ASTRALPEDIA [ a guide the the astral, and how to get there ]

Originally posted by phi1618
Yes, many people have strange psychonaut experiences during trips, but doing it willfully and needing a drug to induce it are two sides of the same coin

One also has positive aftereffects while the other has negative

i mean just look at Syd Berret.

And so the Peruvian Shamans that use ayahuasca just experience negative aftereffects? I think cultural factors tend to play into opinions on that subject. I'd rather do it without but do not look down on those that employ substances in a disciplined manner. Some do get reckless however. I just don't try to make myself high on purist claptrap which keeps the ego in the way.

Just my 0.02 on the matter. No hard feelings.

[edit on 8/9/2009 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by guavas


Great question!
The itches ar4e something i thought i only experienced, although it isnt localize to my nostril. I get it in random spots all over my body and i know exactly what your talking about. They are impossible to ignore!

heres how i overcome them.

I just scratch the itch and continue to do so until all iches go away. In my next thread on this subject i will cover a few more methods that could help this out. Certain energy exercises can induce this, which originate at a minor chakra in the back of the neck, which is kinda like a supercomputer for all the rest. Anyway, try not eating before meditating, or drink some Orange juice before bed. The cause may also have nothing to do with meditation, i suggest you also consult a doctor about this.

I have very limited experience with this, but energy work or just waiting it out normally works for me. Have you tried putting wet cotton balls in your nose? ( i know it sounds weird but it could help ) or applying some moisturizer? things could be dry in there which would cause itching.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by phi1618]

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Well what i meant by negative aftereffects was more to do with willpower. Sometime when people do psychonaut experiences they think they must rely on the drug to induce such states.

also '___' has side effect that are physical/mental which is why i mentioned syd berret

i wouldn't classify shamans as psychonauts since they use natural substances normally in combination with chanting and rituals. '___' is not natural.




[edit on 9-8-2009 by phi1618]

reply to post by phi1618

and they always described it as a state of confusion.

I agree, but my major point was that the way you described the time element of being astral, it seemed very similar to different hallucagenic drugs. I find this important because how fast a mind can think when it is in that state. Thousands of thoughts almost instantly when your brain has begun to be attacked by the poison in the drugs. I believe this is why time can seem like a second is an hour...So many disconbobulated clear thoughts that take up such little time...if that makes sense...

By this is mean you become reliant on the substance to induce the states required to project, instead of doing it naturally.

So, according to your friends both states of mind are similar? Or maybe the same thing? Did I get that clearly? I dont want to put words in your mouth .

salvia is the closes to an projection, the rest just fall short.

Interesting. From the few experiences I have had, Salvia just makes me feel stupid. Personally I felt like a 3 year old learning to talk again... Where mushrooms your able to lose yourself in the wacky world of your own brain...and I could see (if someone could stay focused) how some of the different plains (levels) could be reached.

Anywhoo...my point is not about the drugs. It is that the whole experience is being held within the mind...

(the way drugs brings out some very odd things in the deepest parts of your brain)

So, I have to ask (from a logical perspective) when you say "projection" is it in reference to an "out of the body" experience literally where you are actually able to see things outside your body? Or is it you are able to visualize your surroundings in your "minds eye"? (This might explain why some areas of the world in your 'projections' are hazy?? Your mind may have not noticed what is actually in that part of the room)For instance those that have claimed to be at the end of the solar system...its not the actual solar system, but what they in fact visualize what they believe outer space would look like?

Am I being clear?

Either way, the whole subject is fascinating...Thanks for shedding some light...

[edit on 9-8-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Yea i would say they are similar, they are both astral, just different levels. I have my own views on this but i think that when one is on drugs they access the lower levels of the astral ( ones below he physical ).

Kinda like shamans who speak to spirits, well i think that those spirits are lower than we are here......and so on.

x100 saliva will give you a whopper, its the strongest known psychoactive hallucinogen on the earth, even stronger than '___'.

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Well what i meant by negative aftereffects was more to do with willpower. Sometime when people do psychonaut experiences they think they must rely on the drug to induce such states.

I like to avoid crutches myself, so I guess that does make me a purist to some degree. At least in that way it is available to me pretty much anywhere, anytime.

From us "purists" to the Shamen, there seems to be a long preparatory period and in the latter case people are guided by masters. It isn't taken lightly. There is the danger of your forcing yourself into something before you're ready, before you've cleared out the baggage which can confront you in unpleasant ways in other realms.

also '___' has side effect that are physical/mental which is why i mentioned syd berret

i wouldn't classify shamans as psychonauts since they use natural substances normally in combination with chanting and rituals. '___' is not natural.

Indeed it is not natural at all and as I understand it, it's not a true hallucinogen anyway like the "D"-word in Ayahuasca. The reason being is that it doesn't tend to induce hallucinations that are entirely believable.

And so, that's the last I'll say on that stuff for awhile.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Hehe i guess i would consider myself a purist also. In my view there are no shortcuts to enlightenment, only trial and error.

reply to post by phi1618



Hi, thanks for the reply, bu tis there any chance I could get your take on these questions?

So, I have to ask (from a logical perspective) when you say "projection" is it in reference to an "out of the body" experience literally where you are actually able to see things outside your body? Or is it you are able to visualize your surroundings in your "minds eye"? (This might explain why some areas of the world in your 'projections' are hazy?? Your mind may have not noticed what is actually in that part of the room)For instance those that have claimed to be at the end of the solar system...its not the actual solar system, but what they in fact visualize what they believe outer space would look like?

Am I being clear?

I f I need to rephras ethe question for clarity by all measn let me know...
thanks...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


yea sure, sorry i must have missed that one when i was answering the posts my bad.

I say astral projection because OOBE takes place in the astral layer, and it is a real time projection which is slightly different from an Astral Projection. Everything appears the same way as in the physical plane, except it is malleable and can be changed. As soon as you project your mind changes your surroundings. Its my understanding that the astral plane is actually not there in any particular shape until someone steps in to the observer seat( i will cover this is part 2 of the guide). SO when i say it can be changed by the mind, i literally mean that you have control over it to a certain extent.

Now this brings up the question that's often asked, HOW is this different from a dream, and how do i know that it is real time?

The answer is simple, one must not create while projecting to have a true OOBE. Its easier said than done, since the mind is always trying to create. Until one masters the creative forces within their mind, it is very difficult to have a true OOBE, so this is classified as Astral Projection(i like to call it partial real time). During astral projection your mind creates the experience, but at the same time you are not creating everything. As you get to different planes it become nearly as hard to create as on the physical plane. The astral plane is a very clever mix of reality and dream, while those above the astral are pure and set in stone and are very difficult to manipulate ( and follow their own rules).

Some people are able to naturally have real time OOBE's while others are able to do it after some practice.......then again it begs the question... what is reality.....???

My next post will cover these questions and how to better control your mind, and how it then becomes possible to travel beyond this time into different lines.

I hope that cleared things up for you slightly, i kinda feel like it may have dug the rabbit hole deeper. I can only speak from my experiences, and the astral planes appear slightly different to everyone. This is how ive interpreted events, and lead me to these conclusions. I encourage everyone to try to seek out their own answers.

good luck

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by open_eyeballs

 

Some people are able to naturally have real time OOBE's while others are able to do it after some practice.

I think this is because "learning" to OOBE is really about removing things more than it is adding things. It is natural for all of us. We don't truely forget it but cover the ability with distractions. For some reason, those with this "natural" power (as opposed to "those without") have less to take away. Just my humble opinion based on experience thus far.

Also, what you were saying about that astral plasticity seems right. When I was in that "freebie" OOBE I described earlier, I started to get a little fearful and started seeing a grey goo covering a certain room that gives me unease and the doorway into it. It made me more fearful and that is when I finally had enough.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


great star for you sir

you hit the nail on the head with that post learning control can be hard, or should i say remembering control

Just scratch the itches, eh? Whenever I do that, it essentially resets my session. And they usually come right on the verge of what you would consider a trance - usually 45 minutes to an hour into my meditation. Any physical movement breaks my meditation, and since itches are physical, if I leave them, the also pull me out - eventually.

I'm wondering if there's some kind of goofy gatekeeping going on...sorta like, there's a mechanism preventing me from furthering my energy work - for a reason.

/shrug

Thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by guavas
Just scratch the itches, eh? Whenever I do that, it essentially resets my session. And they usually come right on the verge of what you would consider a trance - usually 45 minutes to an hour into my meditation. Any physical movement breaks my meditation, and since itches are physical, if I leave them, the also pull me out - eventually.

I'm wondering if there's some kind of goofy gatekeeping going on...sorta like, there's a mechanism preventing me from furthering my energy work - for a reason.

/shrug

Thanks for the reply.

try moisturizing lol

Whenever i get them it takes me out or makes it impossible to trance.

do you breathe through your nose while in meditation?

if yes, your skin could be drying out in your nose b/c of airflow ( do you live in a dry climate ? )

try shoving some lotion up there

reply to post by open_eyeballs
Yes it is strange when you turn around and look at your body, I have done it just to see what my body is doing, you don't really have to turn around but I do.
It's weird to go thru walls to, if your thinking about it , like you can taste what they are made of in some strange way, I like concrete best, kind of grainie.

It is also starnge because the real and unreal are so close it seems you could be in AP and fall into a dream or vice-versa,
I have seen things and told people things that would not be possible for me to know, but I could see what was goimg on 1200 miles away.

I have problems with space sometimes I go like superman, then teeter out.

I'm on verg though, I'm going to try something big, or maybe small, I want to make sure all my eyes are dotted and ts crossed.

Yes, speaking of Shamen, I found the book "The Art of Dreaming - By Carlos Castanada" very informative, I fisrt thought those books were just fiction until I read the one I just spoke of.
To me it's like instruction manual, and I believe the old Mexican Sorcerer's did attain some special knowledge some thousands of years ago.

They never did explain the 6th or 7th gates in that book though.

Another thing I looked for that scout and have not been able to find for certain, maybe did, the other thing I have not found is thing that will be in every dream, still looking.

reply to post by googolplex


hehe i like the "taste" of old apartment building the most, especially European ones

Its very easy to fall into dream state while astral projecting if you dont have a clear goal

Originally posted by googolplex
Yes, speaking of Shamen, I found the book "The Art of Dreaming - By Carlos Castanada" very informative, I fisrt thought those books were just fiction until I read the one I just spoke of.
To me it's like instruction manual, and I believe the old Mexican Sorcerer's did attain some special knowledge some thousands of years ago.

They never did explain the 6th or 7th gates in that book though.

Another thing I looked for that scout and have not been able to find for certain, maybe did, the other thing I have not found is thing that will be in every dream, still looking.

please elaborate i would love to hear more about this

i have noticed certain people/objects/feelings present in every dream.

reply to post by phi1618
Well with Carlos, Don Juan told him he had to find a scout when he was in astral, dream state, the way to spot Scout is that as you look around you will see some thing that keeps changing shape, if approach it you can tell it to take you any where you want to go.
Any where but you need to watch out for the inorganic beings, if you go there they will answer any question you ask, but they will try and trap you in there dimension, universe.

The other thing subject, I have heard this from many, there is something that is always in your dreams, always ,if you can find it, just by thinking of that thing you will go back to that state.







[edit on 10-8-2009 by googolplex]

Awesome thread, just finished it. I'm always interested in the Astral.

Can't wait to meet others in the real time zone!

Quick question, for first timers trying this out, would you recommend someone siting cross legged on the floor, laying down etc?

I tried it last night laying down but I fell asleep in like 5 minutes, but that's because I was just tired but today I really plan on doing it to my fullest.

thanks, and great thread by the way!