We have a 'right to starlight,' astronomers say

I live in a remote place in France. And still there, even if I see much more stars than in the nearest city (which is no more than 300 000 inhabitants), it's still terribely far from what could be seen without lights.
Ok, people may feel safer with lit streets. But why keeping the ads and all this stuff on all night long ? A group of young people used to wonder around turning them off in my country, but no news from them for like one year. Gotta do a little research about it.
Anyway, I believe than turning off the adds, the discotheques and old monuments light beams who aim directly for the sky etc, this could help a lot. Now, for the other lights, making them less powerful and pointing them at the ground would not be a bad idea. I also used to think about the possibility of making them turning on when someone comes bye and turning of if there's no one in the street. It would be quite expansive, ok, but still, the money which could be saved from turning the lights off would quickly equals the invested sum.

Oh, and. See what, to me, every single person should be able to see at least once in their life, if not every night :




(Sadly, I failed at getting the right code to add the second video, here's the link : Video on youtube

That's simply impossible for big cities where security should come in first place. Try dimming down the light in New York, Tokyo, Londom, São Paulo, Paris or any other big city and see what happens. Instant increase in crime occurrences.

The extent of light pollution is being overlooked imo. Just take a look at this satellite image of the world at night. I'm in the UK and there is hardly any dark areas left.

reply to post by refuse_orders


Thanks for posting this, I couldn't agree more with the IAU. Not only will it help preserve the natural wonder of the night sky, but additionally it will be more economical and eco-friendly. It is a win-win situation....

I love my telescope paperweight...nice lens...good body...holds the floor down like no other

Ok folks let's look at a couple things for those who oppose this idea

Streetlights and highway lights ARE important as the pro-star people admitted. If we move to directional lights or LED's then hey fine...we start to please everyone and no more crime than there is now. My issue is the ads. Do we need 7 lights for one billboard? Do we need blinking lights and massive displays? Tell me how those stop crime in an already lit area. Tell me also how a girl can get raped in your lit areas. Stuff happens.

Now onto the other fair suggestion that we gazers and astronomers move to remote locations. Where? I live in Chicago. Gonna be a hell of a drive to get to a place where there are few or no lights.

And another thing...are we not always concerned about the amount of electricity we use? Why does the Casino have to have that mught lighting? Why do you need to have your 1m candle bulb?

needless IMO

-Kyo

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by mrwupy
I live in the city and when I find myself in the country at night, I cannot believe the difference in the sky. Light pollution is a real problem.

Precisely. Unless you go to the country and see how the sky looks without those lights, it can be easy to forget how it is supposed to look.

The night sky is the most wondrous thing on our planet. We should all look up more often.

Your post reminds me that I cannot remember the last time I felt a warm summer breeze gently blowing over my face as I lay on the grass and looked into the dark sky looking at the stars...

It seems as if that is impossible these days. I miss it.

It's like remembering an old pet, or thinking about how we will never really see an extinct creature. A sort of melancholy...

I've gotta get out of this urban prison...

Originally posted by KyoZero
My issue is the ads. Do we need 7 lights for one billboard? Do we need blinking lights and massive displays?

It is beautiful isn't it.

I love the fact that I live in a well-lit society.

I don't care that I can't see all the stars - and I don't care that you guys can't either. Too bad; you don't have a right to it and it's not enumerated in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. (go check...)

I have daughters and grandchildren and the more lighting that is available to them the safer they will be. I'm a senior and feel much safer in well-light areas. Everyone is safer when areas are well-lit.

There is also a substantial homeless population in north America that benefits from having so much lighting.

*Also; 'Eco-friendly' is just another term used to further the reduction of our standards of living.

reply to post by KyoZero


The move towards LED street lighting is going to please the star gazers yes but the stimulus money is going to help to achieve this because a lot of cities and states will use some of their money to purchase retrofits like the Solstice LED that I linked to in my previous post. These are going to become more common because they are up to 80% more energy efficient and last for like 80,000 hours of operation so they save on maintenance cost. The fact that they also help the dark skies initiative is just a side bonus. They also are designing and selling LEDs for use to light up highway signage and billboards and have similar effects of less scattered light.

Where this has no effect of course is where they are shooting huge beams of light up directly into the sky for these light fountain effects. These produce a lot of light pollution and provide no real benefit to anyone and are costly in the electric energy they use as well.

I think over the next decade you will see far less light pollution and it will not require any law because the move to LED will take care of 75% of it by itself. These other sources like search lights for attention draws perhaps could be legislated and controlled by local ordinances. No federal or state laws would be required. Perhaps just tell promoters or designers to shut them down by say 12 midnight. I have seen some run until the clubs close at 2 and that is just excessive I think.

Originally posted by wayouttheredude

Where this has no effect of course is where they are shooting huge beams of light up directly into the sky for these light fountain effects. These produce a lot of light pollution and provide no real benefit to anyone and are costly in the electric energy they use as well.

Agreed.

Art is wasteful and for the bourgeoisie - Especially displays such as light fountains.

The artist contributes nothing to the society or body politik and whilst they should not be criminalized; the artist's time and materials should be strictly regulated and rationed by the state so as to reduce further needless wastage.

I too like to look at the night sky. I have some great photos from when my Ex was curator for an observatory (12" Telescope)

However I am getting G%$ D%$# tired of hearing the words "It is my RIGHT....." when someone is trying to rip off my money or do something I dislike. How come "your rights..." always translates in MY loss of freedom and/or money?




Your rights end at the border of MY property line!

reply to post by Exuberant1


I think you missed the rest of my post, or ignored it.

These other sources like search lights for attention draws perhaps could be legislated and controlled by local ordinances. No federal or state laws would be required. Perhaps just tell promoters or designers to shut them down by say 12 midnight. I have seen some run until the clubs close at 2 and that is just excessive I think.

This does not sound very oppressive to me. It sounds more like common courtesy made into an ordinance because you can not count on people to be courteous.

So far i like the idea of less powerful lights, possibly in conjunction with less reflective, organic surroundings. (ik ik, day dreaming there.)

Me and some friends must drive 2.5 hours outside of Dallas, TX every time i wish to simply see the star clusters, to the ranch. Perhaps Wilhelm Reich if still alive with his orgone machine blast away pollution in his own backyard before having a sheriff smash it...

Just sucks you know, i don't always feel like driving out to see some f-ing stars and spiral milky way arms when i'm down. But alas, blue star here, a few stars there.... red colored light pollution 24/7.

imagine complaining about not being able to see stars if we ever colonize a planet that has way too many clouds, or where we lived in structures where video or glass domes was the only visual portal into space...

[edit on 23-8-2009 by thaknobodi]

I use to live in Tokyo, and I don't recall ever seing a star. I now live in a place where you can see stars even in the day. I can't imagine living without the sight of them now.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by iHateMasses]

The beaches in my state are so well lit now from all the hotels, resturants and other businesses, that you have trouble seeing stars there. The sunsets are still glorious, of course, but a walk on the beach at night is not what it used to be.

edit to show: I actually know how to spell restaurant. lol.

[edit on 8/23/0909 by ladyinwaiting]

Thanks for posting.

I actually think this is way more important than it is given credit for. I have always since I was a child loved star gazing, just enjoying the view of the night sky. The sickly orangey-purple hue that the thousands of streetlights give the sky is depressing. It's amazing to see the nightsky in it's full glory, when camping for example. I remember the first time I saw the milky way, in 20 years I had never seen it, it was majestic.

Humans have been in awe of the sky for millenia, and have based whole religions and cultures around (it's my opinion that it's possible that all major religions began as allegorical folklore for a culture's wonder and practical use of what they saw in the sky - but that's another thread). Think of all the works of art, literature and performance that are inspired by the night sky. To lose this connection would be a grave injustice and detrimental to humanity I think. Not to sound to new age-y about it all, but it's how I feel.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by VelvetSplash]

reply to post by VelvetSplash


Im with you dude, I think its very important to see the night sky. Its where we come from after all.

Won't it be so odd when people are taking their children on vacation "to see the stars", somewhere in Wyoming or "big sky country". I know people now who take their kids on vacations to "see snow".

This is a little off topic, but with the universe expanding, the stars are getting away from us anyway. At some point in time, people will look up and see stars few and far between.

I have a telescope, too, and have difficulty seeing the stars from my home because of very tall trees. Always something. lol.

I love that Nat Geo article. I read a similar one years ago.


Light pollution messes with the internal tickings of so many species, including our own. If you're not using a light at night, turn it off. Most cities almost compete to be the brightest and the baddest, but it causes more harm than good unfortunately.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I could not agree more.

We don't understand the effect we are having on the natural order of things, especially with things like light pollution. This first and foremost should be the issue.

I love the stars too and so does my grand children...ages 5, 7, and 10. I have 2 telescopes and it is hard to see anything except the moon here in my town, because of the lights... I agree that we need light to help protect our families, but for those of us who do care about looking into the Universe, it is really discouraging trying to see anything with all the lights .For those of you who say go into the country if you want to see the stars....that is not always an easy thing to do. Packing up the telescopes, and piling the grand kids in the car to drive 10 miles to my grandparents old corn field is not that easy. It tires me out, but the kids love it and if it were not for them I would NOT do it!! I think it is good that they are learning about the stars and it also impresses their teachers too! And by the way, some my family feels the same way some of you do, they couldn't care less about the night sky. I am the only one in the family that ever wanted a telescope!!!!