The TRUE Evil: The Christian Agenda

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by moocowman

 

Because it did not respond to either of those names. It is possible it could have been something else claiming to be jesus. It could be possible that it was merely a misfiring of synapses and neurons in my brain. That is why i am agnostic. I do not have any way of being certain it was one or the other.

It seems you are left with probabilities,given that the one scenario is scientifically observable and the other thus far not. I would be forced to opt for the more probable misfiring of the synapses of the brain, a delusion.

I rest my case.

And how do you know that is more probable?

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by moocowman

 

I'm sorry but that does not prove he is actually richard dawkins. That could merely be some delusional fellow claiming to be richard dawkins. I already covered this.

And by the same reasoning no one on this planet could "know" whether jesus was real because if he was he could never prove his identity. Any entity claiming or displaying similar attributes could be Jesus whether Jesus existed or not.

However Richard Hawkins does have some very uniquely identifiable attributes that in combination as a whole are near impossible to copy even if he was a twin.

reply to post by moocowman


Attributes such as?

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Originally posted by BillfromCovina
Jesus did not even actually exist. If you read the Bible and then try and verify with history, you will understand.

Imagine this scenario: The year is 4010 and two guys strike up a conversation, while having a beer at the local bar.

Guy 1: "You know, there was once a guy named Bill from Covina"
Guy 2: "That's ridiculous, he isn't mentioned in any historical documents. So, you are wrong. Bill from Covina never existed."

reply to post by moocowman

How are you dude your looking (shiny avatar) and sounding better than when we last spoke. Life improving ?

Not so much improving as it's less stressful. I am slowly detoxing from the life I was leading before. No stress, no craziness, less insane people trying to use me for their own ends.... Just me, 2 cats, a trailer, and cold weather.

While I agree with you on the perversion of Christianity, I must say that there is evil in all walks of life, just as there is justice. Naming all the wrongs Christianity has been responsable for over the years is only one side of the coin. On the contrary, churches make charitable donations, house orphans and generally give hope to those in need. Faith is what some people turn too when they feel unwanted, unloved or for whatever reason, unhappy. Faith can also be a motive for self improvement such as is demonstrated in Freemasonry. Religion can be pinned with all sorts of atrocities, and not just Christianity, but it also bares a somewhat overlooked good side. Reflecting on the history of religion is much like taking a look into human nature; where there is power to be used, some people will seize it. If religion were not around, surely there would be some other vessel through which bed people can do bad things and justify it in their minds. On the other hand, where there is good to be done, some people will do it, and religion, as reluctant as we may be to admit it, offers many many ways of being generally kind.
The bible, as a text, is not evil. it's values are sound and virtues virtuous. It's how we interprite it's meaning that is the problem.

The TRUE Evil: The Christian Agenda

Two quick statistics to disprove the basic premise of the OP.

There are an estimated 2.1 billion "Christians" in the world, approximately 33% of the population.

There are an estimated 160 million "Christians" in the U.S., approximately 76% of the population.

I would think, if there was some sort of "agenda", it would have been easily accomplished with these numbers of conspirators. And, you would have, already, been silenced for your post.

What I see and believe is that there is a conscious effort being exerted here to keep the 'Sheeple' in line, and to subjegate, belittle and/or eliminate those of us who do not run with the flock.

I am going to make an assumption here, (based on your use of American English in your posts) that you are in the U.S. If not, pardon the assumption. If so, consider that every day of your life, all day long, you come into contact with "Christians". 3/4 of those eating in the restaurant, with you, are "Christian". 3/4 of those on the airplane, with you, are "Christian". 3/4 of those who you pass or meet, along the sidewalks, are "Christian". 3/4 of those in the movie theater, with you, are "Christian". Now, how many times a day are you accosted, by a "Christian"? How many times a day is a Bible thrust in your face? In fact, how many times a day does anyone even try to talk to you about any religion, much less "consciously" attempt to "subjugate, belittle and/or eliminate" you?

The entire OP is an extreme generalization, with a flawed foundation. Have people done harm to others, claiming to be following Christianity? Of course. However, what percentage of the whole population of Christendom, participated in those acts? What percentage would even condone such acts?

It really does beg the question of who really has an "agenda". Just here on ATS, how many threads/posts are from "Christians" attempting to silence non-Christians? Now, consider the converse.

I'd really like to ask you to reconsider your OP and opinion. If so, while looking back in history, give honest thought about all of the wars, conflicts, conquests and skirmishes. How many were, actually, in the name of religion? Of all of the current wars and conflicts, how many are in the name of religion?

In reality, is the problem with "Christianity" or any religion? Or, is it the perversion of religion, by a small minority of the adherents or, more appropriately, false adherents?

[edit on 27-2-2010 by WTFover]

reply to post by WTFover


That's basically the point i have been trying to make. Although you did it much cleaner than i did. Still i think given the level of emotion involved on this subject that your logic may end up falling on deaf ears.

Originally posted by moocowman

Not once has a jew knocked my door insisting that should I not bow down and worship Yahweh that I would be tortured for all eternity.

Not once has the same jew come back and asked me for money to help buy a new roof for his gods' synagogue.

Not once has my child walked past a synagogue to see a placard telling him that should he become gay that he would be tortured for all eternity.

Not once has a Muslim gone to my childrens school to attempt to convert them to islam .

Not once has a Sikh stopped me in the street to inform me that I am not happy and don't understand what it means.

Need I go on ?

Not once has a Christian done to me any of those things you implied they do to other people. (Seriously). I have never seen a sign outside any church that says anything like that about Gay People (in my own city or country). The only signs I've seen have been along the lines "The Lord welcomes all to pray and worship" or "Our Lord extends his hand to all those who believe". (Paraphrasing).

It sounds like you are labelling the behaviour of an Extremist minority as being representative of the majority of Christians. Most Christians are like any other people - they want peace, security and prosperity for themselves and their families. Yes, many do go out of their way to preach their beliefs and encourage other people to seek God. As long as they don't cross the line, what is the real harm?

Excellent analysis!

I think Christianity is a death cult, they worship a dead (Jew) on a cross who saved us from the wrath of the a##hole father. What BS, god kills his only son to fix some mistake. Got to get born again to get into heaven to be with him (who wants to be with Jehovah? not me). What's unbelievable is how billions believe this nonsense.

They pay into it, they structure their life around it, they vote for it like GWB twice. Millions dead, depleted uranium spread all over. All because of this evil belief system. We ought to outlaw the Bible because it's a dangerous memetic virus. Fear based belief systems cause war and massive death.

Want to meet Satan? Go to church and meet that charming preacher.

tons of essays on this very topic:

google "death cult memes" or visit

www.blogger.com...

Phishna

Originally posted by phishna
Excellent analysis!

I think Christianity is a death cult, they worship a dead (Jew) on a cross who saved us from the wrath of the a##hole father. What BS, god kills his only son to fix some mistake. Got to get born again to get into heaven to be with him (who wants to be with Jehovah? not me). What's unbelievable is how billions believe this nonsense.

They pay into it, they structure their life around it, they vote for it like GWB twice. Millions dead, depleted uranium spread all over. All because of this evil belief system. We ought to outlaw the Bible because it's a dangerous memetic virus. Fear based belief systems cause war and massive death.

Want to meet Satan? Go to church and meet that charming preacher.

tons of essays on this very topic:

google "death cult memes" or visit

www.blogger.com...

Phishna

Well the same could be said about science. Should we outlaw science too? Oh wait, no one died in the name of science just by the gadgets of science. Let me remind you of what science has to offer:

Nuclear weapons
Guns
Virus'
Mines
Canons
Submarines
Fighter Jets
Cigarettes
Chemicals in cigarettes
Many more.

So don't give me the load about abolishing religion will lead us to Eutopia. You are shifting the blame from humans to a bi-product of humanity.

reply to post by phishna


I, often, ask this question of those who lambaste a Christian's beliefs.

If a person, truly lives their life according to the principles of Christianity, and there is no afterlife or "heaven", what have they lost? However, if upon death, a non-believer discovers the Christian was right, won't he feel a bit silly?

Why the need to try to discourage another's beliefs? Especially when those beliefs give them peace and comfort?

reply to post by Verbiage


Believe it or not, I actually agree.

I am, as a spiritual person, somewhat embittered by the way organized Abrahamic religions,whether it be Judaism,Christianity or Islam, view and treat people like me. However, I do acknowledge the fact that, at least in regards to Christianity, there are good works that get accomplished through that institution.

I must say that my biggest beef with all Abrahamic practitioners is that they are quick to judge the beliefs of others without having any real understanding of what those beliefs are they are condemning. I mean,three-quarters of them that condemn the beliefs of others do not even know the history of their own religion.







[edit on 28-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

Secondly, maybe I do have a personal stake in this. I was duped into 'sheepledom' for many years during my youth, and thus many years of guilt over things that I should have never spent a moment feeling guilty about. So many wasted years not spent in search of Truth, but instead clinging to a Lie. Since then, I have personally been treated like a subhuman by those who cling to the Bible. I have literally been spit upon.

Well well now. Here we have some truth and understanding but is it understood. Like really understood. First of all you say you were duped. That is correct, along with so many of us that clung to or continue to cling to the lie. But you say the very ones who continue to be duped and clinging to a lie treat you subhuman. You call that clinging to the bible? Since when is spitting on someone clinging to the bible. The very ones to profess love your enemy, do good to those who mistreat you, put others above yourself and then spit on you are those that cling to the bible? Did you say you spent many years searching for the Truth? But you can't see that spitting on someone isn't clinging to the bible?

There are places in this country, the supposed home of Freedom, where I dare not express who I am, or what I believe, lest I find myself being dragged behind a pickup truck by a chain. But forget words, they say a picture is worth a thousand of them:

Your words say enough, history speaks for itself, hindsight is 20/20.

All of this is the result of 'Blind Faith'... Sorry, but I will not, and cannot stop myself from fighting this form of ignorance wherever and whenever I find it...

Blind faith yes that is what is followed after but that in itself is as biblical as you being spit on.

What I see and believe is that there is a conscious effort being exerted here to keep the 'Sheeple' in line, and to subjegate, belittle and/or eliminate those of us who do not run with the flock... I see not one, but two PBT that are vying for control of the planet. The one in the Middle Eastern world that uses Islam as it's weapon, and the one of the Western world that uses Christianity as it's weapon of choice.

Interestingly you agree so much with the bible but your Christian background seems to have distorted your view of it. Why would you take the Christians view of the bible, the very ones who you say spit on you, and accept it as truth, and claim they cling to it? Hasn't everything you say about the Christians already been stated would happen in the bible? Is it any wonder that Christianity breaks every commandment that is in the bible that they claim to follow after. It should be no wonder that the bible says there would be an anti-christ. Check it out. Everything about this anti-christ says it is jesus. Transliterate letter for letter the name and it adds up to 616 which is the number of the beast. Calculate 666 and it is the crucifix. So that would say that the crucifix will be put in the holy place, and, as you have pointed out historically, people will be forced to bow down and serve it. Has Christianity not only been duped but also duped are non-Christians for believing the Christian interpretations of the bible are correct. So what does that say if you've been duped by something you don't even claim to believe in? So, do you really want the truth or are you just looking for an excuse to try and bash the Christians? The best way to "bash" someone is use against them the very words they claim to cling to but really don't. It leaves them speechless. A little angry nonetheless but speechless.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Verbiage

 

Believe it or not, I actually agree.

I am, as a spiritual person, somewhat embittered by the way organized Abrahamic religions,whether it be Judaism,Christianity or Islam, view and treat people like me. However, I do acknowledge the fact that, at least in regards to Christianity, there are good works that get accomplished through that institution.

Sure but even a wolf in sheeps clothing looks like a sheep on the outside. So if something evil uses supposed good deeds to bait their victims how good can that supposed good really be? Jude 23 ...Hate even the clothes that are stained by the sins of those who wear them.

reply to post by The Riley Family


In one post you talk as if you are defending institutionalized religion, then in another you talk as if you disdain it. It's rather confusing to me. As for me, I disdain institutionalized religion almost perpetually. I don't get that from your posts.

So, what are you saying? Those who actually try and live a TRUE Christian life by doing good deeds are "evil?" Are you one of those who think that only those who proselytize and forget the good deeds are "good?" See, I think the opposite. I think those who actually live a life of giving and charity are the TRUE Christians, not those who struggle to convert everyone to believe their own personal ideologies.





[edit on 28-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

The problem is one of standards. I have no problem with people that try to be good and productive memebers of society. Some sort of social awareness is also a great idea.

However the bible is a complex and obscure book that gives those, who believe in it in a literal manner,the right to interprete it to justify any stance they wish.

consider this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If I was a woman I would avoid all Xtians. But they are women in the churchs so they are either ignorant of the bible or are ignoring that bit.

What bothers me is that there seems to be no debate within Xtianity to censure the bad Xtians. A broach church acceptance seems to be in place. Hardly suprising as the church is dying.

T

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by moocowman

 

Attributes such as?

Whatever those that buy into it choose, everything is up for grabs it would seem.

Here's an example of this logic -

A recent ATS topic was the shroud of turin, one quite intelligent and reasonably well read member, quite surprised me by asserting that. As certain attributes of the shroud a are shared by jesus mentioned in the bibles, the image is therefore jesus .
(That's the general assertion of the poster I can't remember word for word.)

All well and good, the attributes in this instance being -
Image of man with beard.

The (alleged) appearance of wounds to feet and hands possibly forehead.
Alleged image of crown type object on forehead.
Alleged markings on body as a result of whipping and stab wound to the side
The body being covered in a shroud.
The shrouds' weave allegedly being unique to the Palestine are along with some pollen.
And finally, that the shroud had previously been claimed to be that of jesus mentioned in ths bibles.

Putting aside for the moment that some of these attributes are not necessarily accurate or assuming that they are. These attributes can fit any male figure that has ever been crucified but the counter claim is that, as some the attributes are so unique and in combination with other attributes along with the inexplicable manner of the images creation, therfore it must be jesus.

If we take the same reasoning and apply it to any of the other jesus' taking that attributes that appear to fit the description we could easily conclude that this shroud is the image of let's say Jesus of Gamala.

But rebuttals to this come in strange logic fro example, Jesus of Gamala never turned water into wine so it must be the one that did.
Of course we do not know whether jesus of Gamala did or did not turn water into wine but it is equally improbable and unrecorded and unwitnessed as jesus of the bibles.

Again we can turn this on it's head and claim that Jesus of Gamala is one and the same man written in the bibles as he share some of the same attributes. Yet again the illogical rebuttal is that cannot be because of the attributes the they do not share.

If we were to try and establish an identity for the jesus mentioned in the bibles purely on eye witness testimony we could reasonably claim (not that I am at this point, I'm being hypothetical) that jesus of Gamala is being spoken of in the bibles.

The fact that some of Gamalas' attributes are not shared is secondary because none of the firsts cannot be verified .


In a nutshell if a person claims to have seen jesus then whatever he has seen, could be a number of things. Based on the evidence (or lack of) Thor is equally as real as jesus, so the person claiming to be in communication with jesus could well be communicating with Thor.

It's not good enough to say that jesus didn't have a hammer because we don't know he didn't and we cannot establish his reality to prove that he didn't. The individual could have been communicating with jesus of Gamala who may also not have had a hammer.

I have spoken with many many persons that claim to have seen jesus, when questioned upon what they saw most end up changing their story to hearing something. When then questioned upon what they heard, most inevitably change their story to what they felt.

When questioned about what they felt, most struggle to try and communicate an emotion that is not uncommon to everyone but somehow in their case, this rather prosaic condition must be jesus.

Needless to say the conversation often ends up going down silly street and more often than not the individual has for whatever reason appeared to invent something in order to justify their need to believe.

Nine times out of ten the individual invariable stamps his feet and barks " well I believe it was jesus" .

It is a scary thought that huge swathes of the human population are suffering delusion, I am more inclined to think (and hope) that they are kidding themselves in order to fit, with those that appear to show empathy with them and justify what they have been indoctrinated with, or have indoctrinated themselves with.

reply to post by WTFover

If a person, truly lives their life according to the principles of Christianity, and there is no afterlife or "heaven", what have they lost? However, if upon death, a non-believer discovers the Christian was right, won't he feel a bit silly?

Why would I feel silly ? I'd have had a good life , if the invincible man in the sky wants to chastise me for not believing I would merely point out that he was a very poor communicator.

So I would be condemned to hell ? What's so different with hell and spending an eternity grovelling to a tyrannical nut job that could change his mind at the drop of a hat and send you to hell at later date.

Better the devil you know ----.