We are voting about whether it is OK to smack your kids

Originally posted by spellbound
Can you believe that we, in NZ, are voting on whether it is OK to smack your kids?

Obviously, people in Britain believe it is OK, and so do our Maori and Pacific Island population.

I disagree. I do not think people have the right to smack their kids - that is abuse.

You do not own your kids - you are just custodians, hopefully teaching them right from wrong, and also teaching them to love - abused kids do not love anyone, including themselves.

If you don't smack your kids - that is child abuse. Failing to give them useful instruction and discipline is to leave them without the proper tools required to succeed.

While I do not think children should be taught to conform - in fact they should be taught to rebel, but to do so intellectually, with reason - rather than out of social immaturity - they should also be taught that regardless of whether they respect people or not, they need to show respect - and act with dignity.

Social strata is based on behaviours and values - those without discipline, restraint, dignity and respect descend to the bottom - that is a definition of lower class or poverty. Personally I despise the social classes game - but to succeed, you need to at least understand the rules - whether you use them privately or not is your own business.

THose values need to be instilled, and without physical punishment - children often will not learn them.

I raised 4 kids, all adults now. I never "smacked" (face?) any of them. Maybe a swat on the butt once, but I honestly can't remember doing even that. But here's the kicker - I could have if I had deemed it necessary. We are getting the government way too deep into our lives. This should be a family or church issue, not government. Do you really want the people who brought you the aftermath of Katrina telling you how to raise your kids? I say this - Government, STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE!

And stay out of my car!!

If I want to smoke with kiddo in the car I will- not that I do- but what next? cant smoke in my house? butt out of my life government I'll raise kiddo the way I want.

I would vote yes to the smack, that is whats wrong with kids today, they are pandered to and we are breeding a generation of spoilt little brats that think the world owes them something.

I was in a Dollar General ...waiting in line up to the cashier, when over to the side, a little girl about 8 or 9 starting beating on her Grandmother because her Grandmother would not buy her a pair of pants she wanted. The Grandmother told the girl she could not afford to buy them and the child tried to slap the Grandmother's face. The Grandmother held her off with her arm turned toward her own face. The child screamed .."I want it, I want it!!"Slapping still at her Grandmother. Finally... a woman told the child to stop or she would call the police. She did stop. BUT..as soon as she was outside she started beating on her Grandmother again. We all felt so bad for the lady... we could see she was crying. Even when the Grandmother was in the car we could see the child screaming at her. NOW...everyone of us in that store would love to have been able to paddle her little butt!!!! This is not the first incident that I have seen of children who pitched a tantrum in a store because they weren't getting what they wanted, but that was the first time I had ever seen a child hitting on an adult!!

I think its more abusive to let a kid get away with everything then get dumped into life at 18 thinking its all roses and lollipops only to be greeted by the real world. In the real world if you mouth off you're likely to get punched in the face. If you slack off at work you're going to be living on the street. There's a reason my generation is thought of as the most useless generation to date, We were never punished at all, if someone saw one of us get a back hand for mouthing off or just being generally bad... it was always the abusive parent being mean to that "poor child"

...


I only wish I got disciplined more.. really I could have crucified the family cat and nothing would have been done to me. Not being disciplined enough nearly ruined me.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by Raverous]

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
I believe its ok to "pow pow" your kids if the situation warrants it. I'm not saying beat your kids or abuse them or break their little spirits. But different things call for different punishments . When my son was two he went through this biting phase for a week , after 3 or 4 bites throughout the week and after I explained to him that it isn't ok and why , I bit his little arm back. (fairly light pressure) he never bit again. At two years old he couldn't understand that the biting was causing pain , and he thought it was a game. (you can't reason with a two year old , they're like little ID's Running around) It wasn't until I observed him at his daycare that I saw where he learned this behavior from. Some other kid who's parents probably don't discipline him or think that it's cute. You raise your kid your way , I'll raise my kid my way. Let your kid be a little ill behaved biting beast , It just reflects on how you raise him. If you don't love your kid enough to discipline him and teach him right from wrong , shame on you. These are probably the same people that let the Television raise their kids.

I dont like the smacking bit, and I really dont see a need for it (that is only my opinion) But, I do agree with giving back what was done!
My mother did it, we did start off with smacks, but with 8 kids it got a bit much. So my mother decided that whatever we did, and was proven, she would do back to us.
Example.
My brother and his friend decided that spitting (real Huck type) was OK, and it was also OK to test this on my little sisters face.
My mother HATES spitting with a vengeance, and can only just BARELY stand the sound of people doing the Huck as such, but she still did it right back to them, almost made her ill, and she did it in their faces as they did to my sister, and it was never done again. In fact the total and utter shame and embarrassment was enough.

Then she caught my little brother and sister, whilst visiting my G-pa, decided to shop lift.
When she found out, they both had to draw up a poster big A3 size(after going to the shop and making them give the stuff back), and write what they did on it, then they had to place this on their bedroom doors,which in our house as you walked through the front door you could see very easily, telling everyone of their shame, and they hated it - they tried many a time to remove the posters and there was tantrum galore, even worse when they had friends over, cause they were grounded and couldn't go anywhere, well embarrassed to say the least, again they have never done this since.

The way I see it, if you give them back what they served, they certainly dont like it.

Any yes discipline comes with love.

Oh, I got that referendum thing in my mail. I threw it in the bin, but I don't really care about people that use a light smack as a form of discipline. It's not something I plan on doing when I have children (heh, which seems like it'll be a long way down the road with my luck), but if corrects a child's behaviour then a little smack can't hurt.

okay firstly the right minded people should be able to smack there kids when they out right disobey theyre parents! AT a certain age like maybe 13 and up! certainly not when there younger than that! sorry for yelling this but i feel it is important for people to understand the difference. i was smacked across the face when i disrespected my parents and ill tell you what, i dont dare do it ever again! and my mom always said if you dont give me respect i will take it from you! i live by that to this day.....S + F

how about everyone take their noses out of my private business to begin with.
No one should mandate to me how to raise my child to begin with.

Any sane person will feed, bath, clothe, etc their child...Along with teaching and playing.

Discipline is also one of the most vital parts of raising a child...
These parents that dont set boundaries let there kids run free and do almost as they wish, eat what ever they desire, are in my opinion far greater child abusers than a parent that smacks a kid on the bum.

I have every right in this world to smack my child, and let me say I do smack my little girl when she goes to far...
I don't like doing it, I hate it to be honest, but I am her parent and I set the rules and boundaries for her at this point in time, not the other way around.

I must also say that I smack as a last resort, and as little as possible so that if she does get a smack from dad she knows it's business....I cant see the point in smacking over every little thing, it would have no impact.
I always , always! kiss her and tell her that I love her, and explain why she received a smack or any other form of discipline.
*by last resort I do not in any way imply anger either!

I much prefer to reason with her, use time out, etc etc...and it works a charm most of the times even if you have to be super patient.
And that is the magic word patients....

Child abuse is another matter altogether.....!



But I will say again I don't want any other expert, do gooder, government, busy body, telling me how to discipline my child....& to be brutally honest I take my lead from a higher authority. If I need advise I will be the 1st to ask for it, Trust me!

Just to add to the people that want to try and equate a smack with child abuse....

Let me just say this.....
I was abused and shaken and whaled on, the difference between that and a smack is like night to day.

Let me say that the mental abuse is far worse than any physical abuse as a child, bruises heal quick but mental psychological abuse and bruises take so much longer to heal!

You'll never be anything
I wish I never had you
you ruined my life
I hate you
These are just a few of the classics I had...


Words are far more damaging to a child than any reasonable disciplinary smack!

Do we also now put mic's into every persons home to monitor what parents say to children, or have a vote on what parents are allowed to say....because it has that much more effect on how that little child will grow up than any other stimuli.



My girl hears me say as many times as I can a day
I love you
daddy and mummy loves you lots
You are beautiful
You are smart
You are a good girl
you are clever
You can be anything you want when you get older
YES

.....but she will get a sore bum if she goes to far...




[edit on 6-8-2009 by 297GT]

[edit on 6-8-2009 by 297GT]

reply to post by 297GT

how about everyone take their noses out of my private business to begin with.
No one should mandate to me how to raise my child to begin with.

...and so we should, up to the point of not allowing signs of abuse to go unremarked and unacted upon.

Smack on the bum as a reminder. No problem. As you say, shaken/screamed at...big problem.

We don't need more laws, we need enforcement/followup on the ones already there.

Glad to hear/read you've broken away from that cycle, which is repeated all too often over generations... Well done.

my wife and i have 5 kids total (2 adopted) and so far we have 1 alien, 2 guitar players, and i have no doubt the remaining 2 will choose something just as fun. i have no sports stars (thank the gods for that one) and all are seem to be well adjusted.

that said, if the situation arises, my wife and i are not afraid to bust some tail ends if the need arises and they know that without a doubt. because they know the level of discipline rises according to behavior, all i have to say is do not push me to that level..... thats it, the end.

kids that do not have that (or at least the idea that their parent might spank them) are unruly at best and young felons at worst.

cheers,
AA

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by seagull

 

Here I am, back again for more punishment.

What did those words do to my mother?

They challenged her total dictactorship, that is what they did.

This episode cut my heart, and it challenged her rulership.

So who was hurt more?

Really?? You resent your mom To_this_day because of that? Maybe you don't have the "right" to challenge her "dictatorship"? She's your mother afterall, apparently not smacking you on the ass did nothing to show you that there is a level of respect that is required of you by your elders? Lol you had it much easier than a huge lot. If you think that, that "episode" cut your heart open then you obviously were not raised correctly. Lets allow all of our children to be "expressive" and let em to whatever they want with no consequences! Oh wait that has already happened! Just look at the world we live in now??? This will all come in to view as more time passes. You're promoting anarchy in every fashion without reaslizing it. If you like Anarchy, then let your kids express themselves without punishment all you want!

You should do what you need to do to make sure your child obeys the rules and grows up with a sense of respect.

Whoopin's all around.

reply to post by 297GT


i cant agree with you anymore than i already do man....bra vo!

When a dog poops on the living room floor you smack its nose, followed by a good rubbing of nose in the smelly little parcel, you then throw it outside, the dog soon learns its not ok to crap indoors. If a child does something wrong, like smash something in a tantrum because you wouldn't give him 10p for a bag of sweets, you smack his hands, or bum. The child soon learns if he behaves innapropriatly he will recieve his punishment swiftly, and therefore, usually learns not to do it again. I don't think this sort of discipline works when you just shout at a child or lock him // her in their room.

I'm all for smacking, as long as its within reason, and never to the face. This world will be even worse off than it is if we couldn't discipline our children in this way. Kids are getting worse IMO and i reckon thats because parents are too afraid of being brought up on abuse charges if they give their children whats coming to them.

These days i see young ones like 10 (ish) year old, and some of the language they use or the behaviour they display to other people, i'm ashamed to admitt, i do think "kid, you, need punched in the back of the head!", if people just administered a good spanking when their child is growing up, this wouldn't happen, and I (and probably many other people) wouldn't have these nasty thoughts! lol

If you talk back or rude you should get smacked or spanked. Usually it only needs to be done a few times and the kid learns not to do it. The younger the easier and faster they learn. I don't think the debate is about the punishment as that is left up to family and cultural ideology and should be a personal choice. There are already good laws out there to deal with child abuse. Government control is not something you want in running your family.
This seems to be just another wave after wave of liberty being wash away.

Originally posted by spellbound
You do not own your kids - you are just custodians, hopefully teaching them right from wrong, and also teaching them to love - abused kids do not love anyone, including themselves.

There is a massive difference to smacking a child for specific reasons and abusing a child violently.

There is also a massive difference to raising a spirited child to one who is pliable. So how they are handled is completely different.

I would think too that a percentage of white New Zealanders would also agree along with Maori and Islander communities.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child", does not mean don't smack them. It means that if you do not use the rod when required, you will spoil that person.. as in letting it spoil.

In all nature you will see parenting which shows love, protection and a smack when needed. It is natural. We on the other hand have had a percentage of people who abused children, in all aspects of society and so we decided to stop that.

We failed. Abusers still abuse, and most are undetected while appropriate smack parenting has put people in jail, torn family's apart and done more harm to children than the original smack would have.

Most of us who were raised being smacked appropriately agree it did us no harm and as an adult we can thank our folks for caring enough to have to do what they don't want to.

And those of us who were beaten as kids, have wanted not to parent as we experienced it, but find we have a tendency to. Some are able to stop, some simply easy-parent so that they never reach a place when they might, and some have seen it for what it was... a human being who did the best they could under their circumstances.

My dad is a Viet Nam Vet, he came home very violent and a drunkard. Once I learned enough about the Viet Nam experience I could easily understand how hard it was for him to have any control. Then I could forgive him and today I honestly hug him.

"Sins of the father is visited upon seven generations." This is male specific due to the patriarchal nature of the Hebrews, but, it applies to both men and women. It means, as we become parents we will find times when we are doing what out parents did. In that moment of realising this, we have the Choice to end that cycle right there. Our kids and their's will not continue the negative trait into further generations.

So, I vote for appropriate smacking only.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by Tayesin]

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by lardo5150

 

Why not try talking and reasoning?

If kids had a bit more interaction with parents, they could probably be quite reasonable.

The problem is that parents cut themselves off from their kids, and then become the big bosses, along with teachers - the Enemy!

I agree with you, we talk to our kids daily, i like to know how they are doing, what they want to do and I appreciate their opinions. I've only spanked my son once, for breaking a glass on purpose, he was 2. After that we didn't have many incidents with him, we've had to take things away from him, which is how I currently discipline. Same with my two girls, they are aged 6 and 8 and I feel even if I were to spank they are too old. The taking away of video games, the computer, toys and friends has worked wonders. I know many parents who discipline this way along with being sent to their room, and they rarely have any outbursts.

I would suggest either people look into 1*2*3 Magic or positive parenting. I was also spanked with a belt, but then again I was also pushed down the stairs, kicked, hit, and a few times my Dad grabbed me and threw me quit a few times. He had anger issues. I do not do any of those things to my children. My 6 year old has never been spanked in her life, but she has had many time outs and sent to her room. It's something to think about.

Do I think the Government should pass anti-spanking laws, oh hell no!! I do not want them controlling my lives or anyone else's. Just because I don't spank doesn't mean there should be a law against it. Well that is jut my 2 cents.

...stupid referendum anyway, the question itself is debateable:

"Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?"

...how ambiguous is that question??
...define smack, define good parental correction...

...and we're paying 9 Million bucks for something that doesn't actually have to be implemented anyway??


...dunno what I'm more disappointed about - the fact we are spending so much money in such times on such nonsense...or the fact the only options were 'Yes' and 'No'...

...I was looking for the 'Beat them with a stick' option...