Talk of Armed Revolution on ATS Inappropriate

Before I open this can of worms, I will say that I absolutely, unequivicably believe in the Right of Free Speech. I believe that ATS members should be able to voice opinions that are controversial and not within the boundaries of the mainstream media here. That's part of what ATS is all about. However, as an ATS member and as an indivdual, I am concerned by the amount of posts that are either directly or indirectly calling for an armed revolution here in the United States, and the inferrences towards the concept of the President meeting an untimely end. I'm not referring to average people who are fed-up with our government, corruption, and "the system". I am one of those people. But there is a certain tone with some posts, especially ones which advance the idea that something would, should or will "happen" to The President of the United States, that I find disturbing as a citizen.
ATS has been working hard lately on keeping insults, trolling, and general rude behavior towards other members to a minimum, and has in fact instituted a "No Tolerance" stance towards such behavior on other threads. However, while the Moderators don't tolerate personal insults or off-topic comments, they allow people to openly advocate armed, violent revolution and the "concept" that our duly- elected Commander in Chief be assassinated. In my opinion, this is inconsistent with, if not the letter, the spirit of ATS Terms and Conditions.

You can't call another member an idiot, but you can call for armed violence and a political coup via political assassination. I'm having trouble reconciling this.

I don't want to be over-ran by the conservatives here. I know how you feel, I've been reading the threads. You won't change my opinion, and if you want to trash me personally for voicing my opinion, then go check your hypocrisy at the door. I know of course that I've opened the door to being ridiculed and such, but that doesn't matter.

It's illegal to call for the armed over-throw of our government, as well as for advancing the idea of killing the President. We are a Nation of Laws for a reason.

You don't like how the last election turned out? Become more politically active. Are all politicians inherently corrupt? Run for office and give us someone who is honest. You don't like the current administration's legislation? Draft some legislation and present that to your elected Representatives, but please stop whining and threatening violence. At least here. Say whatever you want down in your bunker or in the church parking lot.

If anyone else here feels the way I do about this, please speak up and lend me some support. I know there must be other people here who feel the way I do about this issue. If you disagree with me, fine, we are fellow citizens and I have thick skin. I can handle it. If you just want to trash me because I've spoken from my heart, then insert your favorite bone-cutting insult here and apply it to yourself.

I'm curious about how the Mods and even SkepticOverlord feel about what I've said. Please feel free to jump in.




[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

I don't think you have to worry ...

This "Revolution" these nuts talk about, is just an excuse for them to gather and play their "I am a patriot, i want to live in the 18th century. i love the founding fathers" games

Nobody is taking them seriously .. they are a joke ..

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Polynomial C]

If someone is calling fellow citizens to arms and ready to revolt against a new tyrannical government, and enough are willing to rise up and answer that call.... More power to em'

Besides, words alone without real actions are just that.

I don't think you or ATS need to worry about anyone actually acting out on any large scale armed revolution... As this is the internet, and people can be gods and courageous warriors ready for battle here, but in the real world will simply keep quiet.

If anyone is seriously threatening the life of our president, or any member of the government that is another issue, that legal authorities can deal with.

You should turn them in.

I'm not "worried". I don't think they have a snowball's chance of actually doing anything, but the content falls outside the boundary of civil discourse. Many good men and women have given their lives to protect the system that we have. It is far from perfect, and the world can be an unfair, uncaring place, but assassinate our leader because you don't like his policies? PLEASE. Check out one of the "Hot" threads in this forum. You'll see what I'm talking about. I don't want to name names or mention the name of the thread, but it is a current one.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

Originally posted by moonzoo7
Before I open this can of worms, I will say that I absolutely, unequivicably believe in the Right of Free Speech. I believe that ATS members should be able to voice opinions that are controversial and not within the boundaries of the mainstream media here. That's part of what ATS is all about. However, as an ATS member andas an indivdual, I am concerned by the amount of posts that are either directly or indirectly calling for an armed revolution here in the United States, and the inferrences towards the concept of the President meeting an untimely end. I'm not referring to average people who are fed-up with our government, corruption, and "the system". I am one of those people. But there is a certain tone with some posts, especially ones which advance the idea that something would, should or will "happen" to The President of the United States, that I find disturbing as a citizen.
ATS has been working hard lately on keeping insults, trolling, and general rude behavior towards other members to a minimum, and has in fact instituted a "No Tolerance" stance towards such behavior on other threads. However, while the Moderators don't tolerate personal insults or off-topic comments, they allow people to openly advocate armed, violent revolution and the "concept" that our duly- elected Commander in Chief be assassinated. In my opinion, this is inconsistent with, if not the letter, the spirit of ATS Terms and Conditions.

You can't call another member an idiot, but you can call for armed violence and a political coup via political assassination. I'm having trouble reconciling this.

I don't want to be over-ran by the conservatives here. I know how you feel, I've been reading the threads. You won't change my opinion, and if you want to trash me personally for voicing my opinion, then go check your hypocrisy at the door. I know of course that I've opened the door to being ridiculed and such, but that doesn't matter.

It's illegal to call for the armed over-throw of our government, as well as for advancing the idea of killing the President. We are a Nation of Laws for a reason.

You don't like how the last election turned out? Become more politically active. Are all politicians inherently corrupt? Run for office and give us someone who is honest. You don't like the current administration's legislation? Draft some legislation and present that to your elected Representatives, but please stop whining and threatening violence. At least here. Say whatever you want down in your bunker or in the church parking lot.

If anyone else here feels the way I do about this, please speak up and lend me some support. I know there must be other people here who feel the way I do about this issue. If you disagree with me, fine, we are fellow citizens and I have thick skin. I can handle it. If you just want to trash me because I've spoken from my heart, then insert your favorite bone-cutting insult here and apply it to yourself.

I'm curious about how the Mods and even SkepticOverlord feel about what I've said. Please feel free to jump in.




[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

Just remember you have no right to free speech here on ATS...

I dislike moonzoo7 idea. That we should censor ourselves and not talk about this or that. For the record I do believe it is illegal to threaten anyones life directly, be it online or in real life. I also believe the mods here would take appropriate action if some one made that mistake. Much like what happened to one lone nut at Glp who made the mistake of advertising his intentions.

Threatening an individuals life and talking about revolution is not the same. I maybe skeptical about the notion of revolution but we have a right and a duty to talk about it. If it is a taboo subject we might as well turn this into an armed conflict right this second. Thankfully it is not a taboo subject. This is not the Socialist States of America and we do still have the freedom to speak. Yes it IS legal to speak about armed revolution, the what ifs of martial law, or any other variance of the subject matter. The right to free speech is not just a constitutional right but one that is God given. Even if our speech is moderated by Ats.

If you find the subject matter objectionable just do yourself the favor and skip over it. People have been talking about revolution before the internet was invented. You might consider some literature of the black panther party for your next book burning or Sunday social. If you take anything from this take this: Obedient silence is not patriotic!

Originally posted by Polynomial C
I don't think you have to worry ...

This "Revolution" the nuts talk about, is just an excuse for them to gather and play their "I am a patriot, i want to live in the 18th century. i love the founding fathers" games

Nobody is taking them seriously .. they are a joke ..

so much of a joke they get more ridiculous on facebook...you should read some of their posts, they look like everyone is going to hold hands and march towards Washington dressed like Jefferson and stuff. You and I have friends who express opinions of mass insurgency but when the computer's off, they just sit their fat bottoms on the couch and watch tv.
it's a fashion.

Sedition and Treason are constitutional crimes that can carry the most severe penalty allowed for and prescribed by law.

The United States Government and most especially the United States President are extremely well protected in their person and property. The President of the United States is the most protected and secured individual on the planet.

It’s kind of like picking a fight with Mister T…”I pity the fool!”

You might be suffering from something that most Statists do and that is that warm fuzzy identification and empathy for your Masters.

During the assault on the OPEC meeting in Stockholm Sweden in the 1970’s this feeling of identifying with your captors and tormentors forever after became known as the Stockholm Syndrome.

A good psychologist can help you overcome Stockholm Syndrome, so rest assured there is hope for everyone.

Sadly a good psychologist will not help people overcome a bad and corrupt government.

Sedition and Treason are constitutional crimes but so are High Crimes and Misdemeanors. The last President to be impeached for High Crimes and Misdemeanors by the United States Congress was William Jefferson Clinton found guilty of Perjury, lying to Congress and the American people.

Thanks to corrupt partisan and corporate politics Mister Clinton was allowed to serve out the remainder of his term even after being impeached.

The laws in America, currently over 600,000 of them are no longer effective as many of them are unconstitutional and many of them are selectively applied. Most especially the laws that are selectively applied are those ones that are designed to protect the nation and the citizens from despots, tyrants and thieves.

Take a look around, the nation is embroiled in two unlawful wars for oil and religion and drugs. That’s not even counting the War on Drugs. The nation’s treasury is being looted and is 11 trillion dollars in debt. Corporate entities who have committed massive frauds and Ponzi Schemes aren’t being sent to jail but given Government bailouts of borrowed Tax Payer money that the Tax Payers themselves have been forced to borrow to lend them. Secret searches, wiretapping, spying and courts are taking place in America…

And you are worried about someone talking about watering the Tree of Liberty with the blood of despots and tyrants?
I would be too as presently there are so many of the despots and tyrants we will need a second coming of Noah and the Arc to prevent ourselves from drowning in that prodigious overflow and bounty.

Your Masters are proud of you; an extra half ration at the FEMA camps is in order. Keep up the good work!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


No need to get so hostile!

Someone just needed to start another thread to try and bash the people fed up with their government.

I would go further but you put it succinct enough.

The idea of an organized armed revolution is ludicrous. Any organized group would surely be infiltrated and neutralized well before any actions could be taken. I think the real discussion is about Americans defending their rights and the rights of their families against those in our Government that have abandoned the US Constitution. The question as to whether or not this would require an armed defense is a very real question that each of us must answer for ourselves. TPTB can enforce tyranny with weapons and does so at will. What then are our options if we choose not to comply with tyranny.

I don't have a problem personally with expressions of revolt. The Oktober revolution didn't need the internet to incite the population into revolution. it's sometimes nice to know that if some of these guys did see the march past there window, which is sadly how close it would have to get for them to actually move, they would join in. If we do sit on our arses for the next 10, 20 or more years we have no right to complain about what is going on; if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

These people would have been tried for treason in previous times, just for expressing the want to take up arms against their government. Maybe we do need a revolution. I think most of the people who say these things are more inclined to "see what happens" and not start anything at all.

A lot of focus is on 12/2012, obviously, and I can't help but wonder if (when?) nothing comes to pass then and we're still here complaining, will these guys actually carry out what they preach?

The problem is 1 guy screaming revolution is a nut...

1 million people screaming revolution are going to be heard.

reply to post by Flakey


"What if?" conversations about revolution, not a problem. I really want to point out the thread and the post to which I'm referring, but I'm not trying to start a thread war here. I'm not going to snipe another thread or post from here. I have a strong opinion about what was said, and instead of trying to argue with the OP, I decided to start my own thread.

Silent obedience? I referred to no such thing. We should speak up. Actually, I feel that it is the responsibilty of a citizen, especially of a Democracy, to speak up and be heard when they're not being properly represented.

Inferring that I'm a socialist and a book burner because I feel that members shouldn't advocate ( with tones of seriousness, not "What If" scenarios ), violent regime change is part of what I'm talking about. NOT wanting a violent revolution is socialist or fascist?

The last time I checked, the Founding Fathers drafted the Constitution through vigorous debate and compromise. The document didn't fall out of the sky with a thunderclap and flash of lightning.

This is what I predicted. If you disagree with me, that's fine. Your rebuttal is welcome, but you resort to questioning my patriotism, and hint that I'm somehow "un-american". Grab a Q-Tip and clean the Faux News out of your ears.

Originally posted by moonzoo7


The last time I checked, the Founding Fathers drafted the Constitution through vigorous debate and compromise. The document didn't fall out of the sky with a thunderclap and flash of lightning.

You left out the part about all the death and armed revolution that got them to that point. The Constitution was drafted AFTER the revolution was finished and it was done over bodies of many dead men. You should consider your historical quotes with more thought before you share them.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Flakey]

reply to post by Polynomial C


I agree with this 100%. These people are delesuinal and live in a fantasy world. When you start presenting them with logical reasons as to why they don't make sense, and why they are wasting their time, you'll be treated to many lulz.

to talk about government overthrow it is illegal and nearly impossible

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Dillion]

reply to post by moonzoo7


Can you site any historical example where appeasement was the right decision?
Your experience isn't elloborated in your OP.
Some of us may even come over to your camp if we can read about the successful cases.


[edit on 2-1-2010 by Granite]

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by Polynomial C

 

I agree with this 100%. These people are delesuinal and live in a fantasy world. When you start presenting them with logical reasons as to why they don't make sense, and why they are wasting their time, you'll be treated to many lulz.

You do not present logical reasons. You immeadiately resort to an us vs them mentality and get pissed off at us and mispell simple words and claim to be of higher intelligence and logic. You don't even argue the merits of well thought out arguments, you avoid critical thinking if it is required on your part.

Not that I'm saying it's right, but it happened with President Bush all of the time. Now that Obama is in office, is he special? People have called for stupid things for every president, what makes now any different, he's just not that special, the President is the President after all, or does it only matter when a black or a demoncrat is in office?

reply to post by moonzoo7


Is your opinion based on your personal political views? In other words, do you believe the discussion of revolution is "inappropriate" because you are satisfied with the current path of the country? Or, do you believe it is never appropriate? If so, is that based solely on your view that

It's illegal to call for the armed over-throw of our government...

?

Either way, have you ever given serious consideration of what series of events would have to transpire, for you to say enough?

Personally, I think it is healthy for our country, for our "leaders" (and I use the term loosely) to know that there are lines they shall not cross, without being confronted by many who do hold dear the Blessings of Liberty. Consider what transgressions you might be facing, if all remained silent.

You won't change my opinion, and if you want to trash me personally for voicing my opinion, then go check your hypocrisy at the door.

Not attempting to "trash" you, but, when you posted this, was it not intended to change the minds of others? Either the posters or the ATS staff? Not attempting to change your mind, but I do offer the above for your honest consideration.

What it boils down to is that some people think it's OK to murder people they disagree with. They guise this in patriotism. It's murder. They feel a need to justify their barbarism with extended BS about freedom, the founders etc. But they still want to kill people because of their politics.
There are dangerous crazy people out there. People that simply cannot accept Obama as president. They post here about him being a traitor, a Muslim etc. They are thugs that seek to usurp the Democratic process and The Constitution because they cannot tolerate their fellow Americans.
They don't give a crap about The Constitution or anybody's freedom but their own.