Oklahoma lawmakers and Tea party discuss forming a militia

reply to post by StevenX101


Before you start slandering those of us in the Tea Party Movement concerning our "lack of education" perhaps you should learn to spell the word "Homicidal" properly.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by m khan

 

I am a bit confused. Am I a devil for pointing out what is happening? Or are the perpetrators of this militia building a devil?

For portraying the people of Oklahoma as a bunch of militants that the government might want to go after. For encouraging the govt to point their guns in our direction. For setting up public opinion to endorse the government line.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by m khan]

Doesn"t Oklahoma already have a National Guard - the state militia?

Oh, right, the feds took over the states National Guards after 9/11....

reply to post by lee anoma


See it is this type of sensible rhetoric that has gotten us where we are. It is common sense that a group of people defending themselves means that it is anti-american, and the destruction of democracy. Good thing common sense is for the delusional, mind controlled and ignorant.

If you felt like being anthropological about anything you would be able to research the facts not just take for granted your beliefs using them as facts with no evidence. The civil war was started by patriots, by people who had enough of the intrusions, and for better or for worse they decided to say no to the organization they distrusted. It was not the south that attacked anyone, the war was fought mostly in the south; which means it was the war the north declared.

People who have had enough generally just want to be left alone they rarely force their decisions on others, that wave of thinking "oh my god the nuts with the guns and the organization, and the paranoia of the government, oh my god they are terrorists and were all going to lose america" is subversive control. Just the fact that all of the "patriot nuts" who in the past 50 years have made an attack against the government have had such conspiracies about them, the fact that they might have been agents, or chemically controlled psychopaths should tell you that a normal person is not going to commit treason by trying to assassinate an important figure, or start a war.

Most of these people just want to be left alone, which if this was the America I grew up in they would be allowed to do that without inhibition. Wake up people stop bickering using the words that have been laid out for you by the TelePrompTer, use your logic or nothing at all.

ok, I got an idea

We round up all these fringe righties, shove them all into texas...then saw off texas and kick it into the gulf.

They can have their neocon theocratic utopia and everyone is happy.

They can even have their own passport (although they will probably shoot anyone trying to push a ID on their island).

Then, the rest of the civilized world can simply ignore the weird and violent little nation.

I mean, thats what they wanted and failed to do 150 years ago, right...so, consider it just a slight delay to their original plans..

All for it? Shall we get our hack saws now?

reply to post by StevenX101


Dear Sir...or Madam... Within your post lies the problem. You said we are a "Democracy"...no, we are a Republic, a form of democracy in which the populace is represented by elected officials and representatives...however, many feel they are no longer being represented...this leads us back to the well worn "taxation without representation."

This simple principle is the cause for so much consternation these days... and days to come.

Originally posted by StevenX101
100,000 toothless militia members + Fix News+ Rush Scumbaugh+ Whiskey+ lack of education + homosidal rhetoric + teabagger biggotry + lots of guns...

Do you see the irony within your own ranting post? Without looking the word up Steven, what does bigotry mean? I have a sense that when you do finally realize what it means, you will come to terms that your post is highly ironic and quite comical. Also to note - When you are trying to be funny, sarcastic, witty, or condescending, it would be wise to make coherent sense and actually use the brain that you seemingly have neglected.

----

Now onto the OP:

As for the State forming a militia; it has the power to do so. It would fall under the Governor of said State and would be well-regulated. A State sponsored militia is going to be akin to local townsmen gathering together for a common purpose of defense; just regulated and controlled by the State.

As per the 2nd, 9th and 10th Amendments, Congress' hands are tied in trying to compel a State from forming a regulated militia.

2nd Amendment: This bars the Federal Government from stopping a State from forming a militia.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

9th Amendment: By invoking their 9th Amendment rights, the People of the State enable themselves the ability to hold the right to form a militia even if their State's Constitution specifically bars them from doing so.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10th Amendment: The cream of the crop in not only States' rights, but also the Peoples' rights. This amendment clearly and plainly explains that powers not given to Congress and/or Federal Government are reserved for the States and People to hold.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I personally would rather see a well regulated militia; controlled by the State than smaller, less organized groups that are susceptible to scrutiny and attack by the Federal Government. I do however, support such groups as they are exercising their protected rights as laid forth in the Bill of Rights.

This is great news. The federal government must be pushed from all states from ALL directions!

This would be a great start

1) All states should declare Obamcare Unconstitutional and invalid in their states. Nobody will be fined or be taken to jail because our illegal Prez says so!

2) All states should legalize and tax all drugs since we now know they are only illegal to make the CIA and other government agencies money by bringing them into the country. This money would eliminate the States ever having to bow down to the Federal Government again since Hemp alone would crate enough State revenue to cover all their expenses especially after Auditors would go through and find all the money hidden in the CAFRs (Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports)

3) All states should develop natural cures and doctors that will provide them for a big discount so we can end the Big Pharma scams and have a much healthier nation once we get everybody off their poisons.

4) All states should sign a petition to abolish the private bank called Federal Reserve since that is the root of all our problems.

5) All states should sign a pledge to ignore all Washington dictates about gun ownership and registration since that is against the Constitution

6) All States should exert their sovereignty at every level and put the pressure on the Federal Government to ONLY regulate what is specifically mentioned in the Constitution.

Originally posted by Aziroth
The civil war was started by patriots, by people who had enough of the intrusions, and for better or for worse they decided to say no to the organization they distrusted. It was not the south that attacked anyone, the war was fought mostly in the south; which means it was the war the north declared.

Ahh facts...what funny things they are, ruining a perfectly good rant.

The confederates attacked Fort Sumter, which was the starting of the violence. 3 seconds with the google will explain this

as far as the whole patriots...no, they weren't. The south feared the north would soon abolish slavery...the south, with heavy use of slave labor, didn't like that idea and wanted to create their own slave based economy. The rich plantation owners at the time were truely calling the shots and influenced the rebel movement (as now, so was then, that the rich corporations...or in this case, plantation owners, truely were the movers behind the movement).

So, if you think that the real patriots = anyone whom is pro corporate, pro slave economy.
In that line of thinking, I am soooo not a patriot.

incidently, I believe July is Northern Heritage month, where the north reflects on the fine work they did in beating the snot out of the southern rebels and handed them down a barrel of whoop arse.

Originally posted by Ahabstar


People, myself included, were very apprehensive to Obama's mention of need to raise an army of civilians equal to or better armed and supplied than the US Army. The offhand opinion was Obama's SS. But would this not be the same thing?

The civilian army above mentioned would be made up of our children, 15 and up like in China.The SS is still with us, deep within the CIA so that third generation (probably) paperclip bastards are given CIA and mercenary jobs because of their "bloodlines" like that guy on this thread

[edit on 13-4-2010 by m khan]

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
.however, many feel they are no longer being represented...this leads us back to the well worn "taxation without representation."

Well thats because they are idiots

Minority partys are not represented..because they are the minority party. If they truely cared, they would formulate their arguements better and become the majority.

You know who is certainly not represented? Technocrats...not a single technocrat is represented. Why? I mean, granted...there are hardly any to begin with.

reply to post by lee anoma


What of the smaller segment of the country that runs things by misrepresentation of intent, acceptance of bribes and just causing general malfeasance so that groups would want to come to such a position?

Quite a very large segment of the population has said "No!" to actions taken by our government three times in the past two years. Would it not be prudent for the government to err on the side of caution instead of doing whatever it is they wish to do because they can?

Must the people of a country endure whatever actions are done until the next scheduled election cycle? Is there to be no recourse, no final check to the balances held by the people to be used except by permission?

Preamble
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

There is the check. It is the people that own this country, permit it to exist and allow it to continue.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

And there is the balance. The legal right to self-preservation from any group or enemy, foreign or domestic, that would override the most basic freedoms of Life, Liberty and Property.

Any politician that tells you otherwise is either lying or clueless to what he/she is doing and should be removed from office. In fact, anyone that believes that the people should have no say nor power in anything, are the very ones that need a closer examination.

It is one thing to say that these actions are bad and wrong out of a sense of protection of the innocent as m khan has pointed out. It is another matter completely to condemn these actions on a political basis. Especially on the "your side lost, get over it" premise.

Originally posted by projectnsearch
This is great news. The federal government must be pushed from all states from ALL directions!

This would be a great start

1) All states should declare Obamcare Unconstitutional and invalid in their states. Nobody will be fined or be taken to jail because our illegal Prez says so!

2) All states should legalize and tax all drugs since we now know they are only illegal to make the CIA and other government agencies money by bringing them into the country. This money would eliminate the States ever having to bow down to the Federal Government again since Hemp alone would crate enough State revenue to cover all their expenses especially after Auditors would go through and find all the money hidden in the CAFRs (Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports)

3) All states should develop natural cures and doctors that will provide them for a big discount so we can end the Big Pharma scams and have a much healthier nation once we get everybody off their poisons.

4) All states should sign a petition to abolish the private bank called Federal Reserve since that is the root of all our problems.

5) All states should sign a pledge to ignore all Washington dictates about gun ownership and registration since that is against the Constitution

6) All States should exert their sovereignty at every level and put the pressure on the Federal Government to ONLY regulate what is specifically mentioned in the Constitution.

Sounds like a pipe dream because the Health Care Bill is constitutional

Want to make change? run for office and do it legally without physical violence.

Half the country likes and enjoys the new Healthcare bill so you would be working against the interest of half the country just for your own personal pleasure.

Nobody has yet been put in jail over the Healthcare Bill
Nobody will be arrested for not having Healthcare

You better not take away my Healthcare from this Bill that just passed, I like it.

This Oklahoma Militia and silly nonsense is a big joke, a failure, a way for more likes to be spread.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I mean, thats what they wanted and failed to do 150 years ago, right...so, consider it just a slight delay to their original plans..

Who is they and what exactly are you referring to? If you are talking about the cause and effect of what led up to the Civil War, may I suggest you seriously brush up on your history.

May I suggest the 2 volume piece written by Shelby Foote, The Civil War

That way you don't make a blatant and quite ignorant comment as the one above.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
.however, many feel they are no longer being represented...this leads us back to the well worn "taxation without representation."

Well thats because they are idiots

Minority partys are not represented..because they are the minority party. If they truely cared, they would formulate their arguements better and become the majority.

The minorities are not represented because they are not majorities. The majority of people in this country believe that the govt lied about 911. They are still a majority. Yet admitting to being one of them is supposed to exile you from politics, like Debra Medina.
The ptb are the majority because they have the money, our money, they have the power, stolen from us. If you cross them, they WILL kill you. Ask Terrance Yeakey's family.

[edit on 13-4-2010 by m khan]

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Who is they and what exactly are you referring to?

He was referring to the facts behind the Civil War, not the twisted, ignorant re-writing and white-washing of history you are trying to promote.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I like you Saturn, straight to the point. Let me respond in kind...

Has your light bill gone up?....mine has due to taxes and surcharges.

Has your gas/heating bill gone up?... some market influence, but also taxes and surcharges

How about this idea of a VAT on purchases? More taxes....

Minority, majority...doesn't matter. we will all pay more due to policies of the Federal Govt.

I'm working hard to save and invest for retirement... not counting on Social Security. Now , Obama is rolling around the idea of taking my hard earned money I'm investing and giving me fed backed T-Bills.

If you are a working adult, you should be concerned at this point.

If a teen, then you won't be impacted until you roll into Mickey D's on Sat night and your dollar menu is gone, or roll into the station to get a little gas...and you find you can't go to Mickey D's because you spent it all on gas. Or you get your hours cut at the PT job because sales are down...

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Yes, taxes rise..and you pointed out a bunch of state taxes.
I dont make enough to contribute to the fed...wish I did, but alas, I dont.

So, my state hammers me. I am currently in Florida, Florida is ruled by Republicans...yes, let me rebel against the republicans for taxes

let me get in my car, drive down the roads paid for by the state, perhaps pull over here and there and enjoy a stretch of my legs at state sponsored rest stops and parks, then continue driving down the state roads until I meet my rep and complain that my taxes are too high

I may get thirsty while chatting, so will drink the clean water provided by the state out of a fountain.
Hmm, I will need to find out if I even have a good arguement...better research local law..time to visit a state sponsored free library.

I will get my parents involved also...lets see. Moms on medicare, dads on medicare and getting military pension...damned socialists.

etc

Taxes is just a way of life mate...you complain about them, but then you use the product of the state tax almost every day...from trash pickup, to roads, etc.

Actually what we should do is declare that the National Guard IS our state militia and immediately demand their return from Iraq and Afghanistan, sever their ties with the DOD and let them defend us.
Our biggest fear, next to being dragged off to a fema camp, is to be attacked by thugs trained by the CIA in Juarez.
India has suffered considerable communal warfare. If you read Patwant Singh Of Dreams And Demons communal warfare is ALWAYS paid thugs. One of the recurring complaints in those situations is that the police are always accused of refusing to protect people. Since the CIA, after Indira Gandhi's assassination, (she had CIA infiltrate her cabinet just before her death that was blamed on her Sikh bodyguards and resulted in trademark communal warfare), since the CIA have taken over the Indian government, this is obviously their policy. Look how the army wouldn't let the rescuers dig up the trapped Haitians because of "safety concerns" The police is not there to help you anymore. They belong to the ptb. The ptb have their own agenda. Chaos is one of their tools. Guns wouldn't do much good against kevlar coated riot police who come to your house to drag you away, but might help against the pretend "drug war" gangs that are being prepared to attack you. Unfortunately the kevlar coated police will come and take away your guns, THEN they will unleash the "drug war" thugs on you.
Bt the way, if our all volunteer army is so effective, then why do we need to send in our National Guard and hire Blackwater thug mercenaries. Isn't the National Guard supposed to be our state militia. If the army has taken it over and it cannot obey a state demand that it return home, then that must be unconstitutional.



[edit on 13-4-2010 by m khan]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

He was referring to the facts behind the Civil War, not the twisted, ignorant re-writing and white-washing of history you are trying to promote.

Yet you cannot answer the question. What facts exactly, as that was my original question.

The books I suggested are regarded among the most notable and detailed accounts of the Civil War, minus some economic issues and political back lighting so to speak, but give a very detailed account; one that is hits on both sides in regards to the mess the Civil War was to become.

So what white-washing of history am I trying to promote? What ignorant and twisted views am I perpetuating other than suggesting people educate themselves a bit more on a subject before spouting off an uneducated response.