Obama has cancelled "Return to the Moon"

news.bbc.co.uk...

The Constellation programme envisaged new rockets and a new crewship called Orion to put astronauts on the lunar surface by 2020.

But in his 2011 budget request issued on Monday, Mr Obama said the project was too costly, "behind schedule, and lacking in innovation".

How convenient. They won't have to suffer the embarrasment of failure now. Too many people watching to pull it off.

In the 60s they went from zero to being on the Moon in 7 years.

Today they couldn't do it 14 despite only needing to build a rocket to do it. The physics was already known; they only had to recreate Apollo. Nothing could have been easier as far as space is concerned. We've been orbiting the planet for decades - it's not as if we don't have living in space down to a fine art now, and reliability and computing power is far greater than it was then.

It never did make sense that the Russians never went, and that the only photos to ever come back of Apollo on the Moon were taken by the Americans and never a 3rd party. The Japanese mission to the Moon to do visible obversations of the Moons surface never showed the Apollo landing sites, and the photos of the areas in question are not available. Very curious.

Everything is pointing to the original Moon landings as the hoax of the millennium.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by mirageofdeceit]

I admit i had a little chuckle to myself when i heard this announcement ! This has done nothing but throw further suspicion and fuel the fire on the whole moonlanding affair ! Boy are the conspiracy theorists (of which i once was concerning landing on the moon) going to have a field day with this one !
It opens a whole new/renewed debate !
I once was sure they didn't then convinced they did ! Now oh boy i don't know which way to go !



[edit on 052828p://02America/Chicago01 by ProRipp]

Just to throw a bit more fuel on this inferno:

news.bbc.co.uk...

A treasured piece at the Dutch national museum - a supposed moon rock from the first manned lunar landing - is nothing more than petrified wood, curators say.

It was given to former Prime Minister Willem Drees during a goodwill tour by the three Apollo-11 astronauts shortly after their moon mission in 1969.

When Mr Drees died, the rock went on display at the Amsterdam museum.

At one point it was insured for around $500,000 (£308,000), but tests have proved it was not the genuine article.

Yeah, I heard about that piece of wood also.

Very funny. Yeah it does reopen the debate about the moon landing hoax, but how come it ever closed?

I see it as a half truth. They landed, but didn't show the good footage, just the stuff they edited. Some of the footage was also created on a set.

A mix of both, seems logical?

Its what I think. Also some of the footage shot in space by NASA catches UFO's so there is a hidden truth to some of it.

It is just hard to make out.

good articles by the way

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


Incorrect.

It never did make sense that the Russians never went...

Misconception, and totally well-understood if you'd bothered to read any of the hundreds of books on the subject.

(Hint: Their heavy-lift rocket design was a disaster, and they never acheived success with it. Just ONE reason...)

The Japanese mission to the Moon to do visible obversations of the Moons surface never showed the Apollo landing sites...

Strawman, and not supported by the facts.

... and the photos of the areas in question are not available. Very curious.

BUT, although the resolution capability of the Japanese Kaguya (nor its orbital altitude) did not allow that resolution (wasn't in its misison design, anyway) the follow on LRO mission WAS successful, and there is no disputing the photos of the Apollo landing sites, they are all over the web, and here on ATS.

Upon a quick search, found that the Kaguya DID image at least one Apollo site, with some conclusive photos showing hte disturbance of the soil and regolith, even though the hardware down thre is too small/far away for the camera to image:

Kaguya spots Apollo 15 landing site


BTW....the joke of the petrifed wood is also well understood. Someone who gave it as a gift was punked into believing it to be genuine. Someone who didn't check it out, better.

But, we're likely going to see an Indian or Chinese flag on the Moon, next.

Very bad news, that will be, when they have the "high ground" advantage.


[edit on 1 February 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by mirageofdeceit

 

Incorrect.

It never did make sense that the Russians never went...

Misconception, and totally well-understood if you'd bothered to read any of the hundreds of books on the subject.

(Hint: Their heavy-lift rocket design was a disaster, and they never acheived success with it. Just ONE reason...)

The Japanese mission to the Moon to do visible obversations of the Moons surface never showed the Apollo landing sites...

Strawman, and not supported by the facts. And what are those facts?

... and the photos of the areas in question are not available. Very curious.

BUT, although the resolution capability of the Japanese Kaguya (nor its orbital altitude) did not allow that resolution (wasn't in its misison design, anyway) the follow on LRO mission WAS successful, and there is no disputing the photos of the Apollo landing sites, they are all over the web, and here on ATS.

Upon a quick search, found that the Kaguya DID image at least one Apollo site, with some conclusive photos showing hte disturbance of the soil and regolith, even though the hardware down thre is too small/far away for the camera to image:

Kaguya spots Apollo 15 landing site


BTW....the joke of the petrifed wood is also well understood. Someone who gave it as a gift was punked into believing it to be genuine. Someone who didn't check it out, better.

But, we're likely going to see an Indian or Chinese flag on the Moon, next.

Very bad news, that will be, when they have the "high ground" advantage.


[edit on 1 February 2010 by weedwhacker]

sorry but i fail to see any Apollo landing objects the link you just posted
in the link you just posted only shows an rock and photoshopped version of red lines showing that what they think is Apollo landing object, but i fail to see any similarities nice try though.



But the Apollo landing was a hoax.

honestly where do you see Apollo in this screen shot?

www.universetoday.com...

all i see is nothing but terrain and rocks, if i saw Apollo it would be have been a bit bigger and metal colour, nice try.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

reply to post by weedwhacker




What?
Are you trying to say the Soviet Union DID send people to the Moon? I've never heard that one.

As for the Moon rock that turned out to be a piece of wood... You act like it's the fault of the person who recieved the object. He was given a "moon rock" by a respected US official and it was his fault that it was fake? C'mon weedy take off the blinders. I'm not saying it's proof we didn't go to the Moon or anything, but you can't deny that a US official paased off a piece of wood as a Moon rock. You blame the guy who got duped?

*Sigh* Not this nonsense again. OK, one more time:

The US didn't give out moonrocks to governments as gifts until 1972. The rock in question was given by then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf to former Prime Minister Willem Drees on October 9, 1969 to commemorate the visit of the Apollo 11 astronauts. It not a gift from government to government - It was a private gift to a friend who was a retired politician.

The rock was mounted above a plaque which read "With the compliments of the Ambassador of the United States of America ... to commemorate the visit to The Netherlands of the Apollo-11 astronauts."

No one claimed that it was, in fact, a rock from the Moon.

Drees died in 1988, and items of memorabilia were donated by his family to the Rijksmuseum (Dutch National Museum). This included the rock and the attached plaque. In 2006, as part of an exhibition titled "Fly Me to the Moon" it was put on display and incorrectly labled as a moon rock. Note that after 37 years, no scientist had examined the rock.

Shortly after it went on display, physicist Arno Wielders saw the stone at the exposition. "I thought: this can't be real. The size was a big surprise to me, and the colour wasn't right as well." He called the NASA office that handles storage and distribution of lunar material. He described the rock and the plaque and was immediately told that this could not be a moon rock. The museum had geologist Wim van Westrenen of the VU University, Amsterdam to examine the rock, and after just 2-minutes he knew it did not have any characteristics of a lunar sample. Further examination at the university with a microscope and spectrascope confirmed its terrrestrial origin.

So, in short:

- It was a private gift, without any official endorsment.
- The astronauts had no knowledge of it.
- It was not placed under scientific scrutiny for almost 40 years.
- NASA disavowed any possibility that it could have been one of theirs.
- When it was examined, its nature and origin became quickly obvious.

There are too many of these Obama Moon threads!
I started one last night and nobody wanted to play.
Let's all get on one page, literally.

Originally posted by Saint Exupery
*Sigh* Not this nonsense again. OK, one more time:

The US didn't give out moonrocks to governments as gifts until 1972. The rock in question was given by then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf to former Prime Minister Willem Drees on October 9, 1969 to commemorate the visit of the Apollo 11 astronauts. It not a gift from government to government - It was a private gift to a friend who was a retired politician.

Fair enough

The rock was mounted above a plaque which read "With the compliments of the Ambassador of the United States of America ... to commemorate the visit to The Netherlands of the Apollo-11 astronauts."

No one claimed that it was, in fact, a rock from the Moon.

Seriously? A US ambassador gives you a rock mounted on a plaque with that inscription, and your telling me he wasn't supposed to think it was a Moon rock? Seriously?

Drees died in 1988, and items of memorabilia were donated by his family to the Rijksmuseum (Dutch National Museum). This included the rock and the attached plaque. In 2006, as part of an exhibition titled "Fly Me to the Moon" it was put on display and incorrectly labled as a moon rock. Note that after 37 years, no scientist had examined the rock.

Incorrectly labled? What were they supposed to lable it as. "Some random rock that's not connected to the moon in anyway, but is to commemorate the Apollo-11 astronauts none the less."

Come on. You make it sound like it was a clerical error on the part of the Dutch. And why would they get it inspected by a scientist anyway? They had no reason to belive that ambassador J. William Middendorf was a con artist... or at best a lawyer.

So, in short:

- It was a private gift, without any official endorsment.
- The astronauts had no knowledge of it.
- It was not placed under scientific scrutiny for almost 40 years.
- NASA disavowed any possibility that it could have been one of theirs.
- When it was examined, its nature and origin became quickly obvious.

I guess I can agree with all of this, but you guys sure seem to be in a rush to make it out like the Prime Minister was the one at fault. It wasn't his fault. He was the one that got conned.

But what ever lets get back to how Obama just destroyed NASA and how we will not leave low Earth orbit for at lest another 30 years.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
news.bbc.co.uk...

But in his 2011 budget request issued on Monday, Mr Obama said the project was too costly, "behind schedule, and lacking in innovation".

Iraq and Afghanistan aren't?

Obama has yet to speak anything worth hearing.
Nor his predecessor.

The cost is prohibitive, and arguably a waste even in prosperous times. We have more pressing matters to be dealing with at the moment IMO.

Wow. That is really devastating, honestly. The only country we can count on, if maybe Russia, is USA. But now they are very lowering the money input for space exploration, and that is very bad news.. We could learn so much more there...

;(

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


I just read on "Physorg.com" that NASA has been told to use the money that would have been used to get back to the moon, to develope new rocket technologies. This includes orbital refueling. There has been a lot of new technology developed, but not deployed over the last few years. This includes considerable advances in Earth to space boosters, and interplanetary craft using radio-plasma drives that can get you to Mars in 39 days, as opposed to six months one way. Just mabey, this is not the total disaster I first thought it was. As they used to say, watch this space...

I have to say it's laughable that Messiah Obama thinks he has any leeway in a Moon landing, as the current occupants (whomever they may be at this point in time) quite obviously do not want us Terrans back on there - for whatever reason...

Kind of like a dishwasher dictating to the executive chef - it aint gonna happen baby!

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
In the 60s they went from zero to being on the Moon in 7 years.

Today they couldn't do it 14 despite only needing to build a rocket to do it.

NASA had a bigger budget in the 60's and the majority of that budget was used for the Apollo program. Where as NASA's current budget is divided up between a lot of different programs. The Constellation program only receives a small amount per year. And they needed more than just a rocket. They needed two rockets (Ares I and V) a new spacecraft (Orion) and a new Lunar Lander (Altair).

Everything is pointing to the original Moon landings as the hoax of the millennium.

Define "everything". I have yet to see any evidence of a hoax.

Originally posted by fieryjaguarpaw
I guess I can agree with all of this, but you guys sure seem to be in a rush to make it out like the Prime Minister was the one at fault. It wasn't his fault. He was the one that got conned.

The former PM was 83 years old by 1969 and he was partly deaf and blind according to his grandson. While he wasn't senile, he may not have fully understood what he was given.

No one was trying to con anyone. It's just a misunderstanding.

it almost looks as if the US government wants or expects the private sector to pick up the slack and develop better and more efficient technologies for space travel. kinda like the days of privateers and their contributions to the war of 1812. in my opinion, this can only be a good thing as more private companies compete against each other to research and develop more practical and efficient means of transporting cargo and personnel to space, then the greater the chances for the common individual to experience space travel.

[edit on 2.1.10 by toreishi]

reply to post by fieryjaguarpaw

I guess I can agree with all of this, but you guys sure seem to be in a rush to make it out like the Prime Minister was the one at fault.

Not at all. Those are just the facts. My opinion is that it was a pretty silly gesture. What was the ambassador thinking? You got me - until this, every decision ever made by any politician has been wise, well-considered, totally understandable and free from any controversy.

(My hands just tried to strangle me for making them type that)

It wasn't his fault. He was the one that got conned.

This assumes that Drees thought that it was a moonrock. I haven't seen any evidence evidence either way. He might have understood that it was a symbolic gesture, or Middendorf might have told him.

The first real sign of misunderstanding is when the museum mislabled it. I agree that if someone pulled it out of a box and read the plaque, then the mistaken assumption is readily understandible. He or she could have made a better effort to ID the rock, but what the hey, they're not going to get the chair for taking a short cut.

This is, after all, a thread about people in positions of responsibility making the wrong decision for short-term gain...

But what ever lets get back to how Obama just destroyed NASA and how we will not leave low Earth orbit for at lest another 30 years.

THIS

what country in the world can say that it has a private sector that's capable of accomplishing this?



sorry, no ufos in this vid... just a plain old satellite launch...

spacex and other companies like it are the reason why obama canceled the constellation. if you want the private sector to develop projects that will become economically and financially viable then you shouldn't maintain a government agency that competes and offers the same services as those private companies.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by mirageofdeceit

 

BTW....the joke of the petrifed wood is also well understood. Someone who gave it as a gift was punked into believing it to be genuine. Someone who didn't check it out, better.

That "someone" was no other than the US ambassador to The Netherlands of that time, who says he obtained the rock from the US State Department.

Now why would the US State Department play "a practical joke" on one of its ambassadors and a fellow Nato states? You really think someone was trying to be funny? Maybe, but I would like to nuance that a little.

I think the State Department believed, in terms of 1960's technology, that the Dutch would never even bother to check, much less find out the truth. I think the gift was a deliberate act of bravado and bluff from an arrogant hoaxing (shadow) government. Another 'covert signal' to the ignorant masses who are stupid enough to believe any lie that's being fed to them. Oh I believe that whoever planted the item had a good laugh alright, but not because it was just a joke. They laughed because it was one more opportunity to prove how unbelievably stupid and gullible human kind really is. And that is not a joke. That is very serious, and truly very sad.

In the eyes of the true powers that be, humanity is disgustingly stupid, ignorant and gullible. Human traits like, trust, goodness, compassion and love are seen as weaknesses to be dealt with through means of deceit and abuse.
Through the course of the ages, humanity has only proven them right. We are still fighting wars for them, still earning money for their corporations, paying interest to their banks and paying taxes to their governments. Why? Because we are good, lawful and loyal people. We believe that eventually, if we just keep playing by the rules, everything will be fixed. They determine our reality because we believe we are doing the right thing by remaining within the parameters of what they have determined is accepted history and legitimate science. And they laugh because anything that we come across that doesn't meet those criteria, is discarded by us as "not true". We have given them so much power, we believe anything they tell us in books, feed us through the media, teach us in school. "Petrified Wood" is the perfect symbol for their view on humanity.

So maybe it's time to go kick a rock and chop some wood...