the tin foil hat wearing folks.

HHO - If I remember my Chem 101 correctly. Doesn't that molecular formulae require the Hydrogen atom to posess two covalent bonds simultaneaously? Last I check the Hydrogen Atom can only have one covalent bond as it only has one valence and one electron.

Please dude... this is getting old...


[edit on 22-4-2010 by Anamnesis]

reply to post by Anamnesis


There's companies using Brown's Gas torch -- no I've never cut stone. I've done art welding. haha. Maybe 25 years ago! This stuff melts granite -- as for "depth" well it's just a matter of perspective. You can cut out pieces and then decrease the depth right?

www.hytechapps.com...


[edit on 22-4-2010 by drew hempel]

reply to post by drew hempel


The funny thing is that you and I seem to be in agreement that the methods for cutting those stones must have been something other than copper chisels. Right?

When "Brown's Gas" is used for welding applications it's merely a combination of Hydrogen gas and Oxygen, which is just like any other torch setup except the combustable gas is usually Acetylene. A quick search reveals that a Brown's Gas torch can only achieve about 2800 °C , far less than the required 4,000 degrees to cut or melt Granite/Basalt.

But... I hear ya man. Couldn't have been Copper Chisels... no way.

reply to post by Anamnesis


You're the expert although the youtube comments state:

www.youtube.com...

At 2 mns granite is MELTED!!

drax325 Well granite is mostly made of SiO2, which has melting point 1650'C (wiki). Hydrogen burns at I think more than 2000'C some sites say as much as 2300'C

Originally posted by Anamnesis
So... what kind of chisels are we talking about here? Copper? Brass?Forged Steel???

There are some estimates that Puma-Punku is about 14,000 yrs old, well before copper was first smelted (according to current theories)

According to who? What is the source for this?

Originally posted by Anamnesis
I'm not buying the whole chisel story. I'm a stone cutter!

This is what kills me about ATS. Lots of idots flapping their gums w/out amy practical knowledge or experience to back itup. What a joke.

What kills me is that you keep demanding "evidence" but expect us to to your word for it. Sorry, I am not taking you are your word that you are a stone-cutter or have any experience.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


It killing you? That's too bad.

I'm not demanding evidence. I asked for a source from ONE respondant.

Well in the interest of saving your life: Here's some sources for my claims:

Source for Granite cutting temp: 3800 degrees
Sculpure uses torch to cut Granite

Drew - In the lab I'm sure Granite's melting point is much lower than it needs to be for actual cutting and sculpting. But we're talking about practical applications here. Many times the realities of the construction site don't jive w/what occurs in the lab....

Brown's Gas:
Oxyhydrogen - Wiki

With regards to Puma Punku's age: I mentioned that SOME estimate the age at between 14,000 and 17,000 years old. But it doesn't really matter if it the age isn't accurate. It wasn't built in the modern industrial age.

Doom - Did you come here just to b*tch slap me or do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?




[edit on 23-4-2010 by Anamnesis]

Originally posted by Anamnesis

Originally posted by Harte
Again suspiciously, the program failed to inform viewers that close inspection of the blocks at Puma Punka reveals chisel marks in the cuts.

See what I mean?

Harte

Would be great if you provided a source. That way I don't have to take your word for it.

Can't do it right now, I'm at work.

It was on the web in a PDF of a paper published by one of the archaeologists that has worked at the site, though.

I believe it's linked around here at ATS somewhere.

I will try to find it and link it for you later.

And you're right, of course, about Brown's gas.

Re chisels, IIRC, the idea was that the stones were sawn and then the pieces chiseled out.

But, we'll see when I have time to locate the PDF for you.

In the meantime, what's your take on the Vimanika Shastra part I posted about?

Do you trust this "documentary" given the fact they pretended that the V.S. was an "ancient" Vedic text?

Harte

Originally posted by Anamnesis
With regards to Puma Punku's age: I mentioned that SOME estimate the age at between 14,000 and 17,000 years old. But it doesn't really matter if it the age isn't accurate. It wasn't built in the modern industrial age.

I asked who is making those claims.

And for the purposes of our conversation, it does matter.

Originally posted by Anamnesis
Doom - Did you come here just to b*tch slap me or do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?

If you were not so self-absorbed, you would have noticed I've made other posts in this thread. Slapping you was just a bonus.




[edit on 23-4-2010 by Anamnesis]

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Anamnesis

Originally posted by Harte
Again suspiciously, the program failed to inform viewers that close inspection of the blocks at Puma Punka reveals chisel marks in the cuts.

See what I mean?

Harte

Would be great if you provided a source. That way I don't have to take your word for it.

Can't do it right now, I'm at work.

It was on the web in a PDF of a paper published by one of the archaeologists that has worked at the site, though.

I believe it's linked around here at ATS somewhere.

I will try to find it and link it for you later.

And you're right, of course, about Brown's gas.

Re chisels, IIRC, the idea was that the stones were sawn and then the pieces chiseled out.

But, we'll see when I have time to locate the PDF for you.

In the meantime, what's your take on the Vimanika Shastra part I posted about?

Do you trust this "documentary" given the fact they pretended that the V.S. was an "ancient" Vedic text?

Harte

Well... no, I don't trust the documentary entirely. You're dead on with regards to the Viminaka Shastra... I remember reading that it was "channeled" in relative recent times. But I'm not saying that the entire documentary should be taken as gospel either.... the intriguing parts for me were the megalithic stone sites. The questions asked by people who actually plan, manage and develop large construction projects were valid. I find it interesting that archeologists, who've never built anything in their lives, can presume to speculate about the construction methods used. I'm much more inclined to believe someone who has practical experience. I didn't comment on the rest of the "stuff" in the documentary because I have limited knowledge of those topics....

I view these things mostly as entertainment... but I can't dismiss the valid questions raised w/regards to the stone cutting tehniques....

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

If you were not so self-absorbed, you would have noticed I've made other posts in this thread. Slapping you was just a bonus.

lol... ok tough guy... internet gangsta... hehe... keepin it real...

Oh... and I'm not any more self absorbed than the next guy.... I just normally ignore your posts... it's like you're invisible...

Originally posted by Anamnesis

Well... no, I don't trust the documentary entirely. You're dead on with regards to the Viminaka Shastra... I remember reading that it was "channeled" in relative recent times. But I'm not saying that the entire documentary should be taken as gospel either.... the intriguing parts for me were the megalithic stone sites.

Didn't the Rigveda also describe flying machines, and wasn't it written around 1500 BC?

Originally posted by Anamnesis
lol... ok tough guy... internet gangsta... hehe... keepin it real...

Anamnesis, I hate to tell you this, but your racism is showing.

Originally posted by draknoir2

Originally posted by Anamnesis

Well... no, I don't trust the documentary entirely. You're dead on with regards to the Viminaka Shastra... I remember reading that it was "channeled" in relative recent times. But I'm not saying that the entire documentary should be taken as gospel either.... the intriguing parts for me were the megalithic stone sites.

Didn't the Rigveda also describe flying machines, and wasn't it written around 1500 BC?

Yes.

They are also in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata as well a many other works.

But these don't really describe them nor do they describe the methods used for flying them, the "mercury vortex engines" that the V.S. describes, the drawings, etc.

Flying vehicles are mentioned in the mythos of multiple cultures. So are giants, seven-headed serpents, dragons, tiny magical people, and talking bears.

Harte

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Anamnesis
lol... ok tough guy... internet gangsta... hehe... keepin it real...

Anamnesis, I hate to tell you this, but your racism is showing.

HAHAHA!!!!!

Oh brother.... no... my dislike for punks is showing... and your ignorance is showing...