On the Mystery of Lost Books

Superb thread, Serbsta. The loss of information and culture is always tragic, and each of the texts you list is an example of that.

For my part, I'd like to add not a single particular text; thousands upon thousands of no doubt important works were lost in the Lisbon earthquake and fire of 1755. The wikipedia article is a good starting point.

Nearly the entire body of maps, ships' logs and data from the Portuguese navy prior to and during the age of exploration was lost in the disaster, as well as documents covering the Inquisition, the transfer of knowledge from the Arab world to the West, and other aspects of European history. I think it's fair to say that the sum total of information lost forever is probably equivalent to the destruction of the libraries at Alexandria and Baghdad, which you mentioned.

Thanks for starting this discussion.

Nice thread! I've always thought it terrible that so much information and detailed history of mankind was lost through intentional destruction.

Most controversial and perhaps great books were burned with malice to extinguish ideas that at the times of the burnings were politically or religiously "incorrect". The whole notion of archeology (also cultural anthropology) hasn't been around very long. However, one can imagine that the keepers of the Library at Alexandria were keen to preserve ancient texts and understood the importance. Great statues, architectural wonders of the ancient world, and many wonderful artworks have also been destroyed over the centuries and epochs.

I'll add one more angle on this. I believe that in some cases, books or writings were burned just to clean house when no one was interested in them or educated enough to read them. Believe it or not, some uneducated people think books are just in the way, clutter, or just worthless. Apparently, there is an example of this in my own family history. When I was a child, an incident was told to me that occurred in the late 1800s. An aunt told me that there was an extensive library in the family at one time containing perhaps hundreds of books that would have been printed in the early to mid 1800s, but the library was inherited by someone who thought the old books were "just in the way and too old for a 'modern' home. So, all of the old books were burned as trash. Sad, because I would love to have some of those very old books which today would be treasures to own and perhaps rare and worth a lot of money. I mention that story as an illustration that perhaps some of the greatest, lost books like the ones you've mentioned in this thread were destroyed just to 'clean house', you know, 'out with the old, in with the new'.

Anyway, as stated in the above post about Portugal, I'm sure natural disasters have also destroyed great, ancient books, too. Then, you have things like armies in winter burning books to keep warm. I'm sure that's happened a time or two, especially if the books were in a language the soldiers didn't understand.

Sad topic, but highly interesting.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by switching yard]

reply to post by serbsta


I just wanted to say kutos to you, this was an awesome thread and you put it together really really well,keep up the good stuff man!

I don't want to take away from the OP's thread, but I feel that this is relevant to the discussion.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I posted this a while back. It discusses ancient books discovered in Africa.

Edit: It seems the link in my original link no longer exists. I found it somewhere else:

www.alertnet.org...

[edit on 7-3-2010 by captinofcats]

reply to post by serbsta


Wow Serbsta!

Yet another outstanding thread! Love it and keep them coming.

About the Gospel of Eve, I suspect that this might have been amongst the collection of codex found in Nag Hammadi, The Nag Hammadi library.

A lot of those Gospels were burned. Who knows how many books and codex were part of that cash, we may never know sadly.

Originally posted by malakiem
Hi serbstra, do you think there are libraries out there the public doesn't know about that holds banned or other books they don't want the public to read?

There really is no way to know is there?

Based on absolutely no proof I would say that there is. It would just seem juvenile to burn ALL copies of some of the worlds greatest texts no matter how much you want to suppress them. That's just my personal belief though, like I said... based on no evidence. To each his own.

Very cool thread.

Don't forget the lost texts of Manicheanism, which was one of the largest religions on earth during its height and had a reach stretching from Europe to China. Some fragments of their sacred texts remain, many of which are achingly beautiful.

Of all the books which are assumed to be lost or destroyed surely the most interesting might be the book written by Jesus. Imagine what effect such a scroll would have on the Christian faithful ? A book written by Jesus personally. So much of Christianity is based on the Nicean Creed which was founded in 325 AD. In fact that date pre-existed the compilation we know as the Holy Bible. In fact I have concluded after much research and introspection that the Nicean Creed is a religion hostile towards the teachings of Jesus as contained in the Gospels found in the Holy Bible. However the Nicean Creed even still is the theological basis of Christianity. Thus if a book written by Jesus personally were to show up it would surely have a profound effect on Christianity. Perhaps such a book did exist ? Perhaps the Council of Nicea 321 AD destroyed it ? Or is it possible that it is hidden in the underground complex of the Vatican ? More than 99% of the Vatican in Rome is underground. Only a small percentage of the Necropolis and Catacombes are open to the public. What is it that the Vatican do not want us to see ? What are they hiding ?

[edit on 8/3/2010 by CAELENIUM]

Originally posted by serbsta
Throughout history there have been some books which have forever shaped the course of mans destiny. Books such as the Holy Bible, the Noble Qu’ran.

Ok did you actually read the qweeran? What makes it noble in your mind, what makes it even rational? Nothing noble in providing entitlement to kill infidels and take their stuff, unless it's that you can join up and get to kill infidels and take their stuff now, too.
I've no problem discussing possibilities of what doesnt exist, fine time and no worries and discussing fantasy is a fine rorschark test, but a noble qweeran? It is to my mind the most un noble work in print, and I was hoping initially to find something of value in it, what a disappointment, it's essentially a psychotically rambling entitlement manual of how to exploit others for wealth. It's ok to have an opinion once youve learned the subject, but an ignorant opinion is at best an unguided weapon and no good can come of misrepresenting reality.

You did not mention the Mendoza Codex and the mysterious Codex Cardona, it reads like an Indiana Jones story with strange business men, auctions, thefts and even death.

It was recently held anonymously at the Getty museum and Christy's auction house for appraisal and recently vanished with a strange trail of characters including "the architect" Mexican art dealers and a hotel chain owner.

The hunt for it is still on.
www.archaeologydaily.com...

[edit on 8-3-2010 by wtfhuh]

Serbsta... you gotta be my favourite character on ATS! Your threads are fantastic I wish I had time to comment on them all.

As for books that dont exist... I remember hearing of a list of emperors of Japan going back to Amaterasu (sun goddess) that I believe was lost but have not heard of it for a long time maybe its not lost, maybe Im thinking of something else.

Originally posted by Aquarius1
The Gnostic's aka: Pagans filled libraries with their writings, 99.9% have been destroyed, only fragments are left. The Gnostic's were Cosmologists, Shaman's, Remote Viewers and were on the level of Yogi's, they actually mapped the heavens rather accurately and much of what they wrote is only now been validated by modern scientists. They wrote that our solar system was in a Galaxy which Hubble proved in the late nineteen thirties.

Hehe, so how do you know the 99.9% we've never seen was about that?!

Originally posted by CAELENIUM
Of all the books which are assumed to be lost or destroyed surely the most interesting might be the book written by Jesus.

I've always been intrigued by the only place in the bible that Christ is mentioned as writing something -- John 8. It is the passage about stoning the adultorous woman. He is being questioned by officials about the case, and rather than reply at first, he quietly stoops down and begins writing something in the sand/dust with his finger. No mention of what it was...

Don't for get the Sibyline books

Originally posted by Melyanna Tengwesta

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
the Voynich Manuscript

Deff. my favorite manuscript! Too bad it still isn't translated

there's a good chance it has been!

www.edithsherwood.com...

at least it sounds plausible.


on topic, it seems as if we'll a have to expect frequent resurges of book burners, therefore the only way to preserve something is to keep it both simple and universally known. some secret book in a tomb will inevitably be lost, even if only through decay, but when it lives in the hearts of minds of millions it will only die along with humanity.

Originally posted by silent thunder
John 8. It is the passage about stoning the adultorous woman. He is being questioned by officials about the case, and rather than reply at first, he quietly stoops down and begins writing something in the sand/dust with his finger. No mention of what it was...

I have read differant versions of John, one of my favourite gospels. It depends if you look at it in greek, latin and which translation. (way too many years since then for me to accuraetly verbatum quote)

However I do remember reading a version, and I am sure someone will refresh my memory and state the source where it describes jesus drawing the woman and those wanting to stone her. He was described as "coming between" or "standing in front" of her and the approaching crowd.

He stooped down, and drew the woman towards him, drew a line then away from him, then drew the crowd behind the line.

Simple as it was along the lines of:

"and he created in the earth the sinner, then a line of judgement and the essenes"(I think essenes from memory in that version)

The lamb Stood up facing the crowd pointing to the line with his right hand

(left and right seen as mudras and significant, as in he will smite (god) you with his right hand, or gods right hand is held back by love from punishing)

and proclaimed: "let him who has not sinned cross this line and exact punishment"

Well we all know the rest of the story.

I wouldnt take the ommision from the later texts as meaning a lost message, it as far as the earlier versions I read was just a very brief description of him drawing as said above or "creating" and just gives slightly fuller picture than the normal "drew a Line in the sand" later or translated versions.

The Lost gospel of Thomas is most definately the closest to any of the words as actaully spoken by Jesus as written down historically, & closest to the source than any other Gospel.

However even though it is called a "lost" gospel it is now easy to find, unlike the great works described in this thread.

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by kettlebellysmith

I was watching a special on the tube awhile back where a reporter was allowed to look at some of the books and materials stored in the bowels of the Vatican. There are millions of books, scrolls, etc. While he was allowed access to many rooms, there were many more where he was not allowed to venture. Here in the US some of our older universities have library's containing 8-10 million books and materials in open stacks, hidden away, who knows.

Originally posted by Random_Hero10
Great thread OP! This reminds me of George Orwell and the "memory hole." Who knows how many countless pieces of history have been lost because the written accounts of the time conflicted with the current beliefs of the ruling elite.

Exactly, just like anything the big man or big chief/priest sees or reads something that makes him obsolete and/or doesn't fit his world view and orders it destroyed or have it changed where it is he and not someone else who is being referenced in the book. Like the Mayan Codexes, I bet they had information on their that explained all the holes of their history and what they believed the world was like. Something in those Codexes scared the monks that came to that area and saw the rightings. I believe that they where able to read the scripts via the help of the mayan people and once they started to study the codexes it shocked them enough to actually burn every and all codexes of the Maya. Then the Eve book/story, which goes against the man being the one. I'm waiting for the day that some information or document is leaked or dug up that shows what the world was truly like back in this time.

As I have said before, we are a people that have forgotten our history either on purpose or by obfuscation. The zealots both religous and power mad don't want us to see back in time because we may find out our history and forgotten written history is 180 from what has been taught to us.

In medieval Japan, the Samurai leader Oda Nobunaga attacked and burned the ancient temple complex on Mt. Hiei, home to the Tendai school of Buddhism. During the burning, thousands of priceless texts on esoteric Buddhism, among other topics, were lost forever. There is still a substantial Tendai presence on the mountain, but the school never regained the prestige and power it had in the earlier days of Japanese Buddhism, before the advent of more familar (in the western world) forms like Zen.

[edit on 3/8/10 by silent thunder]

Another thought just hit me...what about the Interent itself as a reservoir of information? How many countless pieces of brilliance have disappeared already? Things come and go so quickly, it may be hard for future historians to document our era well because so much of the information is transitory. Sure, there is the Internet Achive, but it doesn't contain all the net has ever thrown up. In 500 years, where will the greatest threads of ATS and other boards be? Today's meme is tomorrow's distant memory.

reply to post by davesidious


The Vatican has the BIGGEST library in the world beneath its city.

You are not being told the correct information.

They will say they have destroyed all the information, but they haven't.

It's all in the Vatican.

Why do you think everyone kisses the pope's ass? (Including Muslims)

The Vatican has information that can ruin Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and every other religion.

This is also another reason why during WW2 the Nazis were told NOT to attack the Vatican, or any other country for that matter was told NOT to attack the Vatican.