Why are people such simpletons?

I don't really understand this. I was talking to a friend of mine from one of my classes after class. I told him how I didn't really believe in religion or organized religion. We got into a debate about simplicity.

He believed that the world is really simple and that he thought that everything happened for a reason- and that the reason is God. I didn't agree with him, and, I gave multiple reasons for denying that, and, saying that this hypothetical God doesn't control everything, and, that reality is much more complicated than he makes it out to be.

I still am thinking back on that debate I had. This was a college student I was debating with and he was probably around my age. He seemed like a relatively intelligent person to me. But he thought the world was incredibly simple. I don't think that it's simple at all. I think there are a lot of underlying complexities to what seems like simple problems, and, that situations are a lot more complex than we think they are when we first examine them.

Even with basic problems, like politics, like you think it's really simple. There are simple truths underlying complicated problems- or so it seems. But... I think that things are far more complicated than most people care to appreciate unless they take the time to look at them more seriously. I think that my friend is probably like many other people... they think simplicity is good, and, that's how things ought to be. Things ought to be simple. But knowing my personal experience, and, knowing what I know about the world- a lot of what's simple, really is far more complicated than you could ever imagine at first, and, like a lot of things are deceiving and not straight-forward... or stuff like that.

But I really can't see why so many obviously well-educated people would like to believe the world is just a simple place. I don't see how so many people could fool themselves into believing that. Does anyone know why? It doesn't make sense to me why people would rather see the world in black and white rather than see the world for how it is.

maybe the world is a simple place. maybe you are wrong.

maybe he has enough troubles in his life to worry about.than to think about these things.



[edit on 3-4-2010 by MR BOB]

People don´t want to see the underlying complexities in simple problems because they´re just that, "simple problems" with simple solutions.

Reality in itself is complex, our subjective perception of reality is, in true not.

I would like to think that the world is both simple and complex depending on how we look at it.

[edit on 3/4/10 by Bildeberg]

Reality is complex. So is God. Why does it bother you that your friend believes in Power greater that himself? Belief, (or non-belief), is a choice.
If your friend chooses to believe, and it makes his life simpler, who are you to question him? Or he, you?

reply to post by Bildeberg


I guess I would probably agree with you. My friend made the mistake of assuming everything is simple. I think we probably don't know all there is to know. I think in certain cases we know a great more deal than we think we do- when the situation is far more simpler than it is. But to say that reality is just simple... and everything happens because of God, I think that's just oversimplifying things a bit and ignoring what free-will we have to make decisions.

reply to post by kettlebellysmith


He was the one telling me that reality is simpler. He wasn't just trying to tell me his beliefs. He was trying to convert me to a theistic view of the world and that's one of the arguments he was giving to me to try to "show me the light" so of course, naturally I would question it.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by Frankidealist35]

Everything is simple. Look at the theory of general relativity. Einstein knew it was coorect before it was proven because it was so beautifly simple.

I think the theory of everything will be equally as beautiful.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
But I really can't see why so many obviously well-educated people would like to believe the world is just a simple place. I don't see how so many people could fool themselves into believing that. Does anyone know why?

Probably because if you make it over-complicated it becomes hard to make enough sense out of it, to judge what you should be doing.

I like to keep things simple. I know things could be endlessly complicated if we analyzed every little minutia, and at least half the beauty of the universe comes from exposing finer details to things. Einstein said he wanted to know God's thoughts, and that everything else was just the details. As complicated as everything is, it branches off from very simple and elegant truths.









In the fractals above you'll see a simple underlying shape that is fundamental to the complexity of the entire fractal. Even though each one can reach to infinite detail, and be infinitely complicated, as long as you want to continue the expansion, everything is also already determined in a way from the basic underlying shape of the entire fractal. In this way I think both "free will" and "fate" exist, in that some things are going to happen anyway to fit the grander order of the scheme of things, but the details as to how those more definite structural points come into being is always being discovered. For example, you must eventually die, but how that will happen is still up to you. Or maybe it's "fate" that you must answer a phone or door at a specific point in time in order to make another extension of reality possible, but the details as to how you are led to do this are yet to be brought into scope. Those are just thoughts though, off topic and I digress...


Anyway I'm just saying the universe can be and is both complicated and simple. It's just how you want to make it out. If you make it out as simpler than it will be easier for you to grasp things, unless your simplistic understanding is off-base from the fundamental reality. But I don't think it's impossible to distill a simple understanding of the universe that is simultaneously infinitely expansive. For example, realizing that you truly know nothing is one of those expansive truths. Nothing you know, is really 100% true. Not even "grass is green, sky is blue" is always true. "As above, so below" is another simple truth that is almost infinitely expansive. The Tao te Ching linked in my signature below has tons of these sort, simple truths distilled from years of contemplation by a Chinese master.

[edit on 3-4-2010 by bsbray11]

Here's my take on it: simple does not mean easy, knowledge does not mean understanding, thus the complexity.
Human relations demands we consider that motivation and intention lead to obfuscation - thus the complexity.
So in essence, the complexity is a phenomena we experience on the journey from knowledge to understanding. And achieving the realization that Life is really simple (with or without divine providence) - is one of the most difficult. "Inspired" or "Enlightened" maybe??

BUT I must strongly deny "it all happens for a reason" - when human relations are involved the motivation/intention conceals the reason from the actor as well as the other party(ies).

Science - when the human interface to the natural world gets involved - unfortunately incurs a great deal of complexity because instruments measure but human analysis is necessarily biased, perhaps unintentionally, but the additional complexity is unavoidable.

gj

The reality is, whether simple or complex..all in one's individual perception, based on life experience.
Being as all experiences differ, we are all of different believes..including who is right and wrong.

Just deleted my post, despite labouring over it for ten minutes or so

because I could see the comments which had been posted since I began mine

and boy --- they are brilliant

especially bsbray11 and ganjoa, AccessDenied, etc

QUALITY contributions


and my privilege to read them


thank you

reply to post by Frankidealist35



Life is as simple or complex as you want it to be but remember: Those simple of heart will inheret the world

I'm a complex thinker, like you and I it has been stuck in my way for the better part of my life .....

Peace!

You as a human keep things simple and watch how the Earth responds. Amazing things will happen. Who knows what the Heavens would bring if everyone on Earth came into agreement. Wow. If everyone across the planet took a break on consumption.

I don't think people are such simpletons.

Now, if you are talking about conversation, yes education, bad, that would be a simpleton.

When you only do simple things, you end up having a lot of details.

Such as fishing, working on a farm, gathering, or building a simple house. The process of doing all these things becomes aesthetically detailed. The vocabulary used to describe the tools and methods become the details.

People buy so many things and don't know what they are buying. They ignore the details. They read the labels. It is really sad, the popular tv programs and movies, mainstream music. News, commercials, fashion, celebrities, magazine covers...Who are we? We can go watch ourselves on youtube. We are nothing, we are numbers. Consumers. Maybe that simple mentality to consume and eat terrible food and watch tv, and be on the computer, makes our minds too simple.

You have to try and be sane and live your life and be clever. Be original, innovate, and continue to learn. However it is pretty difficult to do with the structure of society nowadays.

Kinda makes you wanna study Social Anthroplogy.

I view the world as a simple place with complex problems.

I also see that these complex problems all have simple solutions.

However you need complex thought to come up with thsoe simple solutions to the complex problems.

In whatever I am doing...when I am trying to solve a problem (simple or complex) and my solution is becoming too complex...I scrap it and start over. And then I always find a better, more simple, solution. It has never failed me yet.

I've always found people's faith in God to be one of the most complex things out there. And why do you care if people are simpletons? Live and let live. I guarantee he has a superior mind and IS a deep thinker in at least one area you are not. Why are people so arrogant? These questions are hard to answer.