Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier

Unfortunately, in most jurisdictions, if not all. LEO's (;aw enforcement officers) have not been trained enough in civilian CCW laws and rights...Expect to be treated as an armed suspect, do the right things....As a former LEO (now a civilian) that has a CCW permit, don't confront,educate and act as you are someone helping them and protecting yourself....

reply to post by habu71


Star for you. As I said I am a current LEO and with 9 years experiance I know the CC laws, but your right, MANY new guys or even green guys (3ish years) don't take the time to learn the actual law on CC. And no, police academies do not teach these guys about CC other than telling them the carrier needs a permit.

Originally posted by ninthaxis
Ok, I have only posted a handful of news articles here at ATS, and I cannot believe that no one has found this article to be disturbing? This is an extremely important ruling from the court of appeals and no one has a problem with it? Just what exactly has happened to this ATS community while I was gone?

Of course it's disturbing, so are cops who taser folks over traffic infractions!!!
So are those one eyed robotic money thieves installed at street corners to punish people for not stopping at the corner like a trained doggy.

You mean you haven't seen the PC crowd?

The mind control and brainwashing IS working, but not on everyone.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of them towns have ringers/shills just on the lookout for bulges to cause trouble.

The powers that be want us ticked off and defenseless, not to mention broke.

Remember their slogan, order out of chaos!

reply to post by rcwj1975


What is the law for carrying a gun in your pocket. I have heard that it has to be in a holster if you carry it in your pocket.

Originally posted by MBF
reply to post by rcwj1975

 

What is the law for carrying a gun in your pocket. I have heard that it has to be in a holster if you carry it in your pocket.

I doubt being in a pocket vs a holster matters, concealed is concealed , ..but laws differ depending on State. Check out Calif 12025 PC for an example.

12025 PC is one of the nuttier laws, carrying a loaded gun is only a misdemeanor.. while a double edged knife is a felony (12020 PC)... go figure.

reply to post by MBF


Govtflu is right. It doesn't matter if it is in a holster or pocket. Now that is here in GA, but some other state COULD have a section covering the way it must be carried. My guess is almost every other state is like us and allows you to use your descretion.

Just make sure that anywhere you carry it, you carry it there all the time and train drawing it, or come the day you need it, your screwed.

Originally posted by MBF

Originally posted by rcwj1975
We do not seize your weapon unless there are circumstances that dictate we do.

And what would that be, because I have no intention of giving up my gun?

How about the officer not being able to positively verify you are allowed to carry concealed? would you expect the police trust some random street dudes word? based on an easily faked un-verifiable card?

People think some 8 hour gun safety class & CCW card make you special.. but to a street cop you're just another Joe with a story to tell... pushing a Holstein sled necessitates contacting almost nothing but liars & deniers who also have stories.. if the officer can verify you're not just another FOS Joe..great have a nice day, otherwise it's not the cops job to take any chances with his/her life, yours or the community.

I don't care what what your story is, who you are, or what official looking documents you hand me.. if I can't verify it in the field, it's bull# until proven otherwise. I've personally seen fake drivers licenses, money, passports, prescriptions, guard cards, gun permits, police ID, badges, military ID, license plates, VINs, serial numbers.. you name it, it's been faked.

The problem lies with the state, and govt in general, for enacting goofy unconstitutional random carry laws, and creating a confusing CCW permit system that the cop on the street cant easily verify.

Like I said, in Cal it's simple: although the officers are already alerted after running the license plate... hand the officer your license & ID card, s/he can then verify it via police radio, telephone, MDT or all three.. no fuss, no hassle... on your way in minutes.

That's a stupid excuse. Just because you have a problem doing your job doesn't qualify you to make such judgement calls. If your computer goes down and your walkie runs out of batteries that doesn't excuse you to snatch up drivers licenses either. Wheter it's pure incompetence or lack or resources or whatever.

I have seized handguns from people who DIDN'T have their CC permit on them during traffic stops. This of course should be logical, but I am on ATS..lol. All that happens in this regard is the weapon is taken in for safekeeping and as soon as you can swing by the precinct with your issued permit, you get back your gun.

So would you confiscate someones car if they'd forgot their license home and for some reason you wouldn't be able to verify that? Also you do that even if you have no reason to suspect faul play just because there happens to be a gun?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
So would you confiscate someones car if they'd forgot their license home and for some reason you wouldn't be able to verify that? Also you do that even if you have no reason to suspect faul play just because there happens to be a gun?

Well considering a car is MUCH harder to hide after killing someone with it, and MUCH easier to keep track of...NO. Yes I do...and if your carrying a pistol on your waist, under clothing and NO papers for that gun...thats simply stupid. I am all for gun rights...but todays society doesn't allow for that anymore.

Tell you what...when I can wake up and NOT read how some 10 year old was shot to death for wearing the wrong colors to school, or wake up and NOT hear how some innocent store clerk was shot dead by robbers even AFTER they got the cash and cigs....THEN I'll be more incline to let people walk around with guns WITHOUT proper paperwork.

This isn't grandpa's world anymore....I wish it was...but its not.

[edit on 1/4/2010 by rcwj1975]

When I have my gun on me, I have my permit with me. I will refuse to give it to a cop because some of the cops are the criminals. One has even sent word to me that I need to drop my pursuit of the man that I have problems with because cops are involved with him in some of his criminal activity and it would be real easy for me to be found dead. I do trust some around here, but not that many.

My understanding from a man that I purchased one gun from is that it would be better to have it in a holster if you carry it in your pocket. Thanks for the info rcwj1975.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by MBF]

[edit on 4-1-2010 by MBF]

Originally posted by Redwookieaz
If a cop jumps out with a gun drawn on me like that I will not hesitate to shoot him right between his eyes!

You would be dead shortly afterwords, capitol punishment or another officer.

Originally posted by ninthaxis
It seems to me that this cop thought he was catching someone doing illegal things, and when he wasn't, his pride kept him from admitting it. So to make himself appear right, he confiscated the attorney's firearm just because he could.

You hit a hole in one with that, usually rookies are the ones that do something this stupid.

Originally posted by MBF
If my CCW permit is ever revoked, all they will have done is make me a criminal. I feel that we have the right to carry our weapons. Do you think the true criminals will give up their guns?

All you will have to do is move to Virginia where open carry is allowed with little to no problems(except northern VA it gets fishy up there).

Secure

Since this came up on my list again I will post my thoughts again.

The 2nd amendment-

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If I was the lawyer, this would be going right to the SC.

As of yet, when I have opened carried and have been approached by officers they are usually polite and ask questions. No problem.

Once in awhile you get an idiot that wants to push their agenda. I actually had one tell me I should leave my guns at home and call a policeman if and when I need help. That was kind of funny. Like cops are their to help us and not just enforce statutes.

If you want to carry, carry, but do not be an idiot.

If a cop is an idiot, tell them they are an idiot and protect your rights, if they attempt to infringe on your rights, file charges. And pursue it to the furthest extent of the law.

Not to get off topic but as an officer myself, I wish more people would go and get their concealed carry permits, especially people that work in convenience stores. I cant tell you the number off times I have responded to a call and someone that was carrying had the suspect at gunpoint.

Secure

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure


You are right, the problem is not people carrying guns. The problem is criminals carrying guns and normal law abiding citizens not. There was a store robbery here about a couple of weeks ago where two store owners were shot and one of them killed. The suspect was killed this week by a cop when he was holding someone hostage. We have to be able to protect ourselves from this scum.

One of the key foundations of the NWO is control of the legal system. As time goes on, more and more Illuminati are positioned into key roles. The BAR is already very corrupt. Judges are very corrupt. Your right, weapons permits are a violation of constitutional obligations of the state. This becomes a rational for pointing a weapon and confiscating a fire arm on "Suspicion" or "Probable Cause". Just remember with TSHTF a good source of weapons are the police.

Originally posted by GovtFlu

How about the officer not being able to positively verify you are allowed to carry concealed? would you expect the police trust some random street dudes word? based on an easily faked un-verifiable card?

People think some 8 hour gun safety class & CCW card make you special.. but to a street cop you're just another Joe with a story to tell... pushing a Holstein sled necessitates contacting almost nothing but liars & deniers who also have stories.. if the officer can verify you're not just another FOS Joe..great have a nice day, otherwise it's not the cops job to take any chances with his/her life, yours or the community.

I don't care what what your story is, who you are, or what official looking documents you hand me.. if I can't verify it in the field, it's bull# until proven otherwise. I've personally seen fake drivers licenses, money, passports, prescriptions, guard cards, gun permits, police ID, badges, military ID, license plates, VINs, serial numbers.. you name it, it's been faked.

The problem lies with the state, and govt in general, for enacting goofy unconstitutional random carry laws, and creating a confusing CCW permit system that the cop on the street cant easily verify.

Like I said, in Cal it's simple: although the officers are already alerted after running the license plate... hand the officer your license & ID card, s/he can then verify it via police radio, telephone, MDT or all three.. no fuss, no hassle... on your way in minutes.

Who is the injured party making complaint against me for CARRYING a gun; with or without a permit? There are people on the streets who are black belt certified in karate. Legally, THEY are deadly weapons. Cops can't verify that either. You have to wait until they DO something other than walk down the street with their potentially lethal selves.

Lots of military guys have been trained to kill with their bare hands. Can't verify that either until they DO something worthy of arrest. Being armed harms no one. Not only that, even if the person did have an easily verifiable CCP, the armed guy could be on his way to the grassy knoll intending to kill everyone that crosses his path. The officer has not "saved" the community by verifying that a piece of paper was issued by the state and taxes were collected.

The problem I see is this. If there is a second amendment, nobody carrying a weapon should ever be questioned about it unless there is reasonable suspicion that they have committed a crime or were in the process of doing so.

As we see in this case, most courts these days are run by people who would like nothing better than to see the Constitution go away as it only hinders their work.

LEO's say that they support the 2nd amendment, but in reality if you are carrying a weapon whether concealed or in the open, the first thing they are going to do is challenge you to see if indeed you meet all the secondary laws & criteria that allow you to carry a weapon - the second amendment is an afterthought - as has been said by others in this thread who agree cc laws are themselves seen as violation. Otherwise LEO's would only take your weapon if they suspected you are a suspect in a known crime. Instead carrying a gun makes you a potential suspect without proof otherwise - which means you must force them to allow you to exercise your second amendment rights after they were first denied.

Now, I realize that the LEO's here at ATS are doing what they've been trained to do and I respect that. I'm not challenging them personally, I'm just questioning the laws & policies that essentially disregard the second amendment or what I believe its intent.

Today's status quo is, guilty until proven otherwise.


[edit on 20-1-2010 by verylowfrequency]

Perhaps soon you will have your child confiscated if you cannot produce a birth certificate on the spot when one of the lords of the earths demands it of you.

It will be legal and the officers who do it will "just be following department policy" (like when they engage in electrotorture).

Eventually the child will be returned (maybe), but not after spending time enduring circumstances which are statistically shown to increase the likelihood that they will be sexually abused (i.e. molested by a government employee while in government custody).

*I could be wrong, but most cops would enforce such a law.

*anyhoo keep your kids birth certificates handy, because if my crazy idea comes to fruition neigh on every cop in the land will enforce it - because it'll be the Law.