Anti-Islam T-shirts Rile Fla. School

Originally posted by sos37
I've asked my dad the same question several times - why even read the Old Testament if the rules have changed. Why even have it there? He told me in order to answer that question you have to read the New Testament.

His answer always baffled me - until I actually read the New Testament.

... and saw what Jesus said? I'll quote it again as you seem to have completely ignored the obvious:

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)

reply to post by Goathief


You quote Matthew 5:17-18 but why did you stop when Matthew 5:19-48 clearly explains the "law" Jesus is talking about. Namely the laws given to Moses, the commandments, as He goes on to remark about various ones.

reply to post by monkcaw


No, he is not talking exclusively about the 10 commandments - I'll quote the next passage:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments

One of these least? He is clearly not referring to the commandments - there's a very big difference and as a Christian I'd have thought you'd know better. Also we are speaking of Jesus strictly upholding laws given to Moses?

Originally posted by monkcaw
Moses may very well have authored Deuteronomy and perhaps other books of the Old Testament.

*EDIT*
Just thought I'd add some more food for thought while you're mulling over that one...

"not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

Emphasis on how not a single law (however small) should be disregarded from the OT.


[edit on 27-8-2009 by Goathief]

reply to post by Goathief


First of all - what are you talking about? The passage you quoted from me was my response to another poster who asked the question "Why even refer to the Old Testament anymore?" to which my response was that we need to read the Old Testament to understand the context of the New Testament.

How is that 'ignoring the obvious'??? Are you referring to a completely different response about how the laws have changed? If so, then it's true that Jesus did not come to change the old laws, but to fulfill them. But that does not mean that things haven't changed. I made a reference by which there was one major change - repentance. We can repent of our sins through Jesus anytime through prayer instead of relying on a priest and a single day of the year at a temple.

Also, consider this:

Galatians 5:14 - "The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "

John 13:34 - "Jesus also said 'a new command I give you: love one another. As I have loved you, so must you love one another'"

reply to post by sos37


All you have done is regurgitate what you've been told to think rather than analysing what is actually written for yourself. Cognitive dissonance in full effect? I understand it's hard for you because you are a Christian and thus had the above (incorrect) argument drilled into you and much easier for me because I look upon it with impartiality - you asked where Jesus condoned/advocated some quite despicable behaviour and I showed you, clearly.

While you can imagine the NT is all about fluffy love and all that hippy stuff, remember God does not change (Malachi 3:6) - and God does not always view violence and killing as an evil thing. God can punish people without sin, ergo people can punish people without sin also (righteousness). Is the execution of a child killing rapist the same thing as murder? Is the punishment of a slave for not carrying out his duty the same as beating someone to take their money? Do you not punish yourself (mentally) if you stray from the word of God/Jesus while still loving yourself? What makes your neighbour exempt from this? You can still love a child while punishing them for doing wrong.

Religion is like a game of Pong. Those who remember have an advantage.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by princeofpeace
I ask you this: "why should you?"

I take people at their word when they describe their motivations and experiences.

I do, too! In a recent thread that has since been removed, you called for all Arabs residing in Gaza strip to be executed by the same method as used on Rachel Corrie, namely running a bulldozer over them. So I take you at your word and I interpret it as your deep-deated hatred of Arabs and Islam.

I called for bringing an end to the war that the Arabs declared and sustain.

I don't hate anyone.

but forgive me I haven't been indoctrinated.

You were not? So you were born in that condition?

Yes, I was. I know its silly to think that continuous cease-fires with people who will always want to annihilate you is not a good idea.

The Torah (the Old Testament Ritual Law found in the 5 books that the Jews say Moses wrote) was only ever meant for the Jewish people.

Part of its purpose was to instill in them such a distinctive and seperate culture from all others peoples so that they would have that distinctive identity to sustain them for the thousands of years they have been around.

Those laws were never meant to be expanded onto the rest of the world. It was a burden on the Jews as part of God's covenant with them.

After Jesus' came and gone, and the early apostles started having success converting Non-Jews, the conflict arose... how much of the Torah law applied to these new believers? The convert Pharisees said new believers must follow the law of Moses, but others disagree.

So at the Council of Jerusalem, it was decreed that the Law of Moses was only ever meant for the Jewish people , it was never intended for Non-Jews and thus, Non-Jewish Christians are not under any obligation to follow it.

Acts 15:1 Now some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” When Paul and Barnabas had a major argument and debate with them, the church appointed Paul and Barnabas and some others from among them to go up to meet with the apostles and elders in Jerusalem about this point of disagreement. So they were sent on their way by the church, and as they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, they were relating at length the conversion of the Gentiles and bringing great joy to all the brothers. When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all the things God had done with them. But some from the religious party of the Pharisees who had believed stood up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise the Gentiles and to order them to observe the law of Moses.”

Both the apostles and the elders met together to deliberate about this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that some time ago God chose me to preach to the Gentiles so they would hear the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, has testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between them and us, cleansing their hearts by faith. So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they are.”

The whole group kept quiet and listened to Barnabas and Paul while they explained all the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. After they stopped speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written,

‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David;
I will rebuild its ruins and restore it,
so that the rest of humanity may seek the Lord,
namely, all the Gentiles I have called to be my own,’ says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.

“Therefore I conclude that we should not cause extra difficulty for those among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we should write them a letter telling them to abstain from things defiled by idols and from sexual immorality and from what has been strangled and from blood. For Moses has had those who proclaim him in every town from ancient times, because he is read aloud in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to send men chosen from among them, Judas called Barsabbas and Silas, leaders among the brothers, to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent this letter with them

From the apostles and elders, your brothers, to the Gentile brothers and sisters in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia, greetings! Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said, we have unanimously decided to choose men to send to you along with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul, who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas who will tell you these things themselves in person. For it seemed best to the Holy Spirit and to us not to place any greater burden on you than these necessary rules that you abstain from meat that has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what has been strangled and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from doing these things, you will do well. Farewell.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Born Again Christians..

Using kids to bring a message of hate is pretty low.. really not much else to say about that..

haha rp

coincidentally i dated one from north fla too..

give you 2 guesses how that one ended, but you will only need one

-ill just tell you, after i made "baahh"'ing sheep noises over the phone to her one day for voting for bush 2 and mccain that pretty much ended right there HAHAHA

Interesting... Once more a subject about Islam turns into a Christianity bash fest.

I wonder how that always happens. People are so scared to even criticize Islam, that they go tooth and nail at Christianity.

Almost as if it's a conditioned response...

reply to post by Ha`la`tha


The topic is actually about C bashing I

If it was I bashing C with that T-shirt in the first place I am guessing it would be the other way around

reply to post by ModernAcademia


And

reply to post by Rook1545


The primacy of Old Biblical Law in Christianity is a very complex question to answer because of modern day Christianity's fractured nature.

However, being a Roman Catholic myself, I can only present the position of my church (THE church ) which essentially teaches that the laws of Moses barring the Ten Commandments were applicable only for those of that time and since the arrival of Christ with a new message, a new paradigm was established with the old Testament as a reference.

There is even a whole article on wikipedia outlining the various denominations view on the Old Testament : en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
Interesting... Once more a subject about Islam turns into a Christianity bash fest.

I wonder how that always happens. People are so scared to even criticize Islam, that they go tooth and nail at Christianity.

Almost as if it's a conditioned response...

Good point. This is something I have observed too.

You know why this happens, don't you? It's because people are so ignorant of Islam that the only way they could participate in a discussion about it, and be able to disagree with the people making noise about Islam, is to change the subject.

They so want to disagree with the Islam critic yet they can't argue the merits of what they're saying, so they have to revert to Christian-bashing in order to say SOMETHING against the Islam critic.

Originally posted by nine0099thousand
I was raised a christian, and still follow Jesus... but

there is only one way to God, only one way to salvation, and that is through the blood of Jesus. Through the repenting of your sins and being born again

that line makes me sick to my stomach everytime I hear it. Clueless morons.

I'm not sure how you can be a christian and disagree with this statement. Jesus himself makes it perfectly clear. Here is what Jesus said, in his own words in John 14:6,

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jesus doesn't leave you with the opportunity for a middle ground. If you claim that Jesus was just a moral teacher then you have to deal with the fact that he claimed to be God's only Son and in fact equal with God. Moreover He claimed that the only way to reach the Father was through Him.

There are many other scriptures that support this. If Jesus is of God, then you are going to have to choose. You can choose the broad way, that many follow, that leads to destruction or the narrow way that leads to eternal life. Jesus himself warned that his teachings would divide many and it is precisely because Jesus, through his death on the cross, and his resurrection is the only way you can get right with God.