Tea *Party Goers* Go Overboard, Threaten Gun Violence Over HCR

Originally posted by AwakeinNMYou're kidding me, right? You are simply repeating what you heard on Chris Matthews or whatever MSM outlet. You really are unaware of what is going on , so I am going to accept the fact that some of you are just not getting it. You're obviously anti-Republican, a mindset that will serve no purpose going forward.


edit to fix quote.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by AwakeinNM]

Matthews I cannot stomach to watch...I think its the laugh and the talking over everyone endlessly.

I am fully aware as to what is going on, have been lately, have been in 2000, and started becoming aware in the clinton years.

Am I anti republican...hmm..as the republican party stands today, then yes. I am very socially liberal..extreme social liberal. Fiscally I am middle of the road but I like conservative aspects. Pay/go makes complete sense to me.

As far as a non republican mindset not being useful in moving forward, well thats sort of the point...the republicans actions in their concept of forward is not in a direction I want the country to move in and will vote against such potential theocracys always. Thats my right, thats my ideals. I dont want state sanctioned religion, or the federal government deciding which bad words to censor on paid tv, I am tired of a preoccupation with massive wars and crime/punishment fascination with little to no research done to justify measures. I cannot fight giant corporations destroying the environment myself so I must rely on the government to slap them and force them to clean up.

Your right...I will not help your agenda moving forward.

Originally posted by shogun12
Fifty years of brainwashing in the schools and by the liberal media has turned people who tell the truth into "haters" which we are not.

FattyZ

Examining the liberal media claim:
SOURCE
and an quick blurb:

The findings include:


•On select issues from corporate power and trade to Social Security and Medicare to health care and taxes, journalists are actually more conservative than the general public.


•Journalists are mostly centrist in their political orientation.


•The minority of journalists who do not identify with the "center" are more likely to identify with the "right" when it comes to economic issues and to identify with the "left" when it comes to social issues.


•Journalists report that "business-oriented news outlets" and "major daily newspapers" provide the highest quality coverage of economic policy issues, while "broadcast network TV news" and "cable news services" provide the worst.

The liberal bias has and always will be a red herring. Reporters report on stories, stories are often extremes of the norm, and often these stories bring up debate which people are overall compelled to think progressively. News tends to broaden ones horizons and that is the overall view of what the core liberalism is to begin with...a bigger picture thinking about things like civil rights, environment, etc.

The news, if anything, has a ignorance bias...they dont tell much backstory and can feel light in the facts because they dont spend a couple hours discussing the complexities of each story discussed...they tend to simply piggyback stories onto other stories.

As far as education is concerned...I simply fail to see how learning math or science is somehow brainwashing anyone...unless your a creationist whom thinks a bible is the only book required to give a well founded education.

reply to post by warisover


I think protesting the govt is the most American thing a person can do, with our govt going the way it's going I would say it's necessary to have your voice heard. how else would your rep in DC know what the masses think. the founding fathers put the 2nd amendment in the bill of rights to help us defend our way of life and to keep the govt under control. if we do not take to the streets and put a little fear into them, they will surly take away every right that we have.

There is room for reasonable people to disagree on HCR. There are many reasonable people, including economists, who have doubts as to whether the CBO is correct in that the HCR bill will reduce the deficit. There are many reasonable people who question whether the tax burdens the HCR bill imposes will outweigh the benefits.

There is no reasonable person, however, who can see the passage of HCR as a reason to initiate any sort of violent overthrow of the government. At its very worst, this bill cuts into the profits of insurance companies and drug makers. This bill is not about the government taking your home. Sure, there is the added burden of requiring everybody (except low income people) to buy health insurance, but that is something that all you *Snip* have already have.....right?!

The sad thing about this episode in American history is that the health insurance lobby was really effective. They realized there were millions of people who were generally angry. They tapped into that anger and channeled it at Obama. Now that the fight is over, it is time to shut the anger off.

(2) Alterations of a politicians name, or any other high-profile political figure, for disparaging political effect is not allowed, including within member avatars and signatures.

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)


[edit on 3/21/2010 by semperfortis]

reply to post by Misoir


You need to do a little more research about the Tea Parties and their history. The protests have been going on since 2003 at least. I have been going since 2006.

The Tea Party did not suddenly spring into existance when Obama came to power.

The original issue was out of control government spending, then anmesty for illegal aliens, then TARP, then tax and spend and Cap and Trade, and then this current bill.

Deny ignorance, don't spread it around.

What makes the people threatening violence representative of Republicans and "Tea Party" members?

Google "agent provocateur".

I wonder why the picture was removed from the op? does anybody know?

Am I allowed to ask without getting my post deleted?

reply to post by genius/idoit


I think that you would've made the same post as the OP if the democrats had turned up with the same signs at the protests against the Bush administration.

Hi, I wrote this last night and decided to think it over awhile. It represents the culmination of my thinking and study over the course of my life. It is a distillation, and an oversimplification. We find our nation and people divided, now in particular after the passage of HCR. I think dividing us has always been the game plan.

I read somewhere that when my generation graduated from high school, we believed that God was dead and our parents were fools. This is brainwashing, substituting the long standing norm in our country of a reliance on the Judeo Christian ethic with moral relativism and secular humanism. With the benifit of hindsight, I found this to be true. But this is only a simple example. The main concern I have currently when considering any debate, is to establish the core beliefs of the opposition or, the rules of engagement. Simply put, without a belief in "absolute right and wrong" on both sides, there can be no serious debate. If the truth is relative then the rules can be changed to suit the occasion. The belief in "absolute right and wrong" depends on a higher moral authority to whom one is going to to have to be accountable at some point. If there is a way to establish 'right and wrong' without this belief, I'd be interested to know how.

The tea parties are proclaiming that there is a right and a wrong and to say a thing is wrong does not mean you're a racist, bigoted hater, amongst other things, and incapable of love.
(we're really tired of hearing that)

The truth is not relative, the truth is the truth.

FattyZ

Originally posted by warisover
A very disturbing image from a gathering of very disturbed and dangerous individuals:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8228914b122f.jpg[/atsimg]

This is the type of violence that the Republicans and their anti-American supporters have been striving for ever since the Obama Administration took office with the pledge to clean up the GOP's mess.

In attendance and apparently proud to be part of a group of anti-American traitors engaged in seditious behavior were Republican Reps. Steve King (IA), Michele Bachmann (MN), and Mike Pence (IN).

With the advent of signs advocating gun violence if and when HCR passes, however, the rabid fervor of the lunatic fringe takes a very dangerous turn into deep waters, where advocating violent insurrection and fanning the flames of insanity are likely to initiate a powderkeg that just might backfire on them...and on their Republican 'leadership' in Congress.

discuss.epluribusmedia.net...

In case you haven't heard, there was a "tea party" rally on Capitol Hill today protesting against health care reform. I haven't seen it reported of mainstream news yet.

What do you think? Are theses protesters going too far? Is it anti-American to protest the government?

(2) Alterations of a politicians name, or any other high-profile political figure, for disparaging political effect is not allowed, including within member avatars and signatures.

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)


[edit on 3/21/2010 by semperfortis]

whats wrong with that? when you reach the end of the road Action is the only answer, When the colonies had enough of the Tyranny of England they took it upon themselves knowing the full reprucussions of their actions that led to war. I don't think we're there yet but we're getting close. it was once said by Thomas Jefferson a little revolution now and then is a good thing.

This is pure propaganda - and should be be seen for what it is.

No-one has done anything violent, not that there is no justification - but unless they turn out in extremely large numbers with guns - then it is a waste of time.

The main stream media and republicans are trying to politicize and hijack the tea party movement - from its inception it was never right or left, rather simply a group of people angry at a government who failed to listen and respond.

The tactic of usurping it and then derailing it is nothing new - government agents infiltrate, then promote violence to discredit it. Additionally the media claim it belongs within the existing left right paradigm, this is to usurp any internal leadership and allow the takeover by the controller scum.

People should not buy into this rubbish - it is pure propaganda and control methods. The tea party movement was legitimate, to continue to be legitimate it must divorce itself from left and right, and throw out any members who promote actions that will discredit the movement.

Remember, the controllers own public opinion through the media - so it is an uphill battle against the lies, slander and undermining attacks.

Originally posted by shogun12

This is brainwashing, substituting the long standing norm in our country of a reliance on the Judeo Christian ethic with moral relativism and secular humanism. With the benifit of hindsight, I found this to be true. But this is only a simple example.

The main concern I have currently when considering any debate, is to establish the core beliefs of the opposition or, the rules of engagement. Simply put, without a belief in "absolute right and wrong" on both sides, there can be no serious debate. If the truth is relative then the rules can be changed to suit the occasion.

The belief in "absolute right and wrong" depends on a higher moral authority to whom one is going to to have to be accountable at some point. If there is a way to establish 'right and wrong' without this belief, I'd be interested to know how.

The tea parties are proclaiming that there is a right and a wrong and to say a thing is wrong does not mean you're a racist, bigoted hater, amongst other things, and incapable of love.
(we're really tired of hearing that)

The truth is not relative, the truth is the truth.

FattyZ

You're opinion is unfortunately the norm, and I feel is part of the reason why people are incapable of critical thinking.

Firstly, truth is personal and subjective, it is the basis of belief. People believe things because they are of the misguided opinion that truth is absolute, generic and part of the fabric of reality.

It certainly does not appear to be so.

If we regard science as a method to establish what is, and what is not - we find an interesting paradox. To establish something as being true - we need to collect evidence. If we find evidence that causes a particular theory to fail, then we can say the theory is wrong or incomplete.

However no amount of evidence can prove that something is correct. This is because there is an infinite number of ways for something to fail, but only one way for it to be correct.

So we must first discount all of the infinite ways something can be wrong before we are left with proof it is correct. Of course, doing an infinite number of tests, and collecting an infinite amount of data is impossible for finite creatures.

If then, belief is founded upon truth - we can immediately see that its foundation is unsteady, and by no means secure.

Therefore to more wholly distinguish right from wrong, we have to move beyond truth and belief - we must understand. Understanding is being able to collate as much data as possible into a working framework - this we could call a theory of reality.

It is not dependent on belief, or truth - but rather simply on the knowledge that we have to do the best with the senses and evidence that we have.

Then we have to ask upon what basis we divide thought, action and principle into right (just and moral) and wrong (unjust and immoral).

Without going into the justification, we can assume the highest morality is to preserve life at its highest level - life that is empowered, abundant, free and healthy.

We also must realize we are going to make an arbitrary judgment, that human life is the highest order of life, and the most important. Whether or not this is a 'universal truth' is not significant, because we belong to that species it is difficult to avoid the bias, and it is the judgment we make that makes the most sense to us. A simple justification might be that because we have the power to control the environment, then we must have the power to preserve it - therefore as the ultimate power for good - we must therefore promote our own survival in order to ensure the survival of the whole.

To put this in simple terms, right is the greatest benefit to life, in the widest context.

However, the entire world therefore must be encompassed to define morality.

Everything around us is required for the survival of our species, and every living thing contributes to it. Therefore a judgment of right and wrong must encompass both the human species, every other living thing - and the environment that supports them.

I think that individuals have a conscience that tells us this is so - I feel that even if we sometimes lack the intelligence to determine the greatest good, we can still make fairly good judgments in that regard, without the need for complex laws, religious books, superstitious rules or the commands of authority.

It is my opinion, it is my theory - it is not the truth, nor should it be considered the basis for a belief.

On the other hand, to dismiss it is to discount the ample evidence of our senses.

If right and wrong are based on Christian values, then non Christian countries, and atheists should be incapable of determining right from wrong - but we can see many functional societies today which are largely atheist, or non Christian whom have working systems of law and high levels of social justice.

To judge the world by our own truth is to remain ignorant, to truncate our own understanding, and to breed intolerance and bias.

Originally posted by ventian
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Ok, so you will remain to have your free speech at anti war establishments but these people should be shut down because one of them may go haywire and kill someone? Obviously you just disagree with what they say and therefore you believe that they shouldn't express their views. While I disagree with the way this movement has gone I still think its principles (the way it started) should be noted. You will have to explain to me these peoples mental makeup that makes them more of a threat than the anti war crowd. Personally I think they are one and the same. Both sides have been extremely careful not to make themselves look bad and botht like you and me. They are no more at risk of killing than any of us are. While I don't think they should ever resort to violence, some of them may. Those pics I posted definitely prove that this country is polarized on both sides. Another thing before i go, were those pics I posted taken out of context or something? They are holding up signs wanting the president dead. If a teaparty person did this they would shout about it on the MSM until 2018.

First off, the Tea group started to carry guns to Presidential rallies, then
spewing racist and anti-gay rhetoric at Conventions (which to me personally looked like a KKK Rally but repackaged) , next it was threatening and calling highly respected Congressmen and Congresswomen by Anti Gay and racist remarks, now it's 2 US House Of Representatives offices attacked.

This darn group is escalating. It is a matter of time before they kidnap and kill someone. Street Gangs are shut down for this very purpose. The negative impact against the community. There is a very fine line between "Freedom Of Speech" and committing a legitimate act of terrorism. If the office attacks are found to be lone wolves by law the entity that put the thought into the person's head is complicate with not only the facilitation but the commission of the crime. Say I tell you to go kill someone and you do it. You and I both can be held accountable even though I did not physically carry out the crime. Words don't kill people, it's what the people do with the words that means the world. Whats next, a school getting shot up? This group clearly has way too many unstable elements not to warrant no attention or monitoring. When does the lynchings begin?

Where was the Sergeant At Arms of The US House Of Representatives when all of this egging on was going on? Where was The US Capitol Hill Police when these Congresspeople were leaving the grounds? Why does a simple 16 yr old kid get arrested for bias crimes for asking all African Americans to leave a WM in NJ but these dingbats and Anti American fools get to do flipping whatever the world they want to? I guess justice is blind to racists!

Racist Republicans have all the rights while us regular Americans have none!

We are nearing the boiling point to the cusp of The Second Civil War and those in charge want to do is twiddle their thumbs hoping it happens. Truly despicable.

If Sarah Palin is the future of the party then this must be the red headed stepchild whose kept away from family functions. If this is the absolute best of the party then not only they but the rest of us are doomed.

They are becoming militant.

Originally posted by warisover
A very disturbing image from a gathering of very disturbed and dangerous individuals:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8228914b122f.jpg[/atsimg]

This is the type of violence that the Republicans and their anti-American supporters have been striving for ever since the Obama Administration took office with the pledge to clean up the GOP's mess.

In attendance and apparently proud to be part of a group of anti-American traitors engaged in seditious behavior were Republican Reps. Steve King (IA), Michele Bachmann (MN), and Mike Pence (IN).

With the advent of signs advocating gun violence if and when HCR passes, however, the rabid fervor of the lunatic fringe takes a very dangerous turn into deep waters, where advocating violent insurrection and fanning the flames of insanity are likely to initiate a powderkeg that just might backfire on them...and on their Republican 'leadership' in Congress.

discuss.epluribusmedia.net...

In case you haven't heard, there was a "tea party" rally on Capitol Hill today protesting against health care reform. I haven't seen it reported of mainstream news yet.

What do you think? Are theses protesters going too far? Is it anti-American to protest the government?

(2) Alterations of a politicians name, or any other high-profile political figure, for disparaging political effect is not allowed, including within member avatars and signatures.

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)


[edit on 3/21/2010 by semperfortis]

The direction of the sun/shadows in the the photo in the quoted article that is the basis of this posting does not match the date/time embedded in the jpg file (March 20th about 4:30PM). The shadow angles indicate the picture was taken sometime around noon (+/- an hour) on the west side of the Capitol. The protest started on he East side and wasn't scheduled to move to the West side until about 1PM. This raises the question of whether the picture was "photoshopped"? The photo was at least edited to re-size it several hours after it was taken.

Was this a false flag operation either through photoshopping the picture or having a "plant" carry a sign to discredit the protesters? Why wasn't the person allegedly carrying this sign?

Didi you see Glenn Beck on TV today? He said the leftists want to provoke violence to discredit the opposition just like the 1960's radicals got discredited when they turned to violence.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by CharlesMartel]

The left is going to accuse the right of all sorts of nasty actions, that if fully investigated will turn out to be not true, totally exaggerated, or the left actually are being culprits in the first place...

The Conservative base of the Tea party movement are not out to wage war on the US government. They are for accountability and transparency of the government, and making sure that those who are elected pay heed to their constituents, or they will be removed and someone else will take their place.

No one in the Tea Party Movement is waving firearms as the answer to anything, and those that accuse them of it, without providing irrefutable proof are the ones trying to stir up trouble.

The signage cannot be believed. It could have been posted by anyone. It could be a photo-shopped con job with the sole intent of pointing the finger of blame at a group who had nothing to do with it.

Someone is going to pop off a shot at someone, and then blame the conservatives for it. This is how anarchy and riots start. Somebody throws a grenade into a crowd, and then says that " I saw that guy from the Tea Party Crowd throw it!" when in fact it was tossed by him...a leftist antagonist!

Any one who posts on ATS that gun violence is the answer to our problems with this out of control, lying, corrupt government is a moron!

Half of the trouble is voters are lazy and do not hold their politicians fully accountable for their voting records, or their kowtowing to special interests=corruption. The other half is that voters are gullible dupes who readily believe the beguiling lying liars of Washington DC.

Therefore, if you want change that will ensure true representative governance, then elect and closely monitor those sent by the voters to do what the people want, and nothing more.

Citizens who want a free lunch and gimme's...will find there is always a hefty price for them in the end; Big bloated government that taxes and spends like a drunken sailor on shore leave in the whore districts...

That is what we have now. A syphilitic puss infested gang of tax whores who run from one special interest bar to the other, all joining in on the cluster bang. They are all guilty of selling their souls for giggles and grins.

The only option we have is to burn down the filthy wharf...i.e. get rid of the untrustworthy lying two faced rat bastards now occupying our congressional offices, and the Oval Office. No one needs to fire a gun at anyone.

I am a Tea Party supporter...and an Independent. I resent someone speaking for me and accusing me of threatening gun violence. Check my posting history. I have NEVER advocated pulling a trigger.

I have supported rousting the rotten politicians from their homes and offices, and send them packing to Timbuktu...with torches at night if necessary to get them to understand that they are out on their asses...but not murdering
anyone. Once you begin lynchings and executions in the streets, then you deserve the hell storm of retribution you will have wrought.

This government is not invincible or impenetrable. It is not an iron clad fortress that cannot be breached. It belongs to us, and we have the power to take out, or sent anyone we want to be our representatives. They are not our overlords and dictators. They work for us. We are their employers. We can fire them for doing a rotten job. It is that simple.

I intend on punching the cards in November, and firing a whole bunch of lying two faced butt-holes.

My firearms will remain where they are; safely secured, unloaded, trigger locked in my gun vault.

The most powerful weapon I have is in my wallet. My voter registration card;
and I know how to use it!

Originally posted by genius/idoit
reply to post by warisover

 

What do you think? Are theses protesters going too far? Is it anti-American to protest the government?

I think you don't mind when obama breaks the law or threatens lawlessness.
I think that sign was hung by some one who is tired of having the government rearrange their prostate.
.Just because mindless, brainless,gutless,clueless obamazombies don't mind being conned doesn't mean the rest of us have bend over and take it.Just because some people are looking for a hand out doesn't mean the rest of us are.

Disgusting parasites.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by genius/idoit]

It would be funny if it wasn't reality.
First, how is being forced to pay for health care so insurance companies can keep their profits considered a hand out? I don't have insurance, don't work for a company that offers it. They aren't giving me medicare/medicaid. But they will fine me $2000 a month if I don't buy insurance. Where is the hand out?
Second, how is putting this country, which by the way got this way because paranoid schizophrenics were afraid of shadow government's boogie men, in martial law so no one has rights - the answer?
All your posturing is doing is rounding up all the Merry FEMA Campers. (Who's got the marshmellows!)
It is a crying shame that no one in this country sees this. May be those that are ushering in this NWO are completely devoid of ...... (you fill it in, I refuse). BTW, how are you taking it up the butt if you are helping those who lied to you about taking it anyway? Oh and who was the one that gave the our Constitution its first shot across the bow? Recall 2001? Why aren't you at his house? Yeah, thought so.
Anyway, welcome to the new EuroAmero! Where the hicks can no longer say anything against their tyrannical government because they can no longer be heard from their plastic containers.

edit: Constitutional to Constitution. I didn't mean to imply that all of us are little %^&*$ LOL

[edit on 25-3-2010 by DaWhiz]

Originally posted by Symbiote
What makes the people threatening violence representative of Republicans and "Tea Party" members?

Google "agent provocateur".

I'm afraid that these people don't need agent provocateurs.
www.cbsnews.com...

I especially love this guy in the man's face yelling you are in the wrong place for a hand out while the other is throwing a dollar at him.

Yes, very informed people.
WWWWoooooWWWWWW