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don't mean to sound mean, but your knowledge of history is patchy at best, sorry.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I have a reversed engineered theory that I put forth with that disclaimer of being "a stretch and difficult for people to believe".
It might be historically innacurate or completely innacurate but have you truly considered that the information you are taking from your books are also innacurate, or do you really believe what CNN had to write about why the Shah's regime fell in Iran?
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
(1.) Biblical history (which you heavily rely on) is not real history.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler(2.) History is rewritten so many times by various victors and conquerers no one's knowledge of history can be anything but 'text' book correct, but there is no gaurantee that the 'texts' themselves are correct.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerI appreciate your passion for 'Biblical' history, which I do not put any stock at all in for the simple reason that it's all evidently purely manufactured.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerI appreciate your passion for 'text' book history which I too very much enjoy but put no more faith in that 'Biblical' history as being entirely accurate.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerI personally know people who can't get the version of what they did 5 minutes ago right! If you read the Opening Post's article by CNN's writer they certainly did not reflect accurately what caused the ouster of the Shah to leave Iran and that was 30 years ago.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerIn fact most of the history books regarding World War I and II are chaulked full of so many omissions and fabrications as to make most 'text' book history little more than an historical time line of 'major' events, that are not rendered in 'accurate' but 'political' detail.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerWhile today's society has been taught to be 'politically' correct as a substitute for 'common' sense, which has become quite 'uncommon' as a result, do keep in mind that being 'politically' correct, is not the same thing as being truly correct regardless of how many stars the teacher gives you on your forehead!
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerI have a reversed engineered theory that I put forth with that disclaimer of being "a stretch and difficult for people to believe".
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerIt might be historically innacurate or completely innacurate but have you truly considered that the information you are taking from your books are also innacurate, or do you really believe what CNN had to write about why the Shah's regime fell in Iran?
Think about it.
Originally posted by mmiichael
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I have a reversed engineered theory that I put forth with that disclaimer of being "a stretch and difficult for people to believe".
It might be historically innacurate or completely innacurate but have you truly considered that the information you are taking from your books are also innacurate, or do you really believe what CNN had to write about why the Shah's regime fell in Iran?
PT, (Over morning coffee)
Oh I sure do realize that there is a danger no matter how you slice the pie of history.
As I am often fond of telling people "I really don't know" some days what to believe. Like a lot of people I find it easier just to determine what "I don't believe", which of course if you "don't believe" something someone else takes literally as the 'gospel' of a situation, then at the least you have an argument on your hands and at the most your going to be branded something that usually carries some imagined ugly connotation through that inference.
Of course if by some strange chance I could figure everythign out, which I think we all would really like to do in some manner or form, I am not really in a position to do anything with the answers other that to say I got them.
It's all an exercise of curiousity born out of boredom and the tedium of anotherwise dull life to wisle away the time.
The patriarchal mindset of the Persians is a very deep and ingrained one.
There was a Persian Rug store next to one of the Travel Agencies I once managed and the 30 something 'manager' of the store, that could turn a profit off of 1 sale a month to 30 some shoppers a month, was to say the least an underpaid and very bored man.
His fiancee lived in Tehran and they had been betrothed as youngsters by their parents. He lived with two other Iranian immigrants in a home they shared together and saved as much of his meager paycheck as he could hoping for the day it would all add up to enough to pay for the wedding, to fly her to America, to buy them a home, and for them to start a life together.
In other words at the rate he was earning and saving some time around his 349th birthday (not accounting for inflation) he would have enough money to realize his plans and dreams.
He was pious and all heart and a kind and gentle soul who basically just read the Koran all day long at work when there were no shoppers or social visitors immersing himself in the authoritarian world and word of G-d and taking as much comfort in the existence of that in his mind as he did his Fiancee 10,000 miles away.
His culture had so rigidly disciplined him that he pined not to go to Tehran to see his fiancee but to go to Mecca and Haj. He would spend a 3rd of his conversations on a personal level talking about getting married one day and 2/3rds about how important it was for him to go to Haj one day.
At his rate of earnings and savings he could have afforded Haj by the time he was 149!
So when Luftansa gave me a couple free override tickets for exceeding sales volume quotas good to travel anywhere I gave him one to go to Haj.
The man who owned the store and a chain of others around the world was a bit surprised to say the least by my act of charity and felt compelled to question me as to why I was so motivated.
When I told him that it weighed heavily on my heart to see his employee in such solitary circumstances every day in his employ with dreams he longed to carry out but couldn't afford to that I felt it was my duty as a human being to help another where I reasonably could.
It so shamed him he gave his employee the spending money for the trip to go along with the airline ticket and wasted no time introducing me to his own pantheon of influential Persian friends who almost all turned out to be SAVAK.
I truly think the piety and chastity that so many young Persians go through as an absolute matter of course leaves them vulnerable to authoritarian figures in what is essentially a class oriented society where the vast majority have no real status and those that do pardon the pun have little class or empathy for those below them in the food chain.
The lower class minions seem to have so little and expect so little to come there way anytime soon or at all, what they seem to live for is simple absolution from authority figures government, religious and spiritual.
That's what I noticed the most about their society.
Hows the coffee?
You realize the pitfall in just blanket statement claiming sources can be inaccurate. Whose to say the ones you use are right, but those of others are not.
Your Vatican/Hebrew thesis is a fascinating thesis. It would be fun to go over it all elsewhere.
Refocusing on Iran, what is interesting using the telescope of history, is that the country for the first time in two and a half milennia, does not have a traditional monarchy.
It's flirtation with benign democracy in the early 50s was fleeting. So they went directly from the Shah to a Supreme Leader without blinking. One could almost claim Iranians invite paternalism.
Maybe a mindset problem throughout the region. The willful assertion of power is respected. Conforming to the wants of the masses is considered weak.
We prefer a system that we think represents our needs and opinions. In other cultures people want to be told what is best for them. We see this in the male/female aspect of the Muslim World. We try tell the women they want complete freedom of choice. They find that an alien concept.
So the idea of a reinstated monarchy might have some appeal emotionally. But if it were done with force not stealth.
Mike
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I truly think the piety and chastity that so many young Persians go through as an absolute matter of course leaves them vulnerable to authoritarian figures in what is essentially a class oriented society where the vast majority have no real status and those that do pardon the pun have little class or empathy for those below them in the food chain.
The lower class minions seem to have so little and expect so little to come there way anytime soon or at all, what they seem to live for is simple absolution from authority figures government, religious and spiritual.
That's what I noticed the most about their society.
Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I don't think the CIA orchestrated the last Iranian Revolution, they had NOTHING to gain by having access to a crititical portion of the Middle Eastern oil fields be cut off, not to mention raising tensions in the Gulf shipping district. They sure didn't have anyting to gainby establishing such as destructive theocracy, it has gotten them nowhere.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Look below the surface and there is a lot more to be seen.
Originally posted by desert
reply to post by secretagent woooman
True. The US military industrial complex was having a field day selling equipment and services to the Shah's govt. An Iranian pilot crash a craft? They would just laugh it off and buy a new one to replace it.
The money came from oil revenue. Americans were pumping high priced fuel, and the $$ were going to heads of state and their "security", i.e. military, so part in bank accounts and part back to American corporations.
Also, back then, Iran was a CIA listening post to gain intelligence on the Soviet Union, our major Cold War foe at the time.
Originally posted by desert
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Hey, PT, I edited my above post to add a quote from you and a response. Made me think.
I guess I'm inclined to see a lot of what happens as luck-response-more luck- response- not too much design at least design that is successful
Erm...I think you're going to have to back this up to the hilt, mate. "Evidently purely manufactured"? How exactly do you think the Arc of the Covenant could possibly have "Hail Caesar!" carved on it?
Thank you, but again, I don't think it is entirely accurate however archeology does corellate with most of what established text-book history tells us.
Again, I agree, but that does not mean that in a thousand years time archeology won't reveal the truth of the matter, regardless of what modern propaganda says.
I did not do history at GCSE level, foolishly I did geography. My passion for history has only really manifested itself in the last few years. But I get what you're saying, however most of the things you have claimed simply could not have happened.
The thing is, most of the people you mention could never have interacted with each other, as they lived in completely different historical periods or you are describing events that are anachronistic.
For example, you are suggesting by "force of arms and doctrine" that the Christian Romans were still expanding their empire - by that time, they weren't, really, they were just trying to hang on to what their pagan ancestors had conquered.
The thing is, history is dominated by archeology now, not simply myths and fairytales that came before.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Ever seen the Arc of the Covenant? Do you know anyone who has? Do you have anything from history that actually dates to the precise period that documents it? r most of the things you have claimed simply could not have happened.
Originally posted by IranRevolutionary
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Ever seen the Arc of the Covenant? Do you know anyone who has? Do you have anything from history that actually dates to the precise period that documents it? r most of the things you have claimed simply could not have happened.
Making an argument is easy when you just make things up. Good strategy.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You mean kind of like pretending to be an Iranian Revolutionary?
.
Originally posted by vox2442
I am willing to bet that people are actively talking about the return of the Shah to replace the theocracy by the end of this week. Political commentators, perhaps the odd politician or two, and a few influencial members of the Iranian expat community. By the end of Friday, June 26th.
So, are you or are you not, a PROTOPLASMIC TRAVELER?????
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
There are some Terms and Conditions for decorum and civility that the site owners are pretty serious about.