How literal is the bible?

Ok im a aithest and maybe after reading my point here you might feel the same and you might not. But hear me out.

Jesus Christ walking on water. This is not possible physcially possible. Raising the dead and healing the sick. All of these things arent possible. What made him so special other then supposidly being gods son?

Im sorry i think jesus should he existed didnt have any kinda powers. If so why didnt other people have these powers. I really think the bible is a book of trickery. I cant walk on water. But its because of gravity. So the laws of the world would still apply to jesus wouldnt they. Wouldnt gravity affect his ability to walk on water? I just dont think theres any way a man could make the earth as big as it is in 6 days. A man a spirit whatever.

THe reason im a aithest is because i dont believe god has powers like what people say or jesus did the stuff they said he did.


So god could do anything? He could turn a stick a wood into a loaf of bread. Now think about this. What is wood composed of? And what is bread composed of. How is that possible that he could do this. Do you know the implications of the atoms and stuff involved especially the missing things that would be required to make this happen? This is the reason why i dont believe in god or jesus. I think the bible wasnt meant to be literal or maybe its not even a real bible maybe its made up.

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. ... Just my thoughts....

It is not a literal document and it was not intended to be taken at face value.

Its wisdom must be earned through analysis of the struggle of the Jews and the parables and life of Jesus.

There are many things in the Bible that were meant to be understood in the context in which they were written. For example, contemporaries of Jesus expected his return within their lifetimes and much of their writing makes reference and allusion to the Roman empire.

This doesn't devalue the Bible for me at all. It's a holy book full of wisdom and spirituality.

It's just not a book full of historical facts and scientific truths.

It just isn't!

Originally posted by ImplausibleDeniability

It is not a literal document and it was not intended to be taken at face value.

It wasn't that long ago you would have been considered a heretic, tortured until you confessed and burned at the stake or worse.

www.jesusneverexisted.com...

I think the Bible can be taken literally in certain ways. Once it was the business of libberal readers to make the Bible co-incide with science. Then it became the work of literalists to argue that their "fundamentalist" interpretations over-rides science. I think it is the latter veiw that upsets so many people. However, there is also a mystical interpretation. Everything in secret societies has two meanings, and much of the Bible has another meaning for the occultist.

Originally posted by whaaa
It wasn't that long ago you would have been considered a heretic, tortured until you confessed and burned at the stake or worse.

Too true! Thank "God" that people who believe in him so fervently they're willing to ignore the Golden Rule no longer control things down here on Earth.

Originally posted by halfoldman
I think the Bible can be taken literally in certain ways. Once it was the business of libberal readers to make the Bible co-incide with science. Then it became the work of literalists to argue that their "fundamentalist" interpretations over-rides science. I think it is the latter veiw that upsets so many people. However, there is also a mystical interpretation. Everything in secret societies has two meanings, and much of the Bible has another meaning for the occultist.

True. It's important to remember that Paul introduced Christianity to the Greeks and Romans as a new mystery cult rather than as an offshoot of ultraorthodox Judaism.

That said, mysticism and hidden meanings have been a part of every holy book ever written. There's the message it tells the general public, and there's the 'true message' that only the initiated can perceive.

Or so the story goes...from today all the way back to the Egyptians and beyond.

Every word is exactly what happened and what will happen. What it says should be taken in all aspects as the truth and no words should be altered.
We do have the ability Jesus had but we are all to stupid to apply it. We can move mountains and are thoughts do control actions.
What do you think God can make a human and then he limits his son from walking on water or healing?

Originally posted by saralee
Every word is exactly what happened and what will happen.

This is nonsense. Proven untrue time and again outside of the Bible and proven untrue by the Bible itself due to its numerous contradictions and different interpretations of the Gospels. They can't all be perfectly true as they are all different.

What it says should be taken in all aspects as the truth and no words should be altered.

The bible has been translated, interpreted, edited, and changed by many many human hands for thousands of years.

How can you possibly say such obviously untrue things, let alone believe them?

Or are you trolling?

reply to post by saralee



Saralee, could you help me with some problems I'm having with literal interpretation of the Bible?

Leviticus 24:44 says that I may possess slaves both male and female, provided they are purchased from a neighboring nation. A friend of mine claims this only applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Why can't I own Canadians?

In Exodus 21:7 it says I can sell my daughter into slavery. What would be a fair market price today?

Lev.15: 19-24 tells us a woman having her period is unclean. How can I tell?

Lev. 21:20 tells us that we can't approach the alter of God if we have a defect of sight. I wear glasses; am I doomed?www.snopes.com...

Thanks for your help!



[edit on 27-10-2009 by whaaa]

You are awesome and your post is hilarious.

Second line for truth!!!

Language is imperfect for discussing deep religious truths. Not useless -- but imperfect.

Its a bit like the trouble map-makers have projecting the round globe of the earth onto a flat, 2-dimensional map. The sizes and shapes of continents get distorted. Greenland is about the length of Florida, for example, but looks much larger on a flat map because of the distortion.

It is impossible to represent 3 dimensions in 100% perfectly in 2, but maps can still be useful. It is impossible to represent the transcendent realm 100% perfectly in the limited dimension of words, but words can still be useful. This is true for the Bible and for all other religious texts. They must be understood widely, loosely -- heuristically, if you will.

The Bible contains great value, but taking it completley literally is like going into a restaurant and eating the menu rather than ordering dinner.

reply to post by gerg357


First: Your post is not in the wrong place.

I understand your disbelief of those miraculous events described in the Bible. I understand your resolution to believe only that which makes sense to you. I think it is a very good position to take.

I would like to add a thought for you to ponder though. No tricks, just points to consider.

Religious texts, or bibles, come in many flavors and varieties. The Christian bible to which you refer is just one example of collections of religious dogma and anecdotes. So don't pick exclusively on them.

Besides, remember about the Christian bible in particular, that a cabal of religious leaders - selected by an emperor - all had a little convention to determine which texts were going to be included in the 'bible' and which were "unworthy". How was the determination made? Consensus. Debate. Negotiation.

Of course any collection of writings is going to reflect the disagreements that existed between sect leaders.

The only real reason to consider the possibility of religious conspiracy is the nasty habit of celebrity leaders to 'use' dogma to increase their political 'relevance.'

And of course there's the perception by some that religion is simply another form of social control.

THe reason im a aithest is because i dont believe god has powers like what people say or jesus did the stuff they said he did.

These "PEOPLE" who said that Jesus had "POWERS" and did the stuff he did, Ya know, The ones who wrote the bible.

These people were persecuted and put to death for his sake.

The funny thing is that these people knew they were going to be persecuted and put to death

He told them so!

And they still ministered, preached, and wrote, testifying to what they had seen concerning Jesus.

They must have believed this was true.

Would you consider speaking something you thought to be truth even though you knew you would be put to death for doing so?

Not many people would.

Originally posted by gerg357
Jesus Christ walking on water. This is not possible physcially possible. Raising the dead and healing the sick. All of these things arent possible. What made him so special other then supposidly being gods son?

You've answered it in the last line, he's special because he's God's son. You're right, it's not possible with any ordinary human being.

Originally posted by gerg357
Wouldnt gravity affect his ability to walk on water?

Apparently not.

Originally posted by gerg357
I just dont think theres any way a man could make the earth as big as it is in 6 days. A man a spirit whatever.

You're right, a man couldn't make the earth as big as it is in 6 days. That would require an act of God. Not being able to think of a way isn't God's limitation. God's limitation would be Him not being able to think of a way.

Originally posted by gerg357
THe reason im a aithest is because i dont believe god has powers like what people say or jesus did the stuff they said he did.

Fair enough, and some years ago I'd agree.

Originally posted by gerg357
So god could do anything?

Sure, by definition.

Originally posted by gerg357
He could turn a stick a wood into a loaf of bread. Now think about this. What is wood composed of? And what is bread composed of. How is that possible that he could do this.

They're both carbon-based, I don't think it's as difficult as it sounds.

Originally posted by gerg357
Do you know the implications of the atoms and stuff involved especially the missing things that would be required to make this happen?

Ya, physicists have been working on it the last 50 some years. They've managed to change lead to gold by pinging out electrons, but it's not 'true' or 'natural' gold and it's very expensive from an electrical usage standpoint to do so.

Originally posted by gerg357
This is the reason why i dont believe in god or jesus. I think the bible wasnt meant to be literal or maybe its not even a real bible maybe its made up.

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. ... Just my thoughts....

Nothing wrong with the thoughts or perspective, it's important I think for all of us to express what we believe. When I'd first come to know God, I considered most of the Bible to be allegorical or figurative, but the more I've seen and experienced, the more literal it is becoming. It's a very strange process to be sure, but one that gradually removes my doubts.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by gerg357


I hate religion as much as the next guy..but let me ask you and all the other non believers, WHY DO YOU GIVE A S**T WHAT OTHERS BELIEF SYSTEMS ARE? If you do not believe in it...then would it not be best to just move on and ummmm mind your own business.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by gerg357

 

I hate religion as much as the next guy..but let me ask you and all the other non believers, WHY DO YOU GIVE A S**T WHAT OTHERS BELIEF SYSTEMS ARE? If you do not believe in it...then would it not be best to just move on and ummmm mind your own business.

Is that how you interpret the OP. As a demonstration of hatred?

What makes you think this is about 'minding business' other than your own?

The OP made a statement and expected a response.

Some of us actually see a strange harmony in the various manifestations of faith different cultures adopt. Some think it is a topic of importance, and worthy of discussion.

Apparently you don't.

Do you see the irony in your having posted?

Heres some more.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

11.The bible also states that if your son is unruly, you're supposed to take him to the center of town, inform everyone that he won't listen to you and you're supposed to stone him to death. There are Muslim families who, 'til this very day, murder their children in "honor killings." That's what god wanted, right?

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by saralee

 

Saralee, could you help me with some problems I'm having with literal interpretation of the Bible?

Leviticus 24:44 says that I may possess slaves both male and female, provided they are purchased from a neighboring nation. A friend of mine claims this only applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Why can't I own Canadians?

In Exodus 21:7 it says I can sell my daughter into slavery. What would be a fair market price today?

Lev.15: 19-24 tells us a woman having her period is unclean. How can I tell?

Lev. 21:20 tells us that we can't approach the alter of God if we have a defect of sight. I wear glasses; am I doomed?www.snopes.com...

Thanks for your help!



[edit on 27-10-2009 by whaaa]

I respect your choice and agree that your arguments are valid from a human perspective. But, as a Christian who believes in the divine inspiration of the Bible the reasons why I have rejected other worldviews like atheism, secularism, evolutionism, Catholicism, Judaism, Islamism, etc. is because, to put it simply, like yourself, I made a choice to follow a set standard.

Atheism, like secularism and evolutionism, at its core, in my honest opinion, puts Man on the pedestal for worship. In this way, his decisions are Law and enforced as such—even if such decisions might be detrimental to others e.g. murder, steal, lie, rape etc. The problem with this idea is that man is both fallible and finite.

Likewise with Catholicism, Judaism and Islamism, although they adhere to the view that one Creator exists their beliefs and practices are at times in complete contradiction to the Christian Bible (both Old and New Testaments) or in the case of the Talmud or Koran not only contradict the Bible, but even science. So the problem with these religions, in my opinion, is that they mix Biblical truth with man-made lies e.g. Christmas and Easter are of unbiblical origin, the Pope is not God on earth, the Talmud contains hateful statements against Christians and Jesus Christ, the Koran contains errors about Biblical persons or events, etc.

And so due to the shallow, humanistic, unbiblical and flawed views of these ideologies I chose a long time ago to believe in the Bible and follow it as best as I can with a clear conscience. Since to me if God exists—and I believe He does—and if Jesus Christ is the real Messiah—and I believe He is—and if the Bible is the Word of God—and I believe it is—then He can make the impossible, possible; He can foretell events thousands of years into the future; He can intervene in world affairs raising up nations and putting sinful nations down; He can miraculously protect a person from being killed or injured in a disaster; He can if He so chooses—which he did!—to send His only Son to be born as a human being with divine power, be sacrificed for the sins of mankind, be resurrected from the dead after three days and nights, and will send him a second time to govern the nations in supreme power and glory and usher in a time of peace and prosperity unparalleled in all history; in other words, what man can’t do, GOD CAN!

Are you a fan of the Matrix movie? The bible works in the same manner as the matrix movie.

Now, you can argue about if Neo and the Machines are real or not all day long. But it doesn't really matter what side of that argument you are on, you missed the entire point and real truth of the movie - and that is the understanding of society and reality it shows and stirs up.

The bible is just like it.

It also contains both sides. Good and evil. And has plenty of examples of the ways of both. However, the only way to see and know that is to have the understanding. It is sort of like a built in test on if someone actually understands or not IMO. People call them contradictions, because they are, but they are for a reason. Contradictions are clues.

I'm a big fan of the bible, but I'm not a Christian. I'll quote Buddha here:

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

Well, I find that what Jesus and much of the bible says agrees with reason and is conducive tot he good and benefit of one and all, so I accept it and try to live up to it.

But, I'm not a Christian, and I'll quote Gandhi here:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Christians don't follow Jesus, they follow Paul.

Originally posted by saralee
Every word is exactly what happened and what will happen. What it says should be taken in all aspects as the truth and no words should be altered.
We do have the ability Jesus had but we are all to stupid to apply it. We can move mountains and are thoughts do control actions.
What do you think God can make a human and then he limits his son from walking on water or healing?

What im saying is jesus christ supposidly did all this stuff. Walked on water cured the sick and raised the dead. Yet noone to date has been able to successfully do it. So im calling what jesus did is trickery and not possible. Simply because he was a living person and a living person would have natural laws applied to them.

meaning if they get cut they bleed if they get punished they feel pain.

With that being said. How did jesus do all this stuff he was claimed to do if he was just a man like you and me?

Im using science to explain that its impossible for a human to raise the dead and do all that stuff.

Like turning water into wine. Logically and scientifically its impossible. No matter how big of a imagination you have. You cant break the laws of life. IF jesus existed he might have done some kinda trickery that was perceived as being real. So when jesus did this trick did he just make the water dissappear and be placed with wine did he change the molecules and how? How can this be done if a molecule or element isnt in the jar in this case flavor or whatever thats in wine how can it just be there logically??