Yemen : The Underwear Bomber, Detroit, and Closing Guantanamo

Now you have to step back and wonder at the audacity of someone willing to strap explosives to themselves in becoming a human bomb. The suicide bomber has to be one of the shortest careers in job employment and as far as career advancement they have nowhere to go but up, up, up.

I guess you could say upward mobility is definitely a career perk for them with regards to them in the alleged rewards of the hereafter.

Now my use of "their" was not directed at Muslim's, per se, but about "extremist's" in general, no matter the country, culture, or religion, what most call "Zionist's".

This would be the "fringe element" within society throughout the world willing to do anything to force a change, even "terrorism", something I am not willing to do.

Being neither "left-wing" nor "right-wing" because of understanding the nature of the divisiveness of party politics and the "fringe element", and being neither Democrat nor Republican because of my independent nature, I have always seen how the two-party system is a false dichotomy, because with only two choices, I can see you have no choices at all.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

Maybe this is exactly why I can see the two choices of closing Guantanamo or not closing it as a fallacy, of leaving alleged "terrorist's" there or sending them home for their country to deal with them as a fallacy.

And keeping them in Guantanamo through "secret evidence", or putting them in a prison on American soil in Michigan or Illinois without trial is a fallacy.

I can see all of this from several angels in face because of the controversial nature of the politicized agendas of Government.

Abstract, negative, concrete, the Hegelian Dialectic cannot only create these situations like the attempted bombing on December 25, 2009 of the "Underwear Bomber", it can as well be utilized to shred and tear apart the official story.

Abstract idea - A "terrorist" slips on board a jet in a different country, heading to America.

Detroit in fact, a now economically depressed state, the scene of where the heart of American industry used to lie in regards to the car industry.

Negative idea - That same "terrorist" not only almost succeeded, due allegedly to Intelligence slip-ups, but almost ruined Christmas for many people, the passengers, their family, and America which is still reeling after 9/11 with the "Official Story" supporters and the "Truther Movement", the nation is still divided.

Concrete idea - The "terrorist" was stopped, Yemen was targeted politically as a nation of interest, and "terrorism" was cemented into blockheads who buy into the "fearful people", making those who fear questioning authority those who are more fearful of asking questions of the "Official Story" than the events that lead to them.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a9991399206a.gif[/atsimg]

Odd is it not that Yemen is directly next door to Saudia Arabia, the land of the Al Saud family, the same family strongly tied to the Bush family, as well as to the Bin Laden family?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/df5dc657613c.jpg[/atsimg]

Odd is it not as well that Sana'a, the capital of Yemen is now brought into the spotlight?

I started this thread because of a book I got for Christmas.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e906994eaab8.jpg[/atsimg]

And the thread I started about it and my seeking knowledge about the Middle East.

Guess What I Got For Christmas? The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran

But as well because of my understanding of history being a part of the current drama.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f75932d4680a.jpg[/atsimg]

Truth and Lies of 9/11 : Mike Ruppert, C.I.A. Drug Running, and Your Government

And the knowledge of just how Government gains its power to direct a war.

Divide and Conquer : Political Ideology of the Power Elite, Selling The Peace, War Is The Motive

After all if you know conflict you do know that truth is often the first victim.

Truth : The First Victim, The Last to Be Un-Buried, Never to Rest..

And that more often than not there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

Taliban Build Multi-Million Dollar Insurgent Operation, Complicating U.S. Efforts

What are your thoughts on this topic and on the Middle East in general?

[edit on 18-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Now you have to step back and wonder at the audacity of someone willing to strap explosives to themselves in becoming a human bomb. The suicide bomber has to be one of the shortest careers in job employment and as far as career advancement they have nowhere to go but up, up, up.

That deserved four laughs!

Fear and Loathing in Government Propaganda. Now that could be a good book title.

I was just discussing the drug wars on another thread and I brought up how we should quit being afraid of our own shadows.

This has always been the way of government, control by fear. Fear of drugs and their detriment to society. Fear of those evil capitalists. Fear of terrorists. Fear of Global Warming. Fear of this, fear of that.

Fear.

Now one of my favorite book series and authors. A little snippet from that series.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

As I said before SKL, I have had a different path of knowledge growing up. Reading science fiction and fiction you get a different perspective than classical knowledge or education.

Yes the books and info you provide are important, but sometimes one must enjoy the knowledge you are given instead of just the aspect of the knowledge itself.

I invite anyone that enjoys a good read of science fiction to pick up the Dune series and think about governmental control as a pretext while reading the series. It does get down to the nitty gritty of control.

Dune Series by Frank Herbert

Also the Azimov collection gets into the theories of control. Now that series is huge. So if you are ready for a half year of books.

Robot series
Foundation series

What is great about the Azimov books, you can find numerous torrents on them.

As always SKL S&F

edit to add-As for the middle east in general, who cares about em. Pull out and let them work out their own damn problems. My father 30 years ago said the stupidest thing that we could do is stand between the Jews and the Muslims. They have been fighting for how many centuries now. Sometimes we must listen to our elders.




[edit on 1/18/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Now you have to step back and wonder at the audacity of someone willing to strap explosives to themselves in becoming a human bomb. The suicide bomber has to be one of the shortest careers in job employment and as far as career advancement they have nowhere to go but up, up, up.

That deserved four laughs!

Thanks.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Fear and Loathing in Government Propaganda. Now that could be a good book title.

Excellent book title, write it down.

I know you could write it.

I liked this book.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fde2420c0914.jpg[/atsimg]

The Science of Fear: Why We Fear the Things We Shouldn't--and Put Ourselves in Greater Danger

Publishers Weekly : Amazon Review :

Gardner, a columnist and senior writer for the Ottawa Citizen, is both matter-of-fact and entertaining in this look at fear and how it shapes our lives.

Although we are capable of reason, says Gardner, we often rely instead on intuitive snap judgments.

We also assume instinctively, but incorrectly, that if examples of something can be recalled easily, that thing must be common.

And what is more memorable than headlines and news programs blaring horrible crimes and diseases, plane crashes and terrorist attacks?

In fact, such events are rare, but their media omnipresence activates a gut-level fear response that is out of proportion to the likelihood of our going through such an event.

It doesn't help that scientific data and statistics are often misunderstood and misused and that our risk assessment is influenced less by the facts than by how others respond.

Gardner's vivid, direct style, backed up by clear examples and solid data from science and psychology, brings a breath of fresh air and common sense to an emotional topic.

(June)

Copyright ©

Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc.

All rights reserved.

And as well this book.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/640c46c7ca7b.jpg[/atsimg]

The Cult of the Presidency: America's Dangerous Devotion to Executive Power

Amazon Review :

The Bush years have given rise to fears of a resurgent Imperial Presidency.

Those fears are justified, but the problem cannot be solved simply by bringing a new administration to power.

In his provocative new book, The Cult of the Presidency, Gene Healy argues that the fault lies not in our leaders but in ourselves.

When our scholars lionize presidents who break free from constitutional restraints, when our columnists and talking heads repeatedly call upon the "commander in chief " to dream great dreams and seek the power to achieve them--when voters look to the president for salvation from all problems great and small--should we really be surprised that the presidency has burst its constitutional bonds and grown powerful enough to threaten American liberty?

The Cult of the Presidency takes a step back from the ongoing red team/blue team combat and shows that, at bottom, conservatives and liberals agree on the boundless nature of presidential responsibility.

For both camps, it is the president's job to grow the economy, teach our children well, provide seamless protection from terrorist threats, and rescue Americans from spiritual malaise.

Very few Americans seem to think it odd, says Healy, "when presidential candidates talk as if they're running for a job that's a combination of guardian angel, shaman, and supreme warlord of the earth."

Healy takes aim at that unconfined conception of presidential responsibility, identifying it as the source of much of our political woe and some of the gravest threats to our liberties.

If the public expects the president to heal everything that ails us, the president is going to demand--or seize--the power necessary to handle that responsibility.

Interweaving historical scholarship, legal analysis, and trenchant cultural commentary, The Cult of the Presidency traces America's decades-long drift from the Framers' vision for the presidency: a constitutionally constrained chief magistrate charged with faithful execution of the laws.

Restoring that vision will require a Congress and a Court willing to check executive power, but Healy emphasizes that there is no simple legislative or judicial "fix" to the problems of the presidency.

Unless Americans change what we ask of the office--no longer demanding what we should not want and cannot have--we'll get what, in a sense, we deserve.

Originally posted by endisnighe
I was just discussing the drug wars on another thread and I brought up how we should quit being afraid of our own shadows.

Exactly true, fear is a great motivator of people with ill intentions.

New World Order : There Is No Such Thing, Architect's of Lies, They Created A Phantom Menace

Originally posted by endisnighe
This has always been the way of government, control by fear. Fear of drugs and their detriment to society. Fear of those evil capitalists. Fear of terrorists. Fear of Global Warming. Fear of this, fear of that.

I believe a great stateman had this to say and he said it pretty good.

Nothing to Fear but Fear Itself

Originally posted by endisnighe

Fear.

I fear nothing, no man, and no Government.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Now one of my favorite book series and authors. A little snippet from that series.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Got a book title?

Originally posted by endisnighe
As I said before SKL, I have had a different path of knowledge growing up. Reading science fiction and fiction you get a different perspective than classical knowledge or education.

I read non-fiction, science fiction, fantasy, and regular fiction.

Knowledge gained, is knowledge earned, is knowledge passed along.

History repeats itself, which is why I focus on it so much.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Yes the books and info you provide are important, but sometimes one must enjoy the knowledge you are given instead of just the aspect of the knowledge itself.

I agree.

However, always pass on knowledge, it is more valuable.

Knowledge is power.

Originally posted by endisnighe
I invite anyone that enjoys a good read of science fiction to pick up the Dune series and think about governmental control as a pretext while reading the series. It does get down to the nitty gritty of control.

Dune Series by Frank Herbert

Also the Azimov collection gets into the theories of control. Now that series is huge. So if you are ready for a half year of books.

Robot series
Foundation series

What is great about the Azimov books, you can find numerous torrents on them.

As always SKL S&F

Thanks.

I know I prefer books in my hand so I can loan them out.

I try to download at a minimum, books or otherwise.

Originally posted by endisnighe
edit to add-As for the middle east in general, who cares about em. Pull out and let them work out their own damn problems. My father 30 years ago said the stupidest thing that we could do is stand between the Jews and the Muslims. They have been fighting for how many centuries now. Sometimes we must listen to our elders.
[edit on 1/18/2010 by endisnighe]

Well, the only reason we really need to pay attention, is because our Government puts boots on their ground, which is to say we need to know what our Government is up to, at all times.

Personally, I think stepping in between the Middle East conflict is stupid.

It is like an ignorant man walking between two drunks, you will get hit.

I prefer letting the two drunks beat the crap out of each other, and then throwing them out of the bar, much easier, let them do their own dirty work, and just clean up the mess afterwards.

Tactics, it is all about the tactics we choose as a society, and a nation.

Especially when it comes to the international community.

The current Middle East conflict is about nothing more than G.O.D.

Guns, Oil, and Drugs, it is that simple.

The complexities come into play with who's doing what and where.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Sorry about not providing the quote reference to the Litany against Fear

Litany against Fear-
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

This is from the Dune series by Frank Herbert. The first book in the series.

It was introduced when Paul Atreides was going to be tested by the Reverend Mother of the Bene Gesserit. An order of women that had been practicing a millennium old breeding program to create the Quisat Saddarach. A mythical person that could look into the future and see the time line of the future of humans. One problem with the breeding program was the possibility of creating an animal instead of a human. The test was given to Paul by him having to stick his hand into a box. The box created excruciating pain. If one was to pull out immediately, which would be the sign of an animal (base instinct alone) the Reverend Mother would inject the Gaum Jabbaar, a poison which causes almost immediate death. Paul was able to withstand the pain and was given a pass by the Reverend Mother. The litany was taught to Paul by his mother Jessica. She was instructed to produce a female but because of her love for her betrothed Lord-Duke Leito Atreides, she gave birth to a male-Paul Atreides.

Awesome series. This all by memory, I have read that series many times and have both the Movie Release and the Sci Fi channel movies on disc. The ones created by the Sci Fi channel were almost as good as the books, but nothing can beat imagination.

reply to post by endisnighe


Yes, the base animal instinct of fear, is a driving motivation to over act.

I remember at age six during Hurricane David, my stepfather opened all the tiny ramshackle shack our family was staying in, to stabilize the pressure difference between inside and outside.

This let the hurricane into the house, but kept the roof from being ripped off.

In other words, let the drama in, and handle it.

Then, during the eye of the hurricane, both he and I went outside to pee.

He pointed up to the edge of the eye and told me we had five minutes outside.

Then he told me, there is no reason to ever fear a hurricane, because fear can get you dead.

There is rain, wind, and an occasionaly tree branch, or the odd cow, or house.

Those are all things you can avoid, but if you cannot, fear will do nothing but give way to panic, and panicking will get you dead, do not let fear drive you.

In other words, I will not let "terror", real-world terrorism, or synthetic terror, drive me.

The last thing he said was you have to be prepared for any eventuality.

I am currently an adult leader in the Boy Scouts of America, and I am prepared.

Being that this thread is on a "terrorist", and a "terrorist" facility, and transition to a new facility, fear and terrorism is apropos to the topic.

I never read Dune, but watched the movie, but got the meanings well.

Instincts can be tamed, and turned inwards, and then turned outwards creatively.

Hence, threads like this instead of letting fear of dieing for a lack of work drive me.

I am letting my instincts guide me towards the books I am writing.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

It is almost as if a political ally assisted another political ally in bringing a neighbor down a peg. Status between countries among their peers is highly sought out like on a playground, the International Community is of course the sandbox. Political gain through making a neighboring country lose face, especially in the always controversial Middle East and the trumpeting of the United Nations, could definitely be a motive, as well as a scare tactic against coerced cooperation because of the "Underwear Bomber" originating from Yemen.

Of course the depreciation of property value in Detroit and Michigan would be another motive, not that they needed the help of an almost successful event happening to do that, and could have assisted towards the event being set into motion.

Notice that Obama reacted against the C.I.A.for their alleged bungle similar to J.F.K. did against them during the Bay of Pigs fiasco, albeit this was a lesser scenario.

Of course this could all be a well planned out and played out choreography. Why is it that 90 of the 200 "detainees" that are held at Gitmo are Yemeni's?

Is Yemen that loose with security and essentially funneling terrorists through their inferior security apparatus and President Ali Abdullah Saleh's country, or is his country being picked as a convenient scapegoat, or are they the next recipient of financial aid through the United Nations from America?

Saleh has been quoted as saying in regards to ruling Yemen :

Quote from : Time Magazine : January 18, 2010 (Page 33)

...dancing on the heads of snakes.

That the "Underwear Bomber", Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is Nigerian, and not Yemeni either shows that the al Queda is anequal opportunity terrorism netword, or those pulling off false-flag terrorism cannot find the perfect McVeigh patsy because American's are not buying the lies anymore after catching the Government with their pants down with the M.I.A.C. Report fiasco and are getting desperate to keep selling "terrorism" as a serious threat.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (also referred to as Umar Abdul Mutallab and Omar Farooq al-Nigeri; born December 22, 1986, in Lagos, Nigeria) is a Muslim Nigerian citizen and alleged terrorist who attempted to detonate plastic explosives hidden in his underwear on board of Northwest Airlines Flight 253, en route from Amsterdam to Detroit, Michigan, on Christmas Day December 25, 2009.

Abdulmutallab was charged on December 26, 2009, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, with two criminal counts:

attempting to blow up and placing a destructive device on a U.S. civil aircraft.

Additional charges were added in a grand jury indictment on January 6, 2010, including attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and attempted murder of 289 people.

He is incarcerated at the Federal Correctional Institution, Milan, Michigan, while awaiting further legal proceedings.

If he is convicted on the charges, he will face a life sentence plus 90 years in jail.

The Port of Aden off the coast of Yemen is where a speedboat packed with explosives struck the U.S.S. Cole in 2000 prior to September 11, 2001.

What is significant about Yemen is not only this countries Northern neighbor, Saudia Arabia, but the Southern neighbor across the Gulf of Aden, Somalia, and her capital, Mogadishu.

Mogadishu and Somalia were once high in the public mind because of an operation that did not get much public attention at the time when it happened, but not until Hollywood had their story of the telling of it come out in the now famous movie called Blackhawk Down.

That Yemen and Somalia are locations where khat is grown and chewed means this may very well be a current or future consideration for the D.E.A. because of the nature of khat.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Khat

Khat (Catha edulis, family Celastraceae; pronounced /ˈkɑːt/, kaat; Arabic: قات; Ge'ez ጫት č̣āt; Somali: qaat), is a flowering plant native to tropical East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula.

Khat contains the alkaloid called cathinone, an amphetamine-like stimulant which is said to cause excitement, loss of appetite and euphoria.

In 1980 the World Health Organization classified khat as a drug of abuse that can produce mild to moderate psychological dependence.

The plant has been targeted by anti-drug organizations like the DEA.

It is a controlled/illegal substance in many countries, but is legal for sale and production in many others.

So, we have a triangle of sorts, Yemen, Detroit, and Guantanamo.

Close Guantanamo, or don't, send them home to Yemen, or don't, or use Detroit or Illinois, or don't.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Excellent Thread!
Star and flagged, can't wait for good discussion!

I'd like to add this to the thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's a thread I created that got no attention but still an important topic I believe.

I will be adding comments shortly.

Before I go finish cooking i'd like to ask a question
How many actually think there's alot of people out there that believes that 100 virgins are waiting for them?

Also how many believe that there's actually alot of people out there willing to become a suicide bomber?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Excellent Thread!
Star and flagged, can't wait for good discussion!

I'd like to add this to the thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's a thread I created that got no attention but still an important topic I believe.

I will be adding comments shortly.

Before I go finish cooking i'd like to ask a question
How many actually think there's alot of people out there that believes that 100 virgins are waiting for them?

Also how many believe that there's actually alot of people out there willing to become a suicide bomber?

Interesting thread you have there ModernAcademia.

Americanism vs. Unity & Patriotism vs. Demagoguery

I am unsure of those who believe in the virgins in the afterlife theory.

Personally, I do not want a virgins waiting, I've never been with one, and have no interest.

I do not think it is a matter of wanting to become one.

I think people within any and all religions pick up on suicidal people.

Some help them and some help them meet their maker.

Syriana


The movie Syriana, while a fictional movie, does show just that as an example.

Where do I start, so many good things written here... I know, how about the witnesses on camera!

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I never got that 72 virgins thing either, if someone wants to motivate me they should promise 72 porn queens and lap dancers to back'em up.

It's the afterlife, it's not like you have to worry about crabs, or should I say "Ghost Crabs." You could have all the freaky fantasies you want and never pay the price for S.T.D.'s

Oh yeah, leave the virgins on the bus and send me the freaky girls that like to have their hair pulled and get a good spanking. I'll be the meter checking guy and she can be the Lawyer housewife that meets me at the basement door in a silk Asian split leg dress with no...

OK - I digress, I'm sorry, my favorite author is Carlos Castenada, and believe it or not, if I don't get the boot, I'm just getting started.

Edit: To not go to far before I say something stupid.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by factbeforefiction]

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

I never got that 72 virgins thing either, if someone wants to motivate me they should promise 72 porn queens and lap dancers to back'em up.

Porn queens.

Personally, once I die I could care less what happens afterwards.

Heaven, Hell, "Paradise", I will deal with it, when I see it.

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
It's the afterlife, it's not like you have to worry about crabs, or should I say "Ghost Crabs." You could have all the freaky fantasies you want and never pay the price for S.T.D.'s

I have to wonder at the thought processes about those virgins.

Who the Hell wants to bother with that?

I'm fine with an experienced woman, one woman, once I am dead I will not inhabit a body.

Spirit forms have sex?

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
Oh yeah, leave the virgins on the bus and send me the freaky girls that like to have their hair pulled and get a good spanking. I'll be the meter checking guy and she can be the Lawyer housewife that meets me at the basement door in a silk Asian split leg dress with no...

No comment.

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
OK - I digress, I'm sorry, my favorite author is Carlos Castenada, and believe it or not, if I don't get the boot, I'm just getting started.

Edit: To not go to far before I say something stupid.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by factbeforefiction]

Go idea.

I noticed a recurring theme, of FEAR!!! as ascribed, in this OP.

I am wondering, though, if anyone has noticed how LITTLE we are hearig the "FEAR" card being played lately???

Perhaps this is best delegated to the "Political Madness" thread, but think about it, during the last TWO United Statres Presidential election campaigns......

ESPECIALLY when GWB was the US President, in his first "term", and in the run-up to the 2004 election....the "drama" of the "terrorist threat" and the "TSA Alert Level" was constantly in the media, plastered on the front pages of EVEN the "left-wing-liberal" newspapers, and the "left-wing-liberal" video media outlets......

Hasn't anyone noticed how LITTLE we hear of the "TSA Threat Level" we hear anymore???

(OK< the UK just announced that THEY have upgraded their 'awareness' status, and elevated their alert levels, at airports, rail stations, etc...is there an election pending there????)

The irony is that, on a site where it is 'alleged' and 'supposed' that 'conspiracies' exist....certain people CREATE the 'conspiracies' simply by posting about them...

Not sure how else to describe the phenomenom, except to say it as simply as that.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Fear is a great motivator, when people fear, they are easily controlled.

Something I speak against all the time, about needless fear, and panicking.

Panicking only gets you dead faster, whether it is literally dead, or metaphorically dead through legislation being passed because people are afraid.

The "T.S.A. Threat Level" indicator is nothing more than a scare tactic.

It was already is use well before 9/11 through the Pentagon and N.O.R.A.D.

As for Bush or post-Bush Administration's, it is the polar opposite, which means when the real incident happens they will turn up the amplifier on the fear.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Sorry, SKL, but your opinions, as shown by the threads you start, and how you populate them with "data" to support your OP show a gross lack of understanding of real history and only a cursory glance and passing knowledge of what can be "googled" via the Internet.

Okay, that's completely and utterly a false statement, and you know it.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
"GOOGLE" does NOT a scholar make....

Of course not, I know that, I have always known that.

I earned the title of Scholar because of my research ability.

I earned the title of Writer because of my writing ability.

I earned the title of Fighter because of my debating ability.

Which is why I post books which I have read.

Those website links I supply are not proof of my knowledge.

They are merely links for other people to do their own research, writing, and debating.

I have done many threads without links and I find those get attacked for lack of linking.

In other words, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I will grant you a fecundity of speechifying, but that's about it....the credibility you wish to convey is lost to those of us who can see through the smoke and mirror tactics.

Sorry....

Do not apologize for anything other than talking about something you know nothing about, me.

This is nothing more than you carrying over an argument from another thread.

You're a lot smarter than that aren't you?

I sure thought so.

I know exactly what I'm talking about because I have studied the regions, the history, and politics both foreign and domestic.

I post the links, videos, and books I post so other people can get their own take on the topic.

I even stated in my original post this thread was because I am seeking knowledge.

In other words I know the topic and I'm seeking more knowledge on it.

In order to add more knowledge so I can "Deny Ignorance".

I have to wonder if you're just going out of your way to irritate people.

Keep going if you want because your mendacity does not work on me.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I present, as "Exhibit A", your seeking of knowledge and greater understanding in the area of remote control piloting of air vehicles.

If I may focus on just THAT aspect for a moment....

....you claimed to be very well-versed and knowledgeable (already) in that subject, yet I have shown that there exist some misconceptions on your part, as to just what and what can NOT be accomplished in current technology, at least in those technologies that are in the public domain.

If I may elaborate more on this, there ARE reports of experiments that entail using pure thoughts, in links to the airplane, for the purposes of remote control (AND, also, experiments wherein the pilot onboard uses his/her direct thoughts to control the airplane --- these coincide in the experimental study, and the potential technology...)

I believe most of those experiments have failed, so far. BUT, that could be a mis-direction on the part of the various 'black' projects....still, IF any of this was ever successful, it would leak out eventually...

There is a great deal of hay thrashed about in conspiracy theory circles about he powers of the Human mind; programs like the CIA's 'MK-ULTRA' just as one example (The recent major motion picture "Men Who Stare at Goats" touched upon this topic, I think...)

Still, UNTIL (and unless) technology catches up with this assumed potential, the desire to tap into the Human mind in a way that allows freedom from instrumentalities and giving direct mind-control capabilites, I still think we are far, far away in terms of achieving that goal.

"How does this relate to R/C?" you might ask.

Simple.

Anyone who has ever operated a toy, or any device, by R/C will know that perception and perspective of the operator's viewpoint is important.

Whatever "interface" is used will alter both the perspective and perception, and also the reaction times of the operator.

The various senses that we all possess ALSO come into play when we are actually opoerating a device, compared with the "dis-connected" remoteness of operating by remote control. (This applies to simulations as well, it is related).

If I can speak on flying, just again for example.....

I have been flying airplanes for the majority of my life (by now) so I have a fairly good opinion and knowledge base to draw from. (I first began to learn about flying when I was 14. I am now 54...)

In an actual airplane, when you body is there, along with all of your senses, many inputs flood your brain, even if you're not aware at the time.

Flying involves three-dimensions, and we Humans evolved as land animals, so our vestibular systems can deceive us, in certain circumstances. HOWEVER, our visual cortex brain functions can over-ride that particular sense...but IF there is conflict, it induces a symptom knonw as "vertigo", and this is not rocket science, it is a fact of biology.

With experience, practice and training, pilots learn how to "ignore" the conflicts, when they fly, and focus instead ont he visual inputs...incorporating, learning, all of the time so that with enough experience it becomes 'second nature'.

You can experience this with learning to drive a car....it was HARD or difficult, at first, wasn't it? A new motor-skill hand-eye coordination task, required just about ALL of your attention....BUT, after some time and experience under your belt, it's really second-nature, now....isn't it?? (In modern times, today's students in High School have the benefit of simulators before they get behind the wheel...which is my point)

ANYONE who has ever experienced a simulator, whether the car sim, or an airplane sim, will have an entirely DIFFERENT reaction when they get into the "real thing"...

Simulators give a LOT of helpful clues and training experiences that you could not very well re-create in the real world, without danger to the operator or passengers....that is why they are such useful, modern technological tools.

BUT!!! In every case, so far, YOU (the 'operator') is inside the machine, 'immersed' if you will.

YOU may not realize (because I've only touched upon, so far, the visual and vestibular aspects of our senses) how sound, touch, and even SMELL (in limited cases) can interact to provide the full sensory experience, as we Humans operate our machines.

In a remote control scenario too many of those OTHER sensory aspects are missing...it depends, for the operator, almost solely on VISION in order to accom plish the task of controlling the machine by remote.

BECAUSE of this limitation, you will find that MOST R/C aero devices are very, very SLOW, in terms of their airspeeds, in order to provide the Human controllers ample reaction time, due to the nature of how our brains work...

This is NOT the case seen on 9/11. The airplanes on that day were hijacked, and flown by Humans, and there is no other reasonable explanation to replace that simple fact.......





























[edit on 25 January 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


A) Your last entire post is completely off topic for this thread.

B) I never stated I was seeking knowledge of "remote control" devices.

C) This is your idea of dragging a conversation from another thread into this one.

The topic and content, context, and intent of this thread is as the title below states.

Yemen : The Underwear Bomber, Detroit, and Closing Guantanamo

This thread is about that topic and "terrorism", and Government's using it as a political weapon.

You have been here long enough to know better than derailing a thread.

And do not feign innocence because it does not wash with me that you did not know.

This thread is not in the 9/11 Forum Area, so please focus on the topic of the thread.

Unless you can tie all of your entire last comments in the last post in context with this thread, please cease and desist with derailing my thread.

I realize I am not a Moderator but being that I have a statement like this before posting :

Quote from : ATS Pre-Post Screen :

You are an experienced contributor to ATS.

Please be an example for our newer members and make every post matter.

I am following that not so much as a rule but as an example to give to other ATS'ers.

So, in making every post count, I am asking you to respect the thread, if not the content, context, and intent.

I could care less if you respect me, but I have respected you by asking you politely to stay on track.

So, that being said, this is all I am saying in reply to your entire last post, period.

Other than a wholehearted and warm thank you.

Thank you in your part in helping me "Deny Ignorance" on ATS.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Well, then....

I think you are cross posting, and inviting other such cross-posting activiteies.

BECAUSE, notwithstanding this thread area "Middle East Issues" you have, somehow, l think you contribute to some 9/11 aspects as well,,,or elese I am crossing into other threads, and if SO I apologize....

Lines get blurry, at times....BUT the instigators count on that sometimes...am I incorrect?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Well, then....

I think you are cross posting, and inviting other such cross-posting activiteies.

BECAUSE, notwithstanding this thread area "Middle East Issues" you have, somehow, l think you contribute to some 9/11 aspects as well,,,or elese I am crossing into other threads, and if SO I apologize....

Lines get blurry, at times....BUT the instigators count on that sometimes...am I incorrect?

I post on various topics on various forum areas.

I also post links throughout the posts but I overall stay on the original topic.

And I expand upon it as well as the thread takes off with other posts when answering.

The apology was not necessary but I would like to thank you for offering it.

I want to remain amicable with you, weedwhacker, because I do like you.

I stay within the bounds of the T & C as best I can and I am adaptable to those.

I understand, know, and sometimes teach rules and regulations, and policy, procedure, and protocol.

The majority of this is done offline throughout many venues.

I do however follow that throughout my posting on ATS.

Do you believe "terrorism" can be used as a political weapon?

I am not asking if you believe the "Official Story" or "Truther Movement".

I am asking specifically if you believe that "terrorism" is used as a political tool.

Thanks again, weedwhacker, I do appreciate you contributing to this thread.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Now people within the mainstream populace, those we often refer to as "sheeple" are considering refusing the Millimeter Waver Scanner due to not only their modesty, but to not believing the Government about the "Underwear Bomber" event to begin with.

The lies are catching up to the Government almost faster than they can push a false-flag operation into play and sell it to the public.

Intelligence Ties to The Underwear Bomber

This is the kind of stuff I was building to with this thread because of technology and the demand for airport security due to events which coincide through happenstance, or happen through agendas pushed behind the scenes.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]