The Flights of 11 September, 2001

This thread is ONLY to examine the flights....American Airlines 11 and 77, and United Airlines 93 and 175.

(we really ONLY have substantial data from the SSFDRs of AAL 77 and UAL 93 to examine, but let's start from the concept of IF all four flights existed at all...)

We should start FROM the beginning....and focus only on these flights and their origination.

AND the possibility, whether true or 'urban legend', about the facts of the existence of these flights.

WITHOUT belaboring the issue, because there is ample evidence already to support this contention I am about to make:

The historical facts of these specific flight numbers exist.

I don't intent to make this easy, but here is a source to begin YOUR own personal search: www.bts.gov...

NOW....try to claim that ALL of the data compiled on that site is somehow (faked)!

We would really (and by 'We' I refer to ALL of the ATS observers) would like to know how this data is "faked"...because, 'IF' it is "faked", then that is the only explanation for many of the allegations that have been made regarding the flights that are known as the hijacked flights of 11 September, 2001.

ALSO, if it is "faked" then the amount of 'back data' that must have been inserted into the records is substantial.

This is the challenge set forth to those who believe in the "Major Conspiracy" concept for 9/11.

Once the existance of these flights is established, as an historical fact, as regularly scheduled BEFORE 9/11, then the entire mythos of any of the "9/11 Myths" and the basis for their substantiation in real factual data must be called into question.


[edit on 4 October 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
The historical facts of these specific flight numbers exist.

I don't intent to make this easy, but here is a source to begin YOUR own personal search: www.bts.gov...

Send me a message when you make it easy enough to understand what the hell you're talking about.

Why am I beginning a personal search for you?

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weed,

I think I must be missing something here. Do a lot of 9-11 Truth Movement people believe that these flights did not exist? I thought they thought they did exist and that the government had a stake in the outcome.

WTC
Because no transponders were on and no clear images (released) show the airline colors then we are assuming, because the media told us so, that the planes they said hit the WTC hit the WTC.

Many pilots & engineers who fly and work on those planes say NOPE! NO WAY! NOT HAPPENING! Either showing that the plane profile is off for the type or you just can't do that easily with that kind of plane especially with that type of pilot. It is like "show me the WMD" in Iraq. We know who sold them the stuff (we were one of the sellers). Why confess to a wrong and get everyone in trouble when you believe what you are told. It happened the way the media told you it happened.


That appears to mean that the passengers and crew of those planes rest in a deep grave somewhere (why keep them around?).

I believe the flights existed and took off as we were told, but what happened to them on that day after they took off is anyone's guess!

reply to post by Mark_Amy


Thank you, Mark_Amy.

Could you elaborate a bit???

The aircrafts were never identified from the crash sites and they were never investigated.
911 Truthers who are in search of answers have never found any tangible proof that the four planes in questions were the alleged planes that crashed that day.

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

pilotsfor911truth.org...

I would like to add we have proof that flight 93 was still airborne miles away PASS the alleged crash site in Shanskville PA.

The FBI was very sloppy in covering up this treasonable act.

United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Do not let some of these disinformationist in some of the 911 threads fool you.

911 was an inside job, except it.

Weed, you should do some homework and study the NTSB before starting
a thread about the flights you are debating.

Have you figured out which cell address in the CSV file corresponds
to the "terrorist" setting the PA on his way to the Pentagon?

Do you have any idea why the NTSB which is trained to handle such
data, and has decades of experience would make such a basic error?

Care to explain why they wont comment when real pilots contacted
them and the FBI about the error?

Any guess as to why the PA matched on the runway for local pressure,
but some how 'mixed itself up" half-way through the flight and produced
a different value even though Hani set the value?

reply to post by turbofan


I thank you for your contribution.

However, this thread is for one purpose only. It is to ascertain that the four flights actually existed, which is a point of contention for some.

This is step-by-step process. The exact details of each flight are not the subject here.

Once we realize that all four flights actually existed, THEN it will make mores sense to examine them one at a time.....

Again, thank you for your post.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
(we really ONLY have substantial data from the SSFDRs of AAL 77 and UAL 93 to examine, but let's start from the concept of IF all four flights existed at all...)

Can you supply the proof that those alleged FDRs were real and belonged to the alleged flights?

There are a few strange anomalies with the BTS data on the flights, or there were (were lalter changed) - I wish I could find that research, but some of the flights were NOT listed as having taken off that day believe it or not. Somewhere I MIGHT be able to get some screenshots on it for you all.

On a cursory search I found this

911review.org...

portland.indymedia.org...

[edit on 4-10-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Since I wasn't on any one of those four flights, how the hell am I supposed to know if they existed or not?

Ohhh an aviation based thread from WW , funny you should mention flights as I went to ....

www.bts.gov...


The other day as far as I can make out you cannot trace any 9/11 flights anymore, however the guy beneath me has a very interesting blog running and some FOIA evidence (apparently) showing that three of the four planes from that day, had not flown for 9 months, I have not checked this all out yet, it is just a pointer that`s all .


existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com...

Also, check this out, what is happening here do you think?........

whatsallthisthen.wordpress.com...

/cheers

[edit on 4-10-2009 by Seventh]

[edit on 4-10-2009 by Seventh]

[edit on 4-10-2009 by Seventh]

WW, Does the BTS data base show all military flights taking off that day? For example; the aircraft that were participating in the war games. Or is the BTS data consist of commercial flights only? Also, using the BTS site, is it possible to make a list of all flights taking off at the same time?Or say within the hour, for each of the four flights?

reply to post by Seventh

The other day as far as I can make out you cannot trace any 9/11 flights anymore, however the guy beneath me has a very interesting blog running and some FOIA evidence (apparently) showing that three of the four planes from that day, had not flown for 9 months, I have not checked this all out yet, it is just a pointer that`s all

This first popped up on ATS months ago. And more than one of us "debunkers" got into the database and tracked those planes for a week or two prior to 9/11. The 9 months statement is completely false.

If I can dig back far enough into my post history, I will repost it.

reply to post by Seventh


I went to the blog and read the evidence. Very convincing. So, Weed, a "flight" is a flight that is made the same every day, week, month with the same plane and crew, yes? If that is the case then the blog shows that those "flights" were not acting according to their schedule or, at least, coincidentally all of them were reinstated for those flights on 9-11.

Can you look at the blog and tell me what you make of it?

reply to post by A Fortiori


No, the flights are not made with the same aircraft day after day, it varies in accordance with airline schedules and needs. With the major airlines, it is a rare thing that the same airliner will make the same flight day after day.

reply to post by A Fortiori


No, the flights are not made with the same aircraft day after day, it varies in accordance with airline schedules and needs. With the major airlines, it is a rare thing that the same airliner will make the same flight day after day.

reply to post by Seventh


That AA Plane or Drone or whatever it is is photoshopped.

Not to say something like that wasn't made but that picture isn't real.

You can tell right off in a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

The other day as far as I can make out you cannot trace any 9/11 flights anymore, however the guy beneath me has a very interesting blog running and some FOIA evidence (apparently) showing that three of the four planes from that day, had not flown for 9 months, I have not checked this all out yet, it is just a pointer that`s all

This first popped up on ATS months ago. And more than one of us "debunkers" got into the database and tracked those planes for a week or two prior to 9/11. The 9 months statement is completely false.

If I can dig back far enough into my post history, I will repost it.

Ah okay bud thanks, but like I said when I posted I have not had the time to research it, a google search with the relative FOIA details is a start, the part about the IP was interesting, but iirc he did not have proof of how the IP address appeared in the 1st place.

/cheers and thanks for the thread

S & F from me for the soul purpose of - You are one of the very view of the opposition that puts forward your side of the story, instead of the cookie cutter stereotypes whom just wait on the sidelines, waiting to pounce with claws extracted, yet never, not once, put a thread forward depicting their own thoughts and ideas etcetera.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by Seventh]