Missing link between man and apes found

Originally posted by abecedarian
+90% similarity with higher primates DNA is no evidence of common evoluition?

It's a possibility. However the bible says we were created in the image and likeness of the gods. It would also stand to reason that DNA of the humanoids that previously occupied this planet would be included in that creation, would it not?

Originally posted by abecedarian
And yet there is no evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation and still you claim our creators came to this world from the heavens?

There's evidence everywhere if you look. There's evidence in many countries that have been written or drawn thousands of years ago. The bible is chock-full of evidence.

WTF do you think the chariots were that the gods and angels traveled around in? They surely didn't ascend and descend from the heavens in a horse-drawn chariot. But the people of thousands of years ago didn't have the words of "spaceship", "plane", "rocket", etc. They used other words in their vocabulary like "chariots", "clouds" and "pillars". I think one verse in the bible even mentioned a flying furnace.

Chariots (simply translated as "vehicles") traveled through the sky and ascended and descened from the sky. Since horse-drawn chariots cannot fly and certainly up into space, then you are only left with the fact that the chariots were, in fact, ships. The bible makes much more sense if you can understand that gods flew around in ships and ascended and descended the heavens in their ships.

I already posted a verse where Jesus himself said that his kingdom was not of this planet.

Originally posted by abecedarian
You don't believe in god but believe in alien creation?

I don't believe in an all knowing, all powerful, all seeing, invisible, omnipotent being that has just "always been there". If there is such a thing, something had to have created him, but religious fanatics will just say that he always has been and always will be. Sorry, that does not compute.

Originally posted by abecedarian
An alien creator of our race would be no less than a god, in our eyes.

Back then, yes. Today with our knowledge and technology? No.

Originally posted by abecedarian
By your admission, humans are neither the result of evolution nor religious creation.

By my admission, modern humans did not evolve on this planet, nor were we created by some all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, invisible, omnipotent "being".

Unless there are omnipotent beings out there like the "Q" beings in Star Trek. But, omnipotence doesn't make one a "god". Maybe thousands of years ago to the people that didn't know any better. But not in this day and age.

reply to Studenofhistory


We have no idea how Gravity works. We do not know the full details of the inner working of the Atom. Based on your premise, since we do not fully understand these things the Sun can not be nuclear powered and gravity does not exist.

Certainly there are aspects of evolution where we do not have all the details. We are still learning more every day. But we do know a great deal. Fused Chromosomes are not magic and there is a huge difference between horses breeding with donkeys, two different species, and humans having chromosomal variations from our distant ancestors. If you take the time to learn there is a great deal of information available. The link I provided was simply a beginning for you to look at. There is a great deal more.

You stated that thee were no transitional fossils and challenged me to demonstrate just one, and you would concede the point. I linked you to several and you haven't conceded the point yet. If you had done your homework like I suggested, you would have known better.

You stated that you have done a great deal of research on the subject and found nothing about why the chromosome count could be different between Apes and Man, yet it took me only seconds to link you to an article on the Fusing of Chromosomes. There are numerous other articles on the subject as well as a large number of scientific research papers which are readily available. How much research did you ever do . . . Any? You stated that the chromosome count difference indicated that Apes and Humans could not have a common ancestor, Again the science refutes that, and it is indeed understandable. I suggest that you do a bit more research as the subject is quite fascinating and not beyond comprehension. The evidence for evolution is quite deep on a variety of fronts. We are learning more all the time.

Gravity exists despite our lack of understanding how or why. We do not fully understand the inner workings of the atom, yet the sun still shines and the apple still falls. With the research going on at CERN and other labs around the world, we will learn more. The same is true for evolution. The Human Genome Project has opened our eyes to a huge set of data that is helping to point out our past, and future, as a primate species.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
I don't get it.

There are no missing links in existence.
There are only missing fosile remains.

I guess that all depends on what one means by "missing link" Transitional species is a good way to put it and there are living models of this. The Mudskipper comes to mind as a great example of a living transitional species, which is much like the Tiktaalik of fossil record. The truth is that ALL species are transitional species, as they all continue to evolve.

Here is a link to an article on Speciation which includes several examples of what one may consider intermediate species, or species in transition: Evolution - Species Ring

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by brainwrek

 

Why the hell do so many people have such a hard-on to find out and prove we came from Apes?

You all clap and eooooooo and ahhhhhhh over any old ass bone that only adds more questions to the age old mystery of "did we come from a monkeys stinky vagina?".

Why?.....WHY?

LOL you guys remind me of crazy religious nuts who crumble to the floor in a fetal position every time a peperoni looks like Jesus on a pizza.

I'll tell you one this if by chance I some how by total mistake discover I am a descendant of a god damn ape.....I'm keeping that in the closet.....

Some things are just to embarrassing for people to find out about.

Just because you embrace ignorance doesn't mean we all do.

i've heard this before, its the missing link, they found other skeletons and fossils that they said would fill the gap, this one may be different, but chances are it isn't

On topic: Nice thread OP, an interesting read.

Off topic: It's nice to see that there's quite a lot of belitteling going on here. Way to be ATS'ers.

Originally posted by brainwrek

The new species of hominid, the evolutionary branch of primates that includes humans, is to be revealed when the two-million-year-old skeleton of a child is unveiled this week. Scientists believe the almost-complete fossilised skeleton belonged to a previously-unknown type of early human ancestor that may have been a intermediate stage as ape-men evolved into the first species of advanced humans, Homo habilis.

Like with other statements from scientists that believe in the evolution of man, again we have the 'we believe and may have'. This certainly isn't the first time and I think it's quite hypocritical of evolutionists to roar over articles that are nothing more than what a scientist believes and guess work.

Originally posted by _boneZ_

And they created us in their likeness and image.

That is the Holy Trinity. All three were active in the creation. One God, 3 persons.

And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:2

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Gen 1:26 & Gen 1:27

The holy trinity is further shown with the Lord physically walking and talking to Adam & Eve in the garden. The apperance to Abraham, to Isaac, the physical placement of Moses in the cleft of the rock.

Proverb 30 also reveals the trinue God.
Proverb 30:1-4

The Wisdom of Agur
1 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, his utterance. This man declared to Ithiel—to Ithiel and Ucal:


2 Surely I am more stupid than any man,
And do not have the understanding of a man.
3 I neither learned wisdom
Nor have knowledge of the Holy One.
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

Isaiah 44:6

6 “ Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:

‘ I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

Compared to Revelation 22:12-17

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker8300

Originally posted by brainwrek

The new species of hominid, the evolutionary branch of primates that includes humans, is to be revealed when the two-million-year-old skeleton of a child is unveiled this week. Scientists believe the almost-complete fossilised skeleton belonged to a previously-unknown type of early human ancestor that may have been a intermediate stage as ape-men evolved into the first species of advanced humans, Homo habilis.

Like with other statements from scientists that believe in the evolution of man, again we have the 'we believe and may have'. This certainly isn't the first time and I think it's quite hypocritical of evolutionists to roar over articles that are nothing more than what a scientist believes and guess work.

Originally posted by _boneZ_

And they created us in their likeness and image.

That is the Holy Trinity. All three were active in the creation.

And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:2

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Gen 1:26 & Gen 1:27

The holy trinity is further shown with the Lord physically walking and talking to Adam & Eve in the garden. The apperance to Abraham, to Isaac, the physical placement of Moses in the cleft of the rock.

Proverb 30 also reveals the trinue God.
Proverb 30:1-4

The Wisdom of Agur
1 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, his utterance. This man declared to Ithiel—to Ithiel and Ucal:


2 Surely I am more stupid than any man,
And do not have the understanding of a man.
3 I neither learned wisdom
Nor have knowledge of the Holy One.
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

Religious dogma has nothing to do with this thread, take it elsewhere.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Religious dogma has nothing to do with this thread, take it elsewhere.

It's nothing about religious dogma for me, it is about the truth. It is about religion for you secular humanists. S.H is a religion. The motto of this site is deny ignorance. He said something that is out of ignorance and I am giving the truth. The attack on God and his children began with the OP's first post.

Originally posted by brainwrek
Wonder how the religious types who claim the planet is only a few thousand years old will respond to this.

You cannot believe in the evolution of man and believe in God for God is perfect and makes no mistakes.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker8300

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Religious dogma has nothing to do with this thread, take it elsewhere.

It's nothing about religious dogma for me, it is about the truth. It is about religion for you secular humanists. S.H is a religion. The motto of this site is deny ignorance. He said something that is out of ignorance and I am giving the truth. The attack on God and his children began with the OP's first post.

Originally posted by brainwrek
Wonder how the religious types who claim the planet is only a few thousand years old will respond to this.

You cannot believe in the evolution of man and believe in God for God is perfect and makes no mistakes.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

It doesn't matter what you think it is, it's irrelevent to the thread topic, take it to the religion forum.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

It doesn't matter what you think it is, it's irrelevent to the thread topic, take it to the religion forum.

I'm not going to argue with you, I was not wrong for my reply and you're not going to single me out. I don't answer to you and so I'm not going to let you tell me what to do. Also, no it is not irrelevant. Religion has everything to do with the so called evolution of man and God creating man.




[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker8300

Originally posted by hippomchippo

It doesn't matter what you think it is, it's irrelevent to the thread topic, take it to the religion forum.

I'm not going to argue with you, I was not wrong for m reply and you're not going to single me out. I don't answer to you and so I'm not going to let you tell me what to do.

This whole thread has been derailed by the petty religious attacks, on both sides of the argument.
Can we just discuss the amazing scientific find?

Originally posted by hippomchippo

This whole thread has been derailed by the petty religious attacks, on both sides of the argument.
Can we just discuss the amazing scientific find?

Sure, I am all for that type of discussion. I enjoy real history, and real science.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by abecedarian
Why does it have to be an "either/or" choice between evolution and creation? I find it equally plausible that evolution is the means of creation and the timeline was not measured by our current definition of years.

For the sake of argument, if the Old Testament were written by men why would it be necessary to explain every step of how man was created from dust need explained in the books / scrolls, when the important aspect is that we and everything else "were" created from dust, star dust if you will? Isn't that, in essence, what evolution seeks to explain: "how" we were created- the jump from simple molecules to complex life forms?

The great fallacy, in my opinion, is the confusion surrounding the definition of years. According to Relativity, time is experienced differently based on the frame of reference. Is it not possible that to someone outside of the Universe, our evolution took place in ~6500 of their years, while to us inside the expanding Universe, it took nearly 14 billion years?

And for the record, I'm not religious. I just have an open mind.

I agree with you for I see Adam as the point in man's history that man finally became man. Does it really matter how? God could just as easily started a single cell life form on a 4 billion year course to make man, or he could have waved a magic wand...I guess, but in any case both sides want to find a start for man, and so to say Adam as the first man or the missing link are one and the same.

One other point too is modern man is not much older than 6000 years old when one talks in terms of civilization.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

I could not agree with both of you more.
Bare in mind that Noah was supposed to have lived for 900 or so years.
I think the Chinese counter parts lived in similar long life spans and believed in the judgement of individuals by these supernatural Gods/Emperors .
Science today is merely ----better tools and thousands of years of developmental evolution.
It's all good except for the bashers.

Chinese sovereign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It may have been used in the Xia and Shang dynasties, where oracle bones ... The theory behind this was that the Chinese emperor acted as the "Son of Heaven. ... to lead) everyone else in the world as long as he served the people well. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_sovereign -

It is interesting that this did not change until the concept of Communism.
If nothing else these gods were the missing link between the history of man and man's pre-history.

have you read what the old testament said about the angels (sons of god)

skeptics that believe the bible , believe in creationism but not evolution
yet they will deny that we are hybrids but believe we are ++made++ in gods image we are the link of the hominid and the heavenly beings from Jewish/Christian religion to Greek/Roman Norse myths Zeus's and Odin's love child's with mortal woman

Genesis Chapter 6, verses 1 through 4 mentions Nephilim: Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

en.wikipedia.org...

we are the diluted version of the nephilim

why have these Skulls not been thoroughly DNA tested ? www.world-mysteries.com...


have you seen these videos at all ?

Mr pye makes some perfect sense that is hard to be in denial

we are 46 from 48 chromosomes with the 2 fused to cross breed with the

Annunauki , Sons of god , Angels etc.. some other alien race

with the big well known trio races White Black Asian

Human Anunnaki Anthropology - Lloyd Pye
www.youtube.com...

Lloyd Pye - Ancient Genetic Engineering
www.youtube.com...
well if you don't want to see Lloyd Pye's view how about coast to coast view

Interracial Alien Genetic DNA Manipulation



tool = 46 and 2 en.wikipedia.org...
www.youtube.com...






[edit on 4-4-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Wolfenz]

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

Think about what you're saying. A single-celled organism that is not specialized ie. it doesn't only DO one thing like skin or muscle or liver, it does everything, has a change in genes that means that when it spilts into two cells, one of them will go on to specialize in something like muscle and the other one will specialize in something else like lungs and then those two will somehow also mutate so that they split and specialize even further into blood cells, brain cells, liver, pancreas, etc. etc. We are talking about huge changes in the genetic code. By the way, I'm assuming that a multi-cell organism would be an animal. If you assume a plant instead, it's just as bad because plants are made up of specialized cells too. How does a preliminary multi-cell organism survive if it doesn't have all of the specialized types of cells it needs? ie. muscle but no skin...etc. It's seems to me that a multi-celled organism, whether it be a plant or animal has to be an all or nothing kind of deal. Either it's all there and functioning or it's dead before it has a chance to reproduce.

I am no expert but I have figured out a lot about genetics.
Mostly by logic and deduction. Now this would just be a parameter I would look into when trying to figure out the ability to self evolve.
# 1 There would be very little competition compared to today.( bio diversity)
# 2 I really haven't ever considered any difference between plants or animals as I just look at life as LIFE.
The divisions are just man made. Like inventing the zero.
I like where you understanding is at. I am always eager to learn.
Nothing is etched in stone. Well maybe some Phacops Rana's lol

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst


In your face Creationism.

In..... Your....... Face !!!!

Why are you so against the writtings of the Jewish folks.
Are you anti-semetic? Are you a decendant of a monkey?

[edit on 4-4-2010 by Donny 4 million]

Creationism has nothing to do with Jewish people, grow up.

Are you then saying that HEBREWS created the book of Genesis?
Christians certainty did NOT invent the theory of creation and Adam.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker8300

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Religious dogma has nothing to do with this thread, take it elsewhere.

It's nothing about religious dogma for me, it is about the truth. It is about religion for you secular humanists. S.H is a religion. The motto of this site is deny ignorance. He said something that is out of ignorance and I am giving the truth. The attack on God and his children began with the OP's first post.

Originally posted by brainwrek
Wonder how the religious types who claim the planet is only a few thousand years old will respond to this.

You cannot believe in the evolution of man and believe in God for God is perfect and makes no mistakes.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

IMHO the pin point of Creation (let us just stick to life) because that is all evolution can and does deal with.
Now if Evolutionists or atheists or communists or aliens want to discuss or prove CREATION.
Then we/they are all LOST and without evidence or provable legend.
The good news is---- this is where there is common ground. Common ground is where it is at when it comes to evolving. Why not just accept the fact that we have been created by our folks an their folks before them. Sit down and raise a glass of cheer and be thank full and blessed for that amazing privilege.
Your odds of being born are 12536754 squared to the billionth power + one Hail Mary.
Love /Peace create--- Hate / War destroy, Donny

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
The aspect of evolution, which Darwin could NOT explain by the way, is that over time you get a completely new species and the problem with this theory from the point of view of fossils is that there aren't ANY intermediate fossils that are half one thing and half another thing. I'm not just talking about human fossils. I'm talking about ALL fossils. There are thousands of fossils of trilobytes of varying sizes, some longer, some shorter but they're all trilobytes, not half trilobyte and half something else.

There are a couple of flaws with this line of thought. !st, while Darwin is certainly the "father" of evolutionary theory he is not the end all be all. I have two simple words for you- Punctuated Equilibrium while most evolutionary biologists and anthropologists seem to be of an 'either or' line of thinking I refuse to rule out that punctuated equilibrium and phyletic gradualism are mutually exclusive of each other and that they can indeed both occur throughout the history of a species. The 2nd thing I'd like to take issue with here is your" I'm not just talking about human fossils. I'm talking about ALL fossils" assertion. The simple fact is that we do NOT have a complete fossil record. In fact it's estimated that we have fossils for approximately 1% of the total number of species that have inhabited earth in its 4+ billion year history. The conditions required for this type of preservation are very rare. The end result is huge gaps in the fossil record because it is quite simply impossible for every specimen that has perished in its natural habitat to be properly preserved. We often find fossils at sites associated with cataclysm such as volcanic eruptions and flooding because those rare occasions are able to quickly cover and preserve the bodies from both predators and the elements.

Originally posted by StudenofhistoryAfter the mass extinctions that happened every 65 million years or so, you get an explosion of completely new species but no 'missing links' of any kind.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info from but there are not mass extinctions like clockwork every 65 million years. There are only 4 mass extinctions that we know of in the last 3.5 BILLION years

Originally posted by StudenofhistoryThe problem with Evolution is that it's proponents point to it's successes like micro-evolution and ignore it's failures like missing links.

see above for the answer to this

Originally posted by StudenofhistoryTake apes and humans. All apes have 48 chromosomes. Humans have 46. Evolutionists would have you believe that somewhere, somehow an ape-ancentor was born with only 46 chromosomes and was somehow able to mate with a 48 chromosome partner to produce a whole new race of 46 chromosome offspring ie. humans. There is another identical situation that demonstrates how ludicrous this is.

All apes do NOT have 48 chromosomes. Humans are apes along with gorrillas, chimps, bonobos and oranguatangs. What most people seem to be having a terribly difficult time grasping is that Humans are NOT descended from apes, that the 5 great apes listed above have a COMMON evolutionary ancestor that existed between 7 and 10 million yrs ago. I'm not even going to touch the donkey with a 10 foot pole as this has already been covered far better than I would have.

Originally posted by StudenofhistoryI wish I could remember the name of a Nobel prize-winning scientist, who said that if the theory of evolution were tested the same way with the same rigor as any other scientific theory was tested, it would fail miserably.

I wish you could too. I'd love to know who said that.



[edit on 4-4-2010 by peter vlar]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by peter vlar]

[edit on 4-4-2010 by peter vlar]

Originally posted by peter vlar
All apes do NOT have 48 chromosomes. Humans are apes along with gorrillas, chimps, bonobos and oranguatangs. What most people seem to be having a terribly difficult time grasping is that Humans are NOT descended from apes, that the 5 great apes listed above have a COMMON evolutionary ancestor that existed between 7 and 10 million yrs ago. I'm not even going to touch the donkey with a 10 foot pole as this has already been covered far better than I would have.

I heard a rumour that there is more human DNA in a banana than there is in a chimpanzee!