The Great Lie is John 3:16

p.s. i suggest typing in the word "God" into the top search box, locating the first verse listed with the word "God" in it, in red, click the little numbers next to the word "God" and read the data. this is what it says


'elohiym


Pronunciation

el·ō·hēm' (Key)

masculine noun

Plural of אֱלוֹהַּ (H433)

Outline of Biblical Usage

1) (plural)

a) rulers, judges

b) divine ones

c) angels

d) gods

2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)

a) god, goddess

b) godlike one

c) works or special possessions of God

d) the (true) God

e) God

======

notice it says plural? 'elohiym is plural for "god" and means "gods"

Gen 1:1 In the beginning 7225 God 430 created 1254 853 the heaven 8064 and 853 the earth 776.

also notice that some words weren't in the original hebrew. as a result, the verse should read:

beginning (or first) gods created heaven and earth.

looking at the root is also helpful. for example, "God" is from 'elohiym, which is plural of 'elowahh, which is from 'el (EL), etc.

source of the verse in question
www.blueletterbible.org...

reply to post by K J Gunderson


There may not be an direct quotes to a link between the two serpents - but the implicationS are there.

The Bible also doesn't mention 'cats' - would that mean they don't exist or aren't here on Earth?

No.

The Bible is thorough on what God wanted to be thorough on - but don't fool yourself into thinking that all there is to know is in the Bible - there are probably a gazillion billion things that we aren't given knowledge to, and that isn't mentioned in the Bible.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Let me try it this way.

Was that serpent also Satan?

Were all of those serpents also Satan? The Lord sent them down afterall.

So my question is...why should I believe that your quote from revelations is referring to the "serpent" in question any more than any of these other quotes?

This is what I was talking about before - some can read the Bible and not understand, some can read it and understand.

If you are only picking up the Bible to try to find, what you consider, "mistakes", or "contradictions", of course God isn't going to allow you to understand.

That is why He said He spoke in parables.

To bottom line it, your question should perhaps be .... "Why am I not understanding this as the believers are understanding it?".

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by undo

 

That is simply your opinion. I am reading the actual text and it says "serpent" and nothing else. Quote from any other book you like to back up your opinion but you cannot show me that I am wrong. I have been asking for a long time. If you really wanted me to shut up and knew I was wrong, you would have posted the text I need to read by now. You have not. No one has. If you and others want to continue to label me as disinfo because I do not agree with your opinion then I am going to spend just as much effort defending it. How about you cease and desist telling me that I am wrong since you cannot back it up with anything and move on?

Maybe you are too focused on 'being right' as opposed to knowing the truth?

Again - a reminder ......... God isn't going to allow a scoffer to understand His Scriptures. You have to seek Him, and His Word, with a genuine willingness to read and learn.

Not just to try to prove you are right.

Originally posted by Gwynniver
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

I see. So god was in his right to punish two people who had no knowledge of good and evil whatsoever, who were not familiar with death and could by no means comprehend what their disobedience meant? And not only were they punished but every human since them? Nothing in this strikes you as amazingly unfair and even sadistic? You would kick your toddler out then after having eaten the forbidden cookie?

You are judging God on how He should react to how *you* or "mankind" would react.

He is God - He knows exactly how to react in any situation - even if we humans sometimes do not understand His logic.

God's ways are not our ways, remember that - we discipline our children on an "earthly parental" scale - He disciplines us on a Godly eternal scale. Death to him is not like it is to us. When a loved one dies, we go to pieces, because we are sad.

When a loved one dies, God is bringing one of His children back home - Earth is not our permanent home, it never was meant to be. Heaven is our permanent home - but only if choose to follow God and His laws.

If not, then yes, if He has to, He created hell for the ones of us that choose to reject Him.

We are human, with a human mind - to us, death is a permanent end - because we miss the person who died - but God just looks at is as bringing us home.

It sounds like you are thinking with a human mind - which you should be - because we are all human. But you have to remember, God is not human. And again, His ways are not like our ways. I don't know exactly how all of His ways are, but if you think about it - He created us, Earth and the gazillonbillion other "things" out there - mankind has no clue to what all is out there that we don't know.

And no, I don't see anything "sadistic" about that at all - just as I don't see anything "sadistic" about an earthly parent having to discipline their child for misbehaving or getting out of line.

Originally posted by Gwynniver

If that is in fact the case, then how can the bible have ANY validity?

THIS might be good reading if you want an answer to your question.

Just some background history on the Bible, and all of the modern day "versions" that have been written.

It is all subjective in the end...

No matter what the language….. it is all a matter of personal interpretation of any of the writings....

The only way to know… is to find the source outside your experience at present…. ie outside this Sory or World...to get the true meaning...

All that is written is second hand….

And is also subject to the translation of the writers ideas into whatever writing or language in the First place.

Language is more than just words...

What the writer means… and what the reader interprets,…..are 2 entirely different things...

It is impossible to define any writing, in a way that is identical to the writers inspiration in the first place, as even the writer is subject to their own interpretation of their inspiration...

Even what I write, will Not be understood… in the same way I understand… or for that matter the same as what I have seen…. even I am interpreting what I have witnessed (seen).

The only thing that remains Unchanged is what I have witnessed or seen….

But my interpretation shall forever change…. Just like everyone else’s…

It is called development....

[edit on 25-3-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

GOD didnt create evil lucifer did God just created free will ......God created the possiblity to have evil when he gave his highest chior of angels the will of freedom....Lucifer was the creator of evil! Lucifer upon being given freewill decided to go against GOD so in his mind upon making that choice he create evil in his mind first and through his actions second. So you cannot blame GOD for the gift of freewill...would you blame your parents for giving you a ferrari for graduation, and you go and get into a wreck going 100 mph over the speed limit??? No because you like satan new what you were doing because you had the freewill to make the choice in the first place!!!!!

reply to post by nomorecruelty
Your replies are outstanding! Thank you!!!

reply to post by Chaingangcertifiedent


"Free will" comes from the Algorithm of the PARADOX.... The Opposites (all things have their Opposites that is The PARADOX) Created by God through J.C.

In the Bible it is written that ALL things Not some... but ALL was Created by God through J.C.

Not my Words but I agree with them...

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Maybe you are too focused on 'being right' as opposed to knowing the truth?

Again - a reminder ......... God isn't going to allow a scoffer to understand His Scriptures. You have to seek Him, and His Word, with a genuine willingness to read and learn.

Not just to try to prove you are right.

You seem to have that completely backwards. I am only looking for the truth. This is why I am referring to the actual text instead of doing what you are doing and PRETENDING it says things that are not actually put down in words.

I am reading the words written and getting my facts from there. You have only been able to use other books so far and I showed that I can make my point by doing the same thing. Serpent is all kinds of things depending on which book you are reading so I am just looking at one book all by itself. Since the bible is not a series but a collection of varied works, unless one specifically references the other, you are just assuming.

I refuse to guess, assume, or just make things up in order to have it mean things it does not actually say. I would suggest that if you are interested in the truth, you stop trying so hard to find any path to being right you can and just look at the words like I am.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Let me try it this way.

Was that serpent also Satan?

Were all of those serpents also Satan? The Lord sent them down afterall.

So my question is...why should I believe that your quote from revelations is referring to the "serpent" in question any more than any of these other quotes?

This is what I was talking about before - some can read the Bible and not understand, some can read it and understand.

If you are only picking up the Bible to try to find, what you consider, "mistakes", or "contradictions", of course God isn't going to allow you to understand.

That is why He said He spoke in parables.

To bottom line it, your question should perhaps be .... "Why am I not understanding this as the believers are understanding it?".

The bottom line is that apparently you can not answer my question.

I asked a perfectly logical question that could easily be answered by anyone that does indeed understand that bible. I would think that as a Christian, you would feel obliged to help me understand what you understand.

You seem to be refusing to even try though. Please answer my question or admit you just are not sure.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

There may not be an direct quotes to a link between the two serpents - but the implicationS are there.

Then why is it impossible for you to point them out? How long have we been going over this? I honestly thought it was a simple concept that could be cleared up with one post. If the bible makes it clear that the serpent in Genesis is indeed Satan, the just stop all this nonsense and show where it says that in any way at all.

The Bible also doesn't mention 'cats' - would that mean they don't exist or aren't here on Earth?

No.

That has nothing to do with anything I said. I did not say that the lack of something in a story meant it did not exist. I am simply pointing out that we have a story about beasts. One of those beasts is a serpent. It is very clear. Anyone claiming that serpent is Satan is just guessing or assuming based on nothing and you have done an excellent job of proving that in many many posts.

The Bible is thorough on what God wanted to be thorough on - but don't fool yourself into thinking that all there is to know is in the Bible - there are probably a gazillion billion things that we aren't given knowledge to, and that isn't mentioned in the Bible.

Not sure why you think you have seen the bible as your god wanted it seen. It was written by men, put together by men, and translated many many many times by men. Is any many perfect?

If You are going to talk of Dragons...

Then check this out first...

www.crystalinks.com...

But the are many other places on the internet you can find out what different cultures think about Dragons and Serpents...


[edit on 25-3-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

i'd love to go check that dragons out....also, about the king james version...
i think we need it because the other more modern versions leave out the blood of Jesus (Yahushua) importance as if they need it to go away, but mainly, the other versions leave out about 6500 words, generally. as if something is a thorn in the side of an entity that hates the blood of Jesus. i'm going off to look at the dragons!

[edit on 25-3-2010 by GBP/JPY]

reply to post by GBP/JPY


BINGO You are onto it....

Originally posted by GBP/JPY
i'd love to go check that dragons out....also, about the king james version...
i think we need it because the other more modern versions leave out the blood of Jesus (Yahushua) importance as if they need it to go away, but mainly, the other versions leave out about 6500 words, generally. as if something is a thorn in the side of an entity that hates the blood of Jesus. i'm going off to look at the dragons!

[edit on 25-3-2010 by GBP/JPY]

Yeah because I was already shown some huge mistakes I made by reading the wrong bible. Like in my bible where it said homosexuals should be put to death, I was correctly shown that in the KJV it actually just says that homosexuals should be put to death.

I was also shown the huge mistake in the bible I read where it said in Exodus that witches should be stoned. That was way off. It did not say that at all until a verse later where it said exactly that. Obviously being off a verse number changes everything.

reply to post by johnny max


Fully in the spirit of this thread, may I ask you how often this tactic helps to bring someone close to the lord?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


KJ, if you click on johnny max and go to the profile you will see he is likely one of your opponents. He or she signed up on the 25th just to bash you. If you can't debate fairly just hit and run. The mods should delete that member instantly.