Roger Leir - Alien Implants

I want to know what some of you guys think of Roger Leir and his evidence of extraterrestrial implants. Lots of skeptics claim that there's no physical evidence but he has implants that were studied by world class labs and scientists and everything seems to point to them being of extraterrestrial origin. Some think he is a hoax, however. But in my opinion at least I think this is good physical evidence. Watch the videos please, I wanna know what everyone else thinks about this guy.

He along with phD metallurgist, Head of Analytical Services, and Senior Member of the Technical staff at YTC America Inc Alex Moser were featured in the X Conference. Leir comes on at the end of part 7, followed by Moser, and then Leir again in part 10.

Part 7: www.youtube.com...
Part 8: www.youtube.com...
Part 9: www.youtube.com...
Part 10: www.youtube.com...

Here's some other convincing videos of Leir's findings:

www.youtube.com... (watch 5:00 onward for Leir) video about leir and his findings being examined by world class labs
www.youtube.com... Discovery Channel video, implants studied by Doug Perovic, chief of science and engineering at the University of Toronto
www.youtube.com... Dr. Leir at the National UFO Congress
www.youtube.com... Also here's a video with him of alleged debris from the Roswell Incident being examined

For me this is pretty convincing evidence. He had his implants studied by labs such as Los Alamos, which recommended further examination, and New Mexico Tech, which found traces of metals from rare meteorites in the implants. In the actual report which you see in the video New Mexico Tech states that they may come from an extraterrestrial origin, from meteorites, except they don't know that they were extracted from human bodies! Not only that but from all the implants he found, many of them looking exactly alike, no points of entry into the human body were found, there was no inflammatory response, and you couldn't cut them with a surgical blade. He was also featured in the X Conference which was covered by CNN and Alex Moser who examined his findings has impeccable credentials.

I would simply say, that if the least probable explanation is true, and that would be ET origin of these things, then they are not "exotic" enough to scream Alien Implant. This may be by design, who knows? Maybe they are implants that are so advanced they appear to be nothing more than pebbles that contain a conglomerate of materials once examined, but nothing recognizable to us as a "probe" or anything.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I would simply say, that if the least probable explanation is true, and that would be ET origin of these things, then they are not "exotic" enough to scream Alien Implant. This may be by design, who knows? Maybe they are implants that are so advanced they appear to be nothing more than pebbles that contain a conglomerate of materials once examined, but nothing recognizable to us as a "probe" or anything.

that's a really fair answer. I too speculated that, if we go all the way down the alien path, its ultimately being too naive in the way we examine the object.

the problem is this guy has known to been caught up in doing surgery for removal of objects that are clearly not unusual in his chase to find more implants. He's also been issued some kind of penalty from the state board of medical examiners. I don't know what that means, but its certainly something to consider.

also, via this link explains the attacks on him.
Personally I can say this could sway either way.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by bananasam]

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


What should they look like then? Should they be inscribed "Made on Mars"?

If you were an alien scientist tracking life on earth and saw the level of technological advancement and really truly just wanted to study humans "in the wild"...would you make something that screamed "higher technology"? Or would you disguise it?

I'd like those who think accept the Los Alamos "ET" origins explanation but don't think its an implant to xplain how particles from a meteor (I'm assuming that is your suggestion) would become embedded in someone's big toe, their nasal cavity, or their arm without their knowledge and/or significant scarring.

Los Alamos labs said that these things resembled meteorites, folks they come from out there not here.

Unless debunkers can provide evidence that these people are lying then this is poof positive of ALIEN CONNTACT.

reply to post by AliensExist


Have not watched the vids yet. But I think I remember hearing something about some or all of these implants giving off some type of radio frequency? I could be wrong...will watch vids now...

reply to post by A Fortiori
There are a few ways people can find objects are lodged inside the body or under the skin. For decades there's a medical term foreign bodies. The ones in the link are ingested and X-rayed. Children can swallow something that shows up years later...grit, glass, metal pellets anything. People in or near vehicle traffic accidents can have small fragments of glass and/ or metal penetrate the skin and become lost in the general injuries on the skin surface. People in the Military have discovered shrapnel via unrelated X-Rays years later.

In a list of explanations for how a foreign body is found inside a human...'aliens put it there' is not quite at the top.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

There are a few ways people can find objects are lodged inside the body or under the skin. For decades there's a medical term foreign bodies. The ones in the link are ingested and X-rayed. Children can swallow something that shows up years later...grit, glass, metal pellets anything. People in or near vehicle traffic accidents can have small fragments of glass and/ or metal penetrate the skin and become lost in the general injuries on the skin surface. People in the Military have discovered shrapnel via unrelated X-Rays years later.

In a list of explanations for how a foreign body is found inside a human...'aliens put it there' is not quite at the top.

Riiiiiiiiight...

So people who have described being part of an alien abduction... go in for surgery and have a foreign item removed from their body which seemingly was not from this planet.... and the implant seemed to have intelligence where it appeared to avoid being removed whilst under surgery..... and you reckon it's just shrapnel from when they were a kid

I love these debunkers..... come up with "theories" on everything with not the smallest bit of evidence to back up their theory........ anything as long as it doesn't require them to give the answer of "I can't explain maybe it really is an alien implant". Noisy Negativists.

Originally posted by Total Package
Riiiiiiiiight...

So people who have described being part of an alien abduction... go in for surgery and have a foreign item removed from their body which seemingly was not from this planet.... and the implant seemed to have intelligence where it appeared to avoid being removed whilst under surgery..... and you reckon it's just shrapnel from when they were a kid

I love these debunkers..... come up with "theories" on everything with not the smallest bit of evidence to back up their theory........ anything as long as it doesn't require them to give the answer of "I can't explain maybe it really is an alien implant". Noisy Negativists.

So you're 100%, unquestionable in regards to alien implants?

All Kadinsky implied was that there are very logical, very *plausable* explanations as to how and why certain items can be found in the human body.

Sure, not everything fits that model, but it's still far more likely. That isn't to say the alien motif is 'impossible' - it's just unlikely.

Die-hard believers are just as bad as die-hard debunkers.

A good analysis should attempt to use all available means to first eliminate any everyday, logical and probably explanation first. They, when there is no other probably or likley explanation, then you can move on to the ET side.

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by Total Package
Riiiiiiiiight...

So people who have described being part of an alien abduction... go in for surgery and have a foreign item removed from their body which seemingly was not from this planet.... and the implant seemed to have intelligence where it appeared to avoid being removed whilst under surgery..... and you reckon it's just shrapnel from when they were a kid

I love these debunkers..... come up with "theories" on everything with not the smallest bit of evidence to back up their theory........ anything as long as it doesn't require them to give the answer of "I can't explain maybe it really is an alien implant". Noisy Negativists.

So you're 100%, unquestionable in regards to alien implants?

All Kadinsky implied was that there are very logical, very *plausable* explanations as to how and why certain items can be found in the human body.

Sure, not everything fits that model, but it's still far more likely. That isn't to say the alien motif is 'impossible' - it's just unlikely.

Die-hard believers are just as bad as die-hard debunkers.

A good analysis should attempt to use all available means to first eliminate any everyday, logical and probably explanation first. They, when there is no other probably or likley explanation, then you can move on to the ET side.

You know what.... You can come up with "logical explanations" for everything in the world and not a single one can be correct.

I will give you an example. I've studied PSI and psychic ability for 22 years. One of the things I do is go head to head with skeptics and demand they give evidence for their "theories" that psychics "Cold Read" for example.

It took me years to finally nail a skeptic down to give me a detail report on a psychic reading and what he thought constituted "cold reading". I wanted him to explain the ENTIRE reading away... not just the bits he could...... something that all skeptics such as Michael Shermer never do.

The results were startling. He came up with "logical explanations" for everything... and some of it was the worst stuff I had ever heard. For example the Psychic was able to accurately describe that the deceased person owned a Number 7 baseball jersey...... which the family member confirmed as Micky Mantle who was his favourite player and the jersey he had. Do you know the skeptic said that was "Hot Reading" because he "guessed" that most people's lucky number is 7 and it was likely he would have the number 7 on a jersey as a result. Have you ever heard something so stupid in your life.... yet this skeptic was convinced he was right........................................ (continued)

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Total Package]

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Total Package]

Originally posted by noonebutme

So you're 100%, unquestionable in regards to alien implants?

All Kadinsky implied was that there are very logical, very *plausable* explanations as to how and why certain items can be found in the human body.

Sure, not everything fits that model, but it's still far more likely. That isn't to say the alien motif is 'impossible' - it's just unlikely.

Die-hard believers are just as bad as die-hard debunkers.

A good analysis should attempt to use all available means to first eliminate any everyday, logical and probably explanation first. They, when there is no other probably or likley explanation, then you can move on to the ET side.

Now I proved this even further than Debunkers and Skeptics will go out of their way to debunk something if it goes against their "belief system".

As a test I went on a forum and told a bunch of people that I had met someone famous.... and that they had a son who has a unique J name that I can't remember.... and that they told me when they were visiting my country that they copped a parking fine... and how crap our parking inspectors are.... and that he loves a certain brand of beer.

Everyone on the forum said "How cool!! yeah his son's name is Javan.... that would have been awesome to meet him... what was he like"

I then went to that same forum which happened to be a Skeptic forum.... and instead of telling them I met that person... I told them a psychic told me that information about that person and how real it turned out....."

Do you know that every single person in there managed to "debunk" my actual conversation..... purely because I used the word "psychic" and they didn't believe it. They used every "Logical explanation" under the sun to try and convince me that the information I was given.... was all lucky guesses and cold reading and that there were "logical explanations" as to how I got given the info.

When I told them that actually it wasn't a psychic it was the actual person... and it was a real actual conversation I had... but I wanted to prove to them that they were so blinded by their own skeptic belief system and their continual theories of "logical thinking" that they could explain away every single conversation in human history..... they all accused me of lying... because they didn't want to admit they were wrong and they were caught out.

This is why "logical explanations" is the biggest pile of crock. It PROVES nothing... all it does is placate the average Skeptic into believing that maybe they are right and it's not something for which they don't believe in. It's all about EGO.

If a pin, part of a needle, a bit of earthly grit, a bit of man-made plastic or similar object were discovered in my body, then I'd certainly accept them as being not suspicious for all the reasons proposed in an above post, i.e., accident, unintentional inclusion with food, childhood or domestic incident, etc.

If an object clearly of sophisticated, intelligent design and of unknown origin were discovered in my body, I'd be demanding answers. For example, if a tracking device were discovered in my body, I'd be making strenuous attempts to locate its origin and demanding my doctors do likewise, in addition to taking the issue to the media.

Originally posted by Total Package
This is why "logical explanations" is the biggest pile of crock. It PROVES nothing... all it does is placate the average Skeptic into believing that maybe they are right and it's not something for which they don't believe in. It's all about EGO.

Well, not trying to flame you or anything, but that last bit just made me push away from the table and walk away, metaphorically speaking.

It's not about "placating" the average Skeptic. It's about showing you've taken a scientific, empirical approach to your analysis and attempted to show, to the best of your ability, that the phenomena in question is NOT explainable through conventional or everyday means.

I'm certainly not calling your opinions into question - that's what you believe then so be it.

All I am saying is that skeptics are a very valuable asset to this type of analysis.

Of course anyone being a skeptic for the purpose of just being obstinant isn't useful. But someone who makes you re-evaluate your analysis is always a good thing.

And that psychic stuff of predicting and naming dead relatives, etc -- having read up a great deal on cold-reading/calling and watching numerous "Darren Brown" shows, I would never say people like "John Edwards" are any form of proof of psychic abilities (of which I *do* believe in, btw!)

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by Total Package
This is why "logical explanations" is the biggest pile of crock. It PROVES nothing... all it does is placate the average Skeptic into believing that maybe they are right and it's not something for which they don't believe in. It's all about EGO.

Well, not trying to flame you or anything, but that last bit just made me push away from the table and walk away, metaphorically speaking.

It's not about "placating" the average Skeptic. It's about showing you've taken a scientific, empirical approach to your analysis and attempted to show, to the best of your ability, that the phenomena in question is NOT explainable through conventional or everyday means.

I'm certainly not calling your opinions into question - that's what you believe then so be it.

All I am saying is that skeptics are a very valuable asset to this type of analysis.

Of course anyone being a skeptic for the purpose of just being obstinant isn't useful. But someone who makes you re-evaluate your analysis is always a good thing.

Don't get me wrong... I have absolutely no problem with skeptics at all..... I'm all for skeptics.... the open minded ones. The problem I have with some skeptics is when they stop having an open mind and start using their skepticism to debunk things with little to no research or proof at all.

When your default answer to everything becomes "It's probably a weatherballoon" or "It looks like a bird to me" or "Alien implants are probably debris you collect through life" that is SLOPPY skepticism to me.... that's when your ego gets in the way and you are being skeptical because you want to prove you are right and someone else is wrong..... and doing it with little to no basis of evidence. That's when I have an issue with skepticism.

I am a very skeptical person.... I'm skeptical about all UFO sightings being aliens from another planet... but I extend my skepticism to those in the scientific community who are closed minded who quote science and what they consider "icons" like Carl Sagan

Originally posted by noonebutme
And that psychic stuff of predicting and naming dead relatives, etc -- having read up a great deal on cold-reading/calling and watching numerous "Darren Brown" shows, I would never say people like "John Edwards" are any form of proof of psychic abilities (of which I *do* believe in, btw!)

Unfortunately when I hear the name "Derren Brown" and then someone mispronounce John Edward as "John Edwards" I know they are unfortunately relying on the source of debunkers and not their own investigation.

Derren Brown is a magician... an illusionalist.. and most importantly a skeptic with an agenda. The fact that he tricks people into thinking they are watching how a psychic works.... using methods that are not even close to how psychic's relay their information is disgraceful because unfortunately the uneducated public all sit there going "ohhhhhhhhh I knew there was a trick to it" without actually seeing for themselves that what Derren Brown does is crap.

Anyone that has been to an actual respected psychic and watched them work.... would know that it is absolutely nothing like the crap Derren Brown dishes up. Derren Brown can saw someone in half in front of you.... and trick you into thinking they've been sawn in half..... it doesn't mean he has proven to the world that someone cannot be sawn in half yet that is what he claims.

I've twice had the pleasure of watching John Edward work live.... and he is one of the most amazing psychics around. Anyone that calls him a cold reader and quotes the work of Derren Brown or Michael Shermer has not done their homework.

I've been watching this guy for over a decade maybe 2 now? Whenever he first released these so called implants he found it was on mainstream media I think it was on in the 80's first time on "Sightings"? I believe is where I first saw him.

I don't doubt these items may have somehow been artificially placed in people or that their make-up seems to be not of this planet all the time however,

black projects are so far advanced that I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a govt. thing. There are so many things that people are not aware of even now it's mind boggling when it comes to black projects.

An example is the F-117 stealth fighter. When the govt. claims this was put into service and when it was actually flying are 2 different dates. I would be more specific than that but I can't just due to my military background and what it would mean if they decided they didn't like what I was saying.

I'm 100% convinced these strange items exist because we can see them ourselves and am 80% convinced, if they are not naturally occurring, they would be linked directly to the/a govt.

I am however 50/50 on whether or not they are just some anomaly that forms in the human body or placed there.

reply to post by Total Package
I'll be glad when school's open again and you're kept busy elsewhere. My post didn't rule out implants. D-i-d-n-t. My post was in support of Ignore the Facts and drew attention to the f-a-c-t (fact) that whatever foreign bodies (objects, items etc) are removed from a person...the most probable reason will not be that aliens put them there. I explained it in terms of a LIST whereby 'aliens did it' wouldn't be at the top of the list.

Judging by your ludicrous 2 post reply, I suspect you may have an implant somewhere up your posterior...commonly known as a stick.

A friend of mine has recently qualified as a nurse. She described a guy that needed a glass milk bottle removing from his rear end. Funnily enough, the gentleman was also at a loss to explain how it got there. Let me guess....you've RVed the incident and can determine aliens did that too?

reply to post by Total Package


Well, that "John Edward" chap is far worse than Darren Brown.

At least Brown admits that what he does is trickery and slight of hand and if asked when performing icognito, he will admit it's a trick. He's not trying to trick people malliciously -- it's all for fun and to show how peoples' minds work when it comes to patterns, recognition and predictability.

"John Edward" on the otherhand, is utter tripe. I've watched his show and he's a classic example of cold-reading; often he does the usual, "I'm getting a P - it's a P for Paul, Peter, Parry.. is that you Ma'am?" . But what makes him worse, IMO, is that he sells this crap as 'real' -- he's playing on the emotional states of people who have lost family/loved ones. He pretends it's real and he charges people for this! WIth Brown, people know it's a show, they know it's illusions. That's why I find him [Edward] utter bollocks.

To be honest, I expected you to like Brown and dislike Edward, what with Edward being the cheat. Funny that

[edit on 3-8-2009 by noonebutme]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

There are a few ways people can find objects are lodged inside the body or under the skin. For decades there's a medical term foreign bodies. The ones in the link are ingested and X-rayed. Children can swallow something that shows up years later...grit, glass, metal pellets anything. People in or near vehicle traffic accidents can have small fragments of glass and/ or metal penetrate the skin and become lost in the general injuries on the skin surface. People in the Military have discovered shrapnel via unrelated X-Rays years later.

In a list of explanations for how a foreign body is found inside a human...'aliens put it there' is not quite at the top.

You sounded a little bit ignorant when you posted this. I know your letting people know about foreign bodies, but when the material has been tested, and it turns out it is from a meteorite i think it rules out glass/common metal/etc straight away. On top of this you have the patients claiming they were abducted? Also these objects have a membrane which cannot be cut by a scalpel, so i really do not understand your logic....

Did you actually watch the video? Or did you just guess what the guy was going to say then typed? When you sarcastically said 'aliens put it there' is not quite at the top' were you just completely ignoring the evidence? Or what? Im confused........

I would just imagine that if there was any way that these things could be identified as Alien Implants, with as long as this guy has been shouting about this stuff, it would have been by now. Every lab in the world would have been involved, he would be RICH doing National Geographic specials and authoring a NYT best seller by now.

The reason that is not the case I believe are a few things. Either his claims are bunk and his patients are highly questionable, or the implants are so advanced (like I said) that there is simply not enough to go on for mainstream science to pick up and run with....which relegates this to the world of the internet.

Perhaps, also, if the so-called representatives of Ufology have not made this subject into the laughing matter that it is today, more folks would take a look into this and if it was Alien, maybe the more heads looking at it the better.

And you can't blame the "skeptics" for making this subject a joke now can you?

reply to post by Sloppy
I made no comment on Leir or his implants. I was pointing out that foreign objects have been removed from patients for many years. They are a well known aspect of medical science.

I've seen Leir's stuff before, he's been around a long time. He makes some claims that I find questionable. He states that the objects don't provoke inflammmatory reactions and that's impossible in natural cases. That's not true. Some items removed from adults have been in situ for many years without such a reaction.

The Roper Poll that Dr Moser cites as evidence for mass abductions has been criticized as 'leading.' Thecriticism shows that poll results were biased by the format, questions and images.I point this out to explain that it's not a case of dismissing or agreeing with Leir's claims. His whole case that these are 'alien implants' needs to be looked at.

Watching the videos, we have the claims of Leir being supported by Moser. We have one other video that adds authenticity to the conclusions by being filmed by Discovery in an independent lab. Damn...the video cuts short of the independent lab giving us the report. A quick look for the extended version draws a blank. The same abbreviated video is found on Disclose TV...supporter of Exopolitics.

Leir has released books and DVDs on his alien implants. He is willing to remove implants from people that believe they've been abducted. Maybe they have? Maybe they haven't? Until he removes an implant in supervised conditions with independent medical surgeons...he's only got a story. I'm not saying that he's a charlatan. I'm saying that until he raises his game in terms of evidence, it's impossible to say he isn't.

It's getting close to twenty years since his first recovery of an implant...he cites over a hundred removals since. Where is are microscope images and scientific literature to support his claims. He's a qualified foot doctor and should be fluent in the requirements of scientific evidence.

Ignore The Facts, I agree. I'd also point out that the X-Conferences have serious credibility issues on any number of levels.