Israel papers: new era in US ties

reply to post by maloy


Well see that's just it...

What do they want to do? Help their own people in Palestine establish a prosperous country or just stick it to Israel every chance they get?

I think they should take full advantage of this opportunity and run with it.

It means nothing unless Obama restricts arms sales to Israel.

If we stop shipping them weapons, you can take THAT as a sign.

Otherwise, he's just trying to make everyone his friend.

He has a lot to learn about international politics. This isn't the school playground, or even the floor of the senate.

Instead of having 2 sets of friends, he'll end up with none.

Remember the Roman Empire, the state of Judea behaved in ways which annoyed the Romans but didn't do them any harm. At the point that they were becoming a nuisance, the Romans turned against them, destroyed their temple, wiped them out and told them 'an empire has bigger concerns than you'. This is what Israel faces in the next 25 years.

The risk that the American empire will say wait a minute, you don't matter so much to us, either because we need oil more than we need you or because oil is no longer important - doesn't matter both has the same effect. You are more trouble than you are worth and the issue of the Holocaust and anti-Antisemitism is declining with demographic move to the next generation. This is a catastrophe for Israel, because Israel has no other friends in the world.

This quote continues to make sense.

Source:

Originally posted by Retseh


He has a lot to learn about international politics. This isn't the school playground, or even the floor of the senate.

Instead of having 2 sets of friends, he'll end up with none.

He is at least trying to discuss the issues in a fair manner. No matter which side of the argument you are on at least they cant say the man doesn't know how to speak English.

People fear the unknown.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
What do they want to do? Help their own people in Palestine establish a prosperous country or just stick it to Israel every chance they get?

Judging by their recent actions - both really. Hezbolah is more oriented at military confrontation with Israel, while Hamas actually has some civil and social innitiatives. But just as Israel gets some instructions and approvals from the US, Hamas and Hezbolah are at least partly subject to outside control by countries like Iran (Hezbolah) and Egypt (Hamas). At this point there is no guessing at what their plans are. But there is certainly going to be an alteration in everyone's strategy after this trip by Obama.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I think they should take full advantage of this opportunity and run with it.

If you mean that they should try to peacefully establish their own state - without Israel's cooperation they will get nowhere, even with Obama's support. If you mean attack against Israel - Israel could turn around and use it against them to prove to the US that they don't want peace.

reply to post by maloy


Well see that's just the point...

Everybody is so sure that the issues are too large so why even try. "We have been down this road hundreds of times" I say Yadda Yadda Blah blah blah.

Try again and keep trying. If our Ally gets their nose bent out of shape so be it. In the long run they'll be better off.

Originally posted by Retseh
It means nothing unless Obama restricts arms sales to Israel.

He might not have complete power to do that. I don't know well enough how the US executive/legislative politics work since I am not from the US, but wouldn't he need Congress approval? Don't underestimate the power of pro-Israel lobby as well as the defense industry lobby (which will no doubt oppose such restriction).

Also such restriction won't solve much. Israel manufactures much of their own arms and has extensive arms trade with Europe and India. It could also turn to Russia for defense purchases.

Originally posted by Retseh
It means nothing unless Obama restricts arms sales to Israel.

I agree

Originally posted by Retseh
Otherwise, he's just trying to make everyone his friend.

He has a lot to learn about international politics. This isn't the school playground, or even the floor of the senate.

It's too early to make that judgement
We don't know what is next or what is to come

also being balanced doesn't mean your trying to make everyone your friend

reply to post by maloy


The President has to offer it and the Congress has to approve it. Also if Congress pushes too hard the President can veto it.

Checks and Balance.

I think Israel is having trouble adapting to the new ball game. The new game, which is responsible for people having the perception that Obama is weak is that you have to give a little. The new game is not a game of this is how things are going to be done, it's a game of here is what we want and here is what you want, lets go from there. We can talk about an issue and if we don't agree then there are other methods working things out...

It's reasonable and it makes the statement that all options are on the table true.

Well it seems that there's finally an american president actually serious about mideast peace as opposed to lip service and the old status quo.

Well it seems that there's finally an american president actually serious about mideast peace as opposed to lip service and the old status quo.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I recall that Obama administration recently blocked a sale of AH-64 Apache attack helicopters to Israel. I am not sure about the specifics, but it demonstrates that Obama has already shown willingness to go that far to pressure Israel. I wonder if Congress was involved in that decision, or if Obama has alternative means to block individual sale contracts.

Anyway I don't see it having much impact on Israel. Israel can get arms elsewhere or manufacture them itself. Now if Obama puts an end to multi billion dollar monetary assistance that US gives to Israel every year, it could actually yield something.

Think its smoke and mirrors, personally. Obama says one thing and the country does another.

One hand obama says no war with islam, while the other hand is killing and torturing people of Islamic faith that america radicalized, in the first place.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Very well said. I agree with you. Israel has been taking lott of undue advantage from US from a long time now, it is now time Israel should behave responsibily.

reply to post by maloy


Keep in mind though that in the US, Israel has other ties that are very strong. Not just Jews but also Christian fundamentalist. They are the scariest group of supporters IMO.

Hoping for the "Rapture"

First of all, is it anyones problems but there own? if Israelis and the Palestinians don't get along, how and why does that effect the USA or any other country?

why does the USA seriously think they have to be in the middle of everything, and impose there way, and how it should be?

did we all forget that the USA was founded after other countries?

and second, there is a method to the madness, Obama doesn't run anything, it's the Bilderbergs/CFR/TC/ NWO agenda, this is all part of there plan, whatever it may be at the moment.

Anyone else thinking that Obama better not go anywhere near grassy knolls in Dallas any time soon?

I find it hard to believe that President Obama is venturing off the beaten path in terms of our cooperation with Israel. One would ascertain that Obama would be walking lock-step with his predecessors with how they handled Israel and the Palestinians. His pitbull at the door(Chief of Staff) comes from a Zionist family. His demeanor behind the podium in Cairo was very strange indeed.

What is going on behind the scenes? What does Rahm Emanuel think of all this?
Any speculation would be great. Thanks

Why no mention of Hamas by Obama

Untill Hamas recognises Israel and removes its destruction from their charter how can there ever be lasting peace
This issue along with the settlements has to be addressed.