Oh About Those 32,000 "Leading Scientists" Against Global Climate Change.

reply to post by mc_squared

Are you suggesting a debate forum?

My acceptance would have to be weighed against my RL business, of course, but sometime in the future might be a possibility.

My whole point in posting here is that the video is irrelevant to the science. If you want to discredit a scientist, you must discredit his actions in the actual data used (as in Climategate), establish a history of monetary gain being touted over observations (implied but not proven in the video), or refute his claims either empirically or mathematically (preferred).

So I guess we agree. This thread is as pointless as the video.

P.S.: I will accept your position on Lord Monckton. I really don't listen to him anyway. Just like I don't listen to Al Gore.

TheRedneck

I'm really pleased to see an increasing number of honest scientists having the courage to stand up and say what they really think. The scientific community is renowned for belittling anyone who steps out of line with the accepted theory. It happens in every area of science. I even had it happen to me when I studied Nursing. I objected to some of the guff being spouted by senior staff. I came in for a lot of flak. Whether I was right or not I wasn't around long enough to find out, but the resistance to change was enormous. I think some of these academics think that because they have a few letters after their name they can do no wrong. Of course history shows loads of them have been wrong about tons of things.

Of course only time will tell who is right and who is wrong. Now that the public have woken up to the possibility they are being scammed they will be watching very closely.

The reason it has been so cold lately is because the HAARP installation in Alaska is being used to "push" the jet stream to the south across North America. This is what it was built for. The rest of the garbage about HAARP, like mind control or it being a doomsday weapon is mostly disinformation deliberately put out to confuse people. I believe HAARP is being used in conjunction with the atmospheric spraying program (chemtrails) in order to try to alleviate MMGW. Looks to me like it is working. If you don't believe HAARP can move the jet stream, I suggest you read Bernard Eastlund's patent on it. I have, several times and the physics make sense. Heat up a patch of the ionosphere and the air underneath will move to fill in the void. The upper level air is where the jet stream is. Push the jet stream south and the cold arctic air will follow it. The same thing is being done in Europe using the ionospheric heater in Norway.

reply to post by AllexxisF1

Al Gore never once claimed he was a scientist of any sort. You people made that delusion in your own heads.

Excuse me? Did you watch An Inconvenient Truth? I did. I saw Al Gore explaining science to me. He told me how plants breathe carbon dioxide in during the summer and out during the winter. He told me how CO2 levels coincided with temperature rises in prehistorical times (without mentioning that CO2 lags temperature). He spoke about scientific principles as though he were an expert on the subject.

You're right in that he is not a scientist. You;re technically right in that he never stated the words "I am a scientist". You are, however, wrong that he didn't act as though he were an authority, and that makes him guilty of impersonating a scientist.

Al is the spokesperson for the Global Group On Climate Change. That is all he has ever been since him leaving public service.

Really? Where were you back when AGW supporters were stating he had nothing to do with the AGW agenda?

Perhaps your side should compare notes better.

When you reference Al you are referring to the worlds top climatologists. He speaks for them. No different than the Presidents press secretary.

Please do not tell me what I am talking about. I am well aware of whom I am referring to when I make statements. When I speak of Al Gore, that is exactly who I mean. If I want to talk about Jim Hansen, I will mention Jim Hansen. If I want to talk about the general group of scientists involved with the Global Warming fiasco, I will refer to the CRU and the IPCC.

Lord Mockton isn't a scientist but is a paid shill for big energy. So when you stand by him you stand with Exxon Mobil and company.

I have already stated that I do not 'stand by' either Gore or Monckton. I do not 'stand by' the scientists. What I do stand by is the science... the provable, testable science. That does not include opinions which may or may not be based on potential future profits, nor on poorly written, carefully hidden, questionable computer applications.

I would rather stand by the thousands of the worlds scientists.

I guess we know now where you stand. Thank you for clarifying that.

TheRedneck

reply to post by mc_squared

They do: it's called the backing of the fossil fuel industry

Here's some info for you - I'm NOT backed by the oil companies, and you know what? I think MMGW/MMCC is BS.

I went further than to think it though - I requested the raw data sets from the Met Office.

Do you know what I found?

Curiously, no signs of tampering. At least not in the random data I picked out (I shut my eyes, picked a station, and then proceeded to take all the data for January and July, from 1958 to present, and plot the temps on a graph, and calculate a rolling decadal average).

Know what I found?? THE LAST DECADE SHOWS COOLING.

THIS IS FROM THE RAW DATA!!!!!!

So, when they say that the data doesn't show cooling, THEY ARE WRONG.

All the offiicial data shows warming, YET THE RAW DATA I REQUESTED SHOWS A DISTINCT COOLING TREND.

Game over.

Know something else I noticed? The average had a curious pattern to it, approximately 11 years in length. Know what that just happens to coincide with? THE SOLAR CYCLE.

So this BS that the Sun doesn't influence temperature is BS (which we knew anyway - take the Sun away and Earth becomes a frozen ball).

Two myths debunked in 5 minutes.

The best part is it was their data I used.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by mirageofdeceit]

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


First off: calm down.

Just by your use of the Caps Lock key I can see you are far too excitable to have a level-headed discussion with, no matter how much you seem to think you just single-handedly debunked AGW with one random data set.

So speaking of which - maybe use some of that zen-time to compare your ingenious method to the amazing phenomenon of cherry picking.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Heh well I meant more of a forum where only the big kids could hash it out - yeah that sounds horribly elitist, but it would really enhance the signal to noise ratio on this topic.

But a debate might be cool too - how does that forum work? I don't know if I have the time either...tons of work to do that I already procrastinate too much by hanging out with all you crazy conspiracy loonies instead

Also - that video is only pointless if you put it in the context of science. If you put it in the context of propaganda - which is an unfortunate but nonetheless very real issue of both sides of AGW - then I think it stands.

reply to post by mc_squared


I am calm.

I'm sick of the BS.

I didn't cherry pick - I took a complete set of data, and chose locations at random. After the 7th site of seeing the same general trend I was getting bored. It was only confirming what I already thought.

I'm not out to convince others. Bash away.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by Wires
The reason it has been so cold lately is because the HAARP installation in Alaska is being used to "push" the jet stream to the south across North America. This is what it was built for. The rest of the garbage about HAARP, like mind control or it being a doomsday weapon is mostly disinformation deliberately put out to confuse people. I believe HAARP is being used in conjunction with the atmospheric spraying program (chemtrails) in order to try to alleviate MMGW. Looks to me like it is working. If you don't believe HAARP can move the jet stream, I suggest you read Bernard Eastlund's patent on it. I have, several times and the physics make sense. Heat up a patch of the ionosphere and the air underneath will move to fill in the void. The upper level air is where the jet stream is. Push the jet stream south and the cold arctic air will follow it. The same thing is being done in Europe using the ionospheric heater in Norway.

I think you are 100% correct.
I found the HAARP installation in Norway using Google Earth.
Do you want the coordinates?

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Post em dude till we take a look

Originally posted by mc_squared

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Al Gore Sr. left the farm and got into bed heavily with Occidental. He made a fortune through kickbacks. That much is common knowledge around these parts, even by those who still support Al Gore.

Yeah great - and Luke Skywalker's father was Darth Vader. So for anyone who hasn't seen the movie just save yourself the trouble because this clearly means Luke ultimately joined the dark side. The End.

Actually no...Luke brought Vader back from the DARK side...

yet another thing you don't know # about...but talk loudly about so that the weak minded think you do

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as far as my statement about all of the planets in the solar system heating up...pretty easy to find the data on this

not doing it for you though

however I am certain your mind is made up, so I doubt you would actually look for anything that may shatter your people caused it view

Thanks be to Tetragrammaton

reply to post by AllexxisF1


you remind me of my girl when u speak because everything u say is bedsides the point. AL GORE is the worldwide spokesperson for climate change in particular GLOBAL WARMING which has been proven false. Lets say the scientist dont exist, well the data does the forgery and the cover up of date does. Climate Change is happening and we are witnesses to it in the Northern Hemisphere but its not happening the way it has been taught to us now for over 20 years. Its getting colder...now lets see how u can alter the data to prove it was mans fault...not enough CO?

I love this because now that the weather is changing the people who subscribed to Global Warming are tryin to say that we are being saved by HAARP and the government wit these "experiments". It took us about a hundred years to mess up the planet they say but in little to no time they could make it cold again HA! this is like watching a bad movie

reply to post by Cambury

Yeah, it has been getting colder for the last 10 years.
Oh, BTW when did the Norway ,USA and Russian HAARP come on line???
Well maybe it's just a coincidence?

Since it apparently works, can we all stop buying those stupid carbon credits?

I think now would be a good time to feed Al Gore to the polar bears on the
north pole.
He can take his "hockey stick graph" and stick it.

Originally posted by bigyin
Man has no effect on nature.

And the award for most ignorant and uninformed statement made on ATS outside a religion-based thread goes toooooo...

Seriously? of course man has an effect on nature. Quite a large effect as well. I suppose that's a really uncomfortable thing to think about, but it really is the truth.

You can't go through life pretending that because Al Gore is a dip and it snowed in Corpus christi that climate change is a fake. You can't ignore that the exponential increase of carbon dioxide through burning of fossil fuels is going to have an effect, particularly while at the same time, oceanic pollution and deforestation are steadily eroding the planet's best methods of sequestering this carbon.

I don't know what the "official" term is for when someone plainly sees the cause and the effect, and refuses to realize any connection to the two. But i'm just going to call it "stupidity."

You can't trust anybody linked with the oil industry.

Al Gore’s Oligarchy
www.democracynow.org...

The history of the Gore family and Occidental Petroleum have been intertwined for generations. Al Gore Sr. was such a loyal political ally that Occidental’s founder and longtime CEO, Armand Hammer, liked to say that he had Gore “in my back pocket.” When Gore Sr. left the Senate in 1970, Hammer gave him a half a million dollar a year job at an Occidental subsidiary and a seat on the company’s board of directors. Money from Occidental and its subsidiaries formed the basis of the Gore family fortune.

And of course the oil industry will make millions burying CO2 with the added benefit of squeezing out more oil from their unproductive wells.

Especially Gore benefactor Occidental, the world's largest CO2 operator.

Occidental and BP to Evaluate CO2 Sequestration Options for California
newsroom.oxy.com...

Occidental, the world's largest CO2 operator, is successfully injecting more than one billion cubic feet of CO2 per day

CO2 flooding is a proven enhanced oil recovery technique in which the CO2 is injected deep into oil reservoirs with minimal environmental impact to reduce the viscosity of the trapped oil so it flows more easily to the well bores, increasing production and extending the economic life of mature oil fields

Upon completion of the project, the CO2 would be permanently stored, or geologically sequestered, in the reservoir. CO2 injection is a tertiary (third) recovery method applied in mature oil fields after primary methods have run their course.

So instead of them having to pay for CO2 to use for oil recovery, WE WILL PAY THEM to take it off our hands. Very clever.

If you support Al Gore you are in bed with Occidental Oil and British Petroleum.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Well, hello again Fox! Long time no debate; I hope you have been well.

While I cannot disagree with your assessment that man has an effect on his environment (as does every single life-form known), I have to take you to task on one thing: can you explain what you mean by an "exponential" rise in carbon dioxide levels? Present levels are right now, after 100 years of industrialization, around 380 ppmv, as opposed to an assumed 280 ppmv prior to that time, an increase of 100 ppmv (0.01% of atmospheric volume). Present levels are far below the 'toxicity' level of 5000 ppmv, and well below the levels regularly used in greenhouses to promote plant vitality and growth.

Also, since the majority of the CO2 supplied by human activity comes from the production of energy via combustion, any carbon dioxide future increase would be directly tied to that energy consumption. Oil is supplied in a fairly regulated manner now, so that means that it will not be responsible for "exponential" increases, and overall efficiency of power production is increasing, resulting in less fuel being consumed. This latter point indicates the exact opposite of an "exponential" increase.

TheRedneck

reply to post by mc_squared

Actually, you do not have to "cherry-pick" to debunk AGW.

network.nationalpost.com...

This AGW is not real science, only data manipulation.
Check out these videos

www.youtube.com...

It all ties together, but you have to use your head.

And the Occidental partnership did not end with Al's pappy. Sorry for the inconvenience.

In late 1997, Al Gore supported the federal government’s three and a half billion dollar sale of the Elk Hills oil field in Bakersfield, California, to Occidental Petroleum. This was the largest privatization of federal property in US history.

www.democracynow.org...

For those unfamiliar, Democracy Now is an ultra-liberal/progressive, pro-environmental news source.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Deny Arrogance]