Why is there so much secrecy with free-masonry?

I just watched the first disc of a documentary on free-masonry. I learned a lot about free-masonry. It doesn't sound like a bad thing really. They have masonic rituals- like the one after Hiram Abiff (en.wikipedia.org...). Free-masons try to achieve a higher order. What I find interesting is that free-masons aren't told what to think about their own organization. So if they're not told about their own organization how do they know what they're doing the bidding of others?

They're also the descendants of the knights of templar- a group- that has done some bad things (www.masonicinfo.com...). So is the skull and bones.

On its face value the free-masonry society doesn't seem that bad. But it's so closed. Perhaps if the free-masons themselves would reveal the members of historical figures who were involved in historical events that there would be less speculation about free-masonry? Free-masonry sounds really attractive- and any attractive organization is bound to have roots that are somewhat evil. Free-masons were actively involved in the American revolution- most founding fathers were free-masons and quite a few of our founding fathers were free-masons (bessel.org...). I have yet to investigate the conspiracy theories about the French revolution but based on what I know about the French-revolution ideals the free-masons were probably involved.

So if the free-mason society would be more open about the events that it was involved in throughout history I would have no problem about it. I do not doubt that it had enormous influence and that it helped people become better people. However, the philosophy of the organization... would incline one to think that free-masons have intervened in events throughout history that match the free-masonry ideology.

I think that there needs to be truth to these matters. The free-masons needs to be more open about their history. They don't have to tell about their secret oaths. They just have to talk about their past.

As a whole- I don't think the free-masons are evil. Their rituals aren't secret- they're just misunderstood. I think the problem is with the free-masons always denying that their organization had anything to do with any event in history and speculators always saying they're the cause of all of our problems- when in reality the free-masons had some very good ideas.

So I wanted to ask why there is so much secrecy with free-masonry with regards to this. I would love to know why.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Frankidealist35]

Well if the Freemasons are devoted to spiritual enlightenment they probably have a limited number of exercises that they use over and over again. Same thing with Scientology, when you process thousands of people you need to keep the exercises secret otherwise the effect is spoiled.

My god how many times can the same bull be posted.

Hear goes Freemasonry is an order which has plays and acts in it, their is no governing body thats the beauty everyone can be different and have different ideas and beliefs.

You state they should be more open how can you be more open when you can find all their is to know on-line and in books.

Their is no secret, nobody is trying to achieve a higher order it's a night out the house.

Why do people post so much nonsense???

As for historical figures being members, why does it matter should every political figure that's been a member of the Scouts, Buffalo's etc disclose what they are a member of, what people do in their private time is their business an no-one else's. It may be partly that they see ignorrant people saying things like Masonry is evil, masonry is Un-Christian that they can't be bothered explaining themselves to people like i am here and now.

Hope i have explained as best i can and showed your post to be Bull.

Sick and tired of stupid posts going over the same crap!

[edit on 16-10-2009 by adama1]

Secrecy is or at least was part of the allure of masonry. Many people join secret societies, like the Freemasons, at least partly because they want to find out what the secrets are. Without secrecy, secret societies like the freemasons lose much of their allure.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Secrecy is or at least was part of the allure of masonry. Many people join secret societies, like the Freemasons, at least partly because they want to find out what the secrets are. Without secrecy, secret societies like the freemasons lose much of their allure.

What secrets are their? their is a post showing every degree/ ritual etc. In my local newspaper it tells what meeting is taking place the contact details for the lodge, secretary, treasurer etc.

True secret societies are things the public don't know about, like who their members are, where their meetings take place their are no secrets in Freemasonry!

You gotta be careful there are freemasons in this forum right now

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Why is there so much secrecy with free-masonry?

Cast not pearls before swine, Frank.

that's why.

and trust me.. .in my own research and self-development using Gnostic and Kabbalistic knowledge, compassionately sharing it with people even on a board such as this is NOT an easy task.
What you get is instant knee-jerk spiteful rejection of the themes and concepts I portray... and I'm not even a mason!

It's just too alien to the common thought processes the general public hold.... of existence and religion and our future as a species.

It's secret because .... people can't handle the truth.


-

While I agree with most of the answers posted here, I also think that the Freemasons have some degree of fear of persecution given their history as allegedly stemming from the Knights Templar.

There have been historical rifts between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry, as well as rifts between the Freemasons and various dictatorships.

I think the best answer is that the Freemasons have esoteric knowledge, and to a certain extent, a network of generally influential fraternity brothers. To any petty dictator, they would view the Masons as a threat politically, and as having the ability to potentially undermine a dictator's power structure.

Hence, the need for secrecy in difficult times.

Psychology 101 may answer that:

Sharing secrets between friends tight the bond between them.

We value things that are hard to us to obtain.

We are gregarious animals, therefore we like to belong to a group.

We are curious.

We don't have all the answers.

Some fear the unknown.

Some like to develop and know themselves better.

Some people like to make the world better.

And much more...

[edit on 16-10-2009 by infobrazil]

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Secrecy is or at least was part of the allure of masonry. Many people join secret societies, like the Freemasons, at least partly because they want to find out what the secrets are. Without secrecy, secret societies like the freemasons lose much of their allure.

I'll actually agree with that. Masonry benefits far more than it suffers from the notion that we are a secret organization. It adds..... mystic, ya know?

Once inside you figure out there is no secret, and many members never step foot in a lodge again. In fact, most don't.. they either joined for the wrong reasons, never "got it" or were put off by the mundaneness of masonry.

The way the Masonic government(s) are formed, imo, deep corruption is not impossible, but highly improbable..

But either way, the "secrecy" keeps out the cowardly zealous fools.. Masonry is far better off without em, and if it means they think we rape virgins, eat babies and rule the world.. so be it.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I thought about that- that the secrecy could just be to keep the ignorant masses from joining the group and it being prestigious. I however want to know more about Masonic history. I understand that it's more of a philosophical movement now.

Anyone who has studied history would probably know about the size of the Masonic movement in the past. What troubles me is the fact that many Masons deny their involvements in historical events like the French revolution or the American revolution. I think it would be great if they came together and decided to reveal to us what really happened and what hasn't happened.

I think that so much of the conspiracies about masonry are around that. So I would like to know their goals and reasons for doing various things- it doesn't help to just deny things all the time.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

I think that so much of the conspiracies about masonry are around that. So I would like to know their goals and reasons for doing various things- it doesn't help to just deny things all the time.

If you went up to the average person on the street and said :"We are seeking to bring humanity closer to equivalence of form with the Creator, no matter what it takes"
... they would think you are insane and not trust your judgment.

hence do it in secrecy, until there is no threatening resistance to success.

-

Personally I have researched some of the Masonic rituals, beliefs, history etc. from both sides pro and con (e.g. Barton The Question of Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers, Harwood The Freemasons, Morey The Truth About Masons etc.). And I believe that it has changed dramatically over the past two centuries, especially the American branch. To answer your question though, as I understand it, the overiding reason for secrecy in most groups, whether a minor cult or a prestigious institution, is that it offers both a stabilizing influence upon its members and acts as an attraction for new recruits i.e. they must know something "important." And it is undeniable IMO that within Masonry the rituals and symbols entail esoteric, occult and even pagan associations that play a crucial role in programming the target, be it a new initiate or a "cowan"--and this occurs on a concscious or subconscious level, whether they are aware of the processes at work or not. And it is these "processes" IMO that require such "virtue" of secrecy of the highest order. As a comparison look at the millions of dollars invested in marketing, etc. by tobacco companies, the Hollywood industry, major political parties, etc. over past decades and the subliminal programming or persuasion and other exploitive techniques that goes on to forward specific agendas in society of which most are ignorant of.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
So if they're not told about their own organization how do they know what they're doing the bidding of others?

Why would anyone want to join an organization which told them what to think? I'd much rather join an organization which encourages people to think for themselves. Freemasonry is one such organization.

They're also the descendants of the knights of templar- a group- that has done some bad things

Bad things such as...?

Perhaps if the free-masons themselves would reveal the members of historical figures who were involved in historical events that there would be less speculation about free-masonry?

Knock yourself out.

Free-masonry sounds really attractive- and any attractive organization is bound to have roots that are somewhat evil.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?

Free-masons were actively involved in the American revolution- most founding fathers were free-masons and quite a few of our founding fathers were free-masons. I have yet to investigate the conspiracy theories about the French revolution but based on what I know about the French-revolution ideals the free-masons were probably involved.

Masonic ideals are strongly against tyranny, and strongly for separation of church and state.

I do not doubt that it had enormous influence and that it helped people become better people. However, the philosophy of the organization... would incline one to think that free-masons have intervened in events throughout history that match the free-masonry ideology.

You're welcome.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
You gotta be careful there are freemasons in this forum right now

Yes. There are. But why is that a reason to be careful? Because we might actually answer some of the questions he's asking?

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
While I agree with most of the answers posted here, I also think that the Freemasons have some degree of fear of persecution given their history as allegedly stemming from the Knights Templar.

There have been historical rifts between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry, as well as rifts between the Freemasons and various dictatorships.

I think the best answer is that the Freemasons have esoteric knowledge, and to a certain extent, a network of generally influential fraternity brothers. To any petty dictator, they would view the Masons as a threat politically, and as having the ability to potentially undermine a dictator's power structure.

Hence, the need for secrecy in difficult times.

You are right on all counts. Except for perhaps the bit about "generally influential fraternity brothers." I'd say our membership spans a fairly wide spectrum, and the number of truly influential members is not disproportionately high when compared to other groups with similar demographics.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Anyone who has studied history would probably know about the size of the Masonic movement in the past. What troubles me is the fact that many Masons deny their involvements in historical events like the French revolution or the American revolution. I think it would be great if they came together and decided to reveal to us what really happened and what hasn't happened.

I don't think any Masons deny that the founders of America, and a number of significant players in the American Revolution were Masons. We're quite proud of that fact. (and, incidentally, the Texas revolution from Mexico...)

I'm personally not well versed in the history of the French Revolution, so I really can't tell you anything one way or the other. I do know that authors like Nesta Webster and Edith Starr Miller (aka Lady Queensborough) wrote a lot of crap lying about Masons, the Illuminati, and other groups which was simply fiction, and more modern conspiracy theorists cite their books (World Revolution and Occult Theocracy, respectively) without acknowledging the errors they perpetrated. (Miller was one of the authors who's responsible for aspects of the Taxil hoax still being around in CT circles...)

[edit on 10/16/2009 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by prevenge
If you went up to the average person on the street and said :"We are seeking to bring humanity closer to equivalence of form with the Creator, no matter what it takes"
... they would think you are insane and not trust your judgment.

hence do it in secrecy, until there is no threatening resistance to success.

-

Mkay. Well, that's about the only reason I would trust you!

As for me, I can't handle the lies (just in general, nothing to do with Masonry).

From your other post, casting pearls before swine is a lousy analogy. It never quite sat right with me. The swine would just pass them and they might even end up shiny and polished. The simian with dominion over the earth would toss them back at you, damaging them and possibly costing you an eye or two or three.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
As for me, I can't handle the lies (just in general, nothing to do with Masonry).

Just curious, but what lies?

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
As for me, I can't handle the lies (just in general, nothing to do with Masonry).

Just curious, but what lies?

Hmmm. Had to think to preserve parsimony.

The ones I tell myself every nanosecond without knowing it. More generally, they're the "stuff" of this world and the reason.