Shock: Inside the Obama Healthcare Bill

Can I see an actual copy of this rather than some 14 year old myspace language? It's not believable with that teen speak.

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
Also go to a Cuban Pharmacy and compare drug prices with the US. You'll be outraged that we are being so taken advantage of. There is no other place on Earth were doctors are paid so much.
[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

And the average income in Cuba is what? And what are your chances for prosperity in Cuba?

Would you say there is more or less opportunity in the U.S. to make money than in Cuba (legally)?

Does Cuba possess the medical technology and knowledge in just about every small to midsize town the way the U.S. does? And is that kind of technology and knowledge cheap?

Thank you. That's why our costs are higher.

Cuba happens to have some of the finest medical care in the world. Many travel there for treatment. Also Cuba has more doctors per capita than any other country.

I'm not making this up the US has greater than 500,000% markups on prescription drugs.

Medical care should be a god given right, and never allowed to become a bargaining chip.

Example: Yeah I'll save your arm for $100,000 or just patch ya up for $25,000 the choice is yours. Have a nice day.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
Also go to a Cuban Pharmacy and compare drug prices with the US. You'll be outraged that we are being so taken advantage of. There is no other place on Earth were doctors are paid so much.
[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

And the average income in Cuba is what? And what are your chances for prosperity in Cuba?

Would you say there is more or less opportunity in the U.S. to make money than in Cuba (legally)?

Does Cuba possess the medical technology and knowledge in just about every small to midsize town the way the U.S. does? And is that kind of technology and knowledge cheap?

Thank you. That's why our costs are higher.

Cuba happens to have some of the finest medical care in the world. Many travel there for treatment. Also Cuba has more doctors per capita than any other country.

But that doesn't answer any of my questions, does it? At no time did I ever say Cuban doctors were dumb or uneducated. But in the U.S. we have access to technologies that they don't.

So my other questions stand. Where is the common citizen more likely to be prosperous and able to obtain a job with health care benefits - the U.S. or Cuba? And with those types of jobs, how can Americans complain about the out of pocket costs of medicines that are needed when they shell out as much or more per month for cigarettes and alcohol?


[edit on 22-7-2009 by sos37]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

I watched once as a guy in Canada was told about a man in Florida who lost a couple fingers and was told they could save both for $60,000 one for $30,000 or just bandage and clean up for $2,500.

Didn't happen. Hospitals are not allowed to refuse or limit any one to certain types of care..

But the Gov. ran HC will be able to do so.......

The Canadian freaked out and whole heartedly thought someone should be locked up over the ordeal. It is petty and cruel not to provide care for those who cannot afford it.

If that were so then someone should be locked up, but I doubt that any hospital would risk such liability...

Also go to a Cuban Pharmacy and compare drug prices with the US. You'll be outraged that we are being so taken advantage of.

I agree with you about the markups that we pay. When asked why they charge US patients so much for drugs the responded, because Americans will pay that much for it. So I'm sure that part of the reason for the low prices that other peoples around the world is due in part to our mark ups. Not to mention that alot of those advances in medicines are also paid for by U.S. patients. The world reaps the benefits ouf our mark ups.

There is no other place on Earth were doctors are paid so much.

No where in the world are they alowed to be sued like they are here. They have to charge ever increasing prices to cover to cover costs (insurance, etc.), they are also some of the best in the world. FYI the world comes to America for health care for a reason.....

Multinational corporations are fleeing the United States due to health care costs, taking jobs and economic productivity with them.

Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that they can pay people like crap elsewhere and get child labor too. Oh, and don't forget the sweat shops over there.. Couldn't have anything to do with that, or the extremely low taxes that are offered as an incentive to jump ship and go over there, or the laws against labor unions in such countries. It couldn't have anything to do with companies in America beeing sucked dry by unions such as the UAW...

Everyone should see Michael Moore's SiCKO documentary. It really puts it in perspective.

Documentary!

Do you even know what constitutes a documentary? Impartiality is the first thing needed. Moore doesn't have an ounce of that in his body.... He does "opinion based" propoganda films. Not to say that he doesn't get a few things right, but even a broken watch is right twice a day........





[edit on 22-7-2009 by lazy1981]

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
Also go to a Cuban Pharmacy and compare drug prices with the US. You'll be outraged that we are being so taken advantage of. There is no other place on Earth were doctors are paid so much.
[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

And the average income in Cuba is what? And what are your chances for prosperity in Cuba?

Would you say there is more or less opportunity in the U.S. to make money than in Cuba (legally)?

Does Cuba possess the medical technology and knowledge in just about every small to midsize town the way the U.S. does? And is that kind of technology and knowledge cheap?

Thank you. That's why our costs are higher.

Cuba happens to have some of the finest medical care in the world. Many travel there for treatment. Also Cuba has more doctors per capita than any other country.

But that doesn't answer any of my questions, does it? At no time did I ever say Cuban doctors were dumb or uneducated. But in the U.S. we have access to technologies that they don't.

So my other questions stand. Where is the common citizen more likely to be prosperous and able to obtain a job with health care benefits - the U.S. or Cuba? And with those types of jobs, how can Americans complain about the out of pocket costs of medicines that are needed when they shell out as much or more per month for cigarettes and alcohol?


[edit on 22-7-2009 by sos37]

Why is any of the American stuff so expensive? Its nothing really radical friend its just the nature if the business. We have come to expect a 500,000% markup on our presrciption drugs. We expect even basic care to cost more than a new house.

These people are crooks. No were esle is this tolerated like it is in the US.

For just one moment I would like to see you with no Insurance and no money to speak of facing this example.

Example: I'll save your arm for $100,000 or just patch ya up for $25,000 the choice is yours. Have a nice day.


[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Can't wait until we see past peoples words and writing. You are the controller of your and our fate, friends, no one else. Do not let words and writing bring you down. Those who know, know exactly what I mean.

reply to post by lazy1981


Hospitals provide stabilizing care, and a referral to a specialist who will not perform the procedure without cash or coverage. Your mistaken friend. If your bleeding out they will take care of you, but there are millions of things that they will just send you packing with. US medical care is some of the worst in the world for this reason.

Every person on this thread who wants Obamacare is going to be the first in the choir to start singing when they have to wait in line, when their parents, grandparents have to die because they are past the productivity/age ratio curve.
The first time you are denied or told there is a wait, well let me remind you socialist wanna-bes of a little poem. . .

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

For those of you who might get distracted by shiny objects and can't interpret, let me change a few of the words. . .

First they denied to repair her broken leg,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I didn't have a broken leg.
Then they denied a chemo patient,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a chemo patient.
Then they let the elderly die,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was young.
Then they denied care for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

Bastardized by Mike Russell

original by
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

So far CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf seems to be his biggest obstacle. This is the guy who keeps saying that the plan is too costly.

However, Obama might soon have him under control.

I was invited to the White House to meet with the President, his key budget and health advisers, and some outside experts. The President asked me and the outside experts for our views about achieving cost savings in health reform. I presented CBO’s assessment of the challenges of reducing federal health outlays and improving the long-term budget outlook while simultaneously expanding health insurance coverage–just as we had explained these challenges in a letter to Senator Conrad and Senator Gregg last month.

cboblog.cbo.gov...

Pretty interesting how he was invited to the White House to share his expertise over the subject after the bill had been written up rather than before?

I got a feeling this guy will reanalyze the cost of the bill to Obama's liking? Anyone else feel the same.

Came across this also from Pelosi.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released estimates this evening confirming for the first time that H.R. 3200, America’s Affordable Health Choices Act, is deficit neutral over the 10-year budget window – and even produces a $6 billion surplus..

www.house.gov...

6 Billion dollars Surplus..WOW.. Could this report have been around the time the CBO director got his invitation to the White House?

Now from the CBO about HR 3200

According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.

By the end of the 10-year period, in 2019, the coverage provisions would add $202 billion to the federal deficit, CBO and JCT estimate. That increase would be partially offset by net cost savings of $50 billion and additional revenues of $86 billion, resulting in a net increase in the deficit of an estimated $65 billion.

The figures released yesterday do not represent a complete cost estimate for the legislation. In particular, the estimated impact of the provisions related to health insurance coverage is based on specifications provided by the committee staff, rather than on a detailed analysis of the legislative language.

cboblog.cbo.gov...

Both have dates of July 18th so I assume the are talking about the same figures. They seem contradict if you ask me, but maybe there is more info I am missing.

I have asked before and will ask again...How people will this trillion actually cover? Because beyond those that it cover everybody else will still be paying their own and chipping in to pay for those that this plan covers.

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by whatukno

 

This is, hands-down, the best country in the world to live in.

Have you actually lived in any other country other than USA to make that comment. I would have to hugely disagree with that statement. I have lived in the US, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Bermuda, and Taiwan. I would put USA just ahead of Taiwan. Best country in the world hands down???? You my friend need to travel a bit more. The USA could be in the top 5 maybe, but would definitely require some work.

What makes the USA the best country in the world hands down? I am curious for your reasoning.. Go live in Germany for a year and tell me what you think. If I was a member of the EU I would move there permanently in a flash..

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
Do you have any idea how most of the world looks at this? Medical care should be a god given right.

I watched once as a guy in Canada was told about a man in Florida who lost a couple fingers and was told they could save both for $60,000 one for $30,000 or just bandage and clean up for $2,500.

The Canadian freaked out and whole heartedly thought someone should be locked up over the ordeal. It is petty and cruel not to provide care for those who cannot afford it.

Also go to a Cuban Pharmacy and compare drug prices with the US. You'll be outraged that we are being so taken advantage of. There is no other place on Earth were doctors are paid so much.

America's disastrous health care system is heaving the country head-first into near-certain economic collapse. Just about everybody's either financially strained or going broke due to spiraling health care costs: the people, the employers, state governments and even the federal government. Multinational corporations are fleeing the United States due to health care costs, taking jobs and economic productivity with them. Meanwhile, 50 percent of personal bankruptcies in the U.S. are due to medical expenses.

But not everybody's doing badly. The drug companies, surgeons, medical specialists, health insurance companies and private hospitals are making out like bandits, raking in multi-million dollar CEO salaries and -- I'm not making this up -- greater than 500,000% markups on prescription drugs.

Get a clue folks the doctors and big pharma are robbing us blind.

Everyone should see Michael Moore's SiCKO documentary. It really puts it in perspective.



[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Michael Moore is nothing but a hack and a sell out. You can believe about 30% of what this guy says and that is being generous. Whatever you do, do not take what that man says as gospel or truth. Research the stuff he quotes in his fiction work called sicko. The fact this guy won an academy award for best documentary is "Sicko" considering he has never made a true documentary on anything. He simply takes a one-sided opinion (his opinion) and that is the entire film. That by the academy awards definition of a documentary is NOT a documentary. A documentary is supposed to provide both sides of an argument and let you the viewer reach their own opinion.. NO , not with old Mike. hid opinion is the only one. I think he made alot of good points in Sicko, but overqall it was another garbage Michael Moore produced mockumentary..

I like how everyone is for or against this but no one raises the dirty question that truly is going to make or break this: How in the hell do we pay for it? We are already in debt way past our eyeballs nationally. The budget deficit is slated at 1 trillion this year. There is no money to pay for health care, the war etc.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by antonia]

I agree with one of the other posters,Obama just has to sell this to the american people,presidents have no say in such large policies.If mccain had won it would be him trying to sell it(he obviously wasn't going to win though) some poll fixing would make sure of that if it got too close...Since most americans don't want this i say you should make yourselves heard big time! I think your attempts will be futile though in all honesty...its going to go through like a hot knife through butter imo.

I don't know all the rules here, but would I get in trouble for posting a new thread dispelling all the lies on this one?

I've gone thru about 8 bullets on the OP, and I found that whomever came to these conclusions is either trying to intentionally mislead or has a serious reading comprehension problem.

Can someone U2U me and let me know if that is okay to do on this site? Cause this post really made me angry.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
Every person on this thread who wants Obamacare is going to be the first in the choir to start singing when they have to wait in line, when their parents, grandparents have to die because they are past the productivity/age ratio curve.
The first time you are denied or told there is a wait, well let me remind you socialist wanna-bes of a little poem. . .

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

You just have not gotten sick yet! Your provider will drop you like a stone at the first sign of major trouble. They will research every aspect of your past life to determine if you have ever lied to them. If so your screwed. American medical care is some of the worst in the world.

Why would anyone bite so hardily into these crooks lines? No were on Earth does medical care cost so damn much, and its sub standard to boot, unless you have good coverage that is.

Jesus, I really wish it was easier to move the hell out of this country.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by its bologna


I think you would be allowed.. but im no mod so take with a pinch of salt,call it debunking the myths surrounding Obamas health care plan etc I think that's allowed.

reply to post by nepafogo


Yeah, that's what the insurance companies want you to believe. I urge u to watch this video on PBS. The insurance companies did everything they could do to make Michael Moore look like a hack.
On health care, he was right on.

www.pbs.org...

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Johnny, I didn't make this up. We've had three days of Canadians interviewed that gave perfect examples of what I posted. Here's some other information. Even your own representatives come here rather than use your system!
Zindo

Zindo, I apprecaite your well reasoned comments even as I disagree with them. Further to the discussion, I will submit the following comments from the letters to the editor of today's Toronto Star:

In praise of our medical system
... The fact that I am alive today is a testament to the prompt, effective, excellent treatment I received under the Canadian health care system.
--------------------
I am appalled at the lies perpetrated by Canadians about our health care in order to gain notoriety on right-wing TV channels in the U.S. where they are manipulated into being part of the anti-health-care propaganda.

...When I first saw the ad Shona Holmes made, I thought, here we go, U.S. factions politicizing their stances on health care. We are a great target for the anti-universal-heath-care contingent because we have something that many countries do not have – and something that works.

I am part of a family that has had seven life-threatening illnesses that were dealt with swiftly and with world-class efficiency thanks to the health care system available to all Canadians.

Aside from what looks like the "me" stance of Ms. Holmes, we are all sickened by the hypocrisy of her selling out, probably for monetary gain, while no doubt expecting our system, which she is vilifying, to pay for her bills.

Ms Holmes, please do us all a favour, and move to the United States.www.thestar.com...

And from the funny pages, an American comic:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a3d57d4767e0.gif[/atsimg]
...with all appropriate consideration for this copyrighted work.

Sometimes the simplest things tell the whole story. I just wish y'all the best...health care included.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

Let me try and give a little insight to Canadian healthcare. Sure , some like to call it "free" healthcare. However, the amount of taxes that the average joe pays in Canada compared to most other countries is outgrageous. I pay about 45% of my salary to taxes. so how free is it really?

The wait times at any ER are horendous and the reason why is simply because it is "free". My wife is a nurse in ER and 75% of the people who come through ER are NOT emergencies. OOOH , my baby has a cough and a runny nose, OOOH I cut my finger, OOOOH I sprained my ankle. That is the problem you will face in the US if this "healthcare for all" bill is passed. Your hospitals will be overwhelmed.

The problem we have in Canada is that immigrating here is like winning a damn lottery. You pay no tax for x amount of time. the gov't will deliver food to your house to make your adjustment easier, preferntial jobs because of the minority card. As many seniors have concluded here, you are better off immigrating here than working your entire life and paying taxes.

ahh , now Im just ranting.. Folks it is just as messed up here in the North as it is in the South. You have your Obama show and we have the Nazi called Stephen Harper. I watch very closely what is happening south of the border because as we in Canada all know the wind blows from South to North. And really dont they all just work for the same damn group of people anyways (Bilderberg).