Losing an illusion or gaining a truth?

As you all know, I enjoy philosophy very much and I am always speculating just exactly what makes the universe work and why.

Lately I have been thinking of False hoods and truths. I have been thinking about the times in my life I have found little tib bits of truth and I have also been thinking about the times in which I was able to open my mind and see past certain falsehoods.

After a while I started thinking about which comes with more wisdom Losing an illusion/falsehood or gaining a truth?

I am thinking right now that there is more "wisdom" in losing an illusion because doing so allows to you also recognize the truths that were hiding behind the illusion.

So I am wondering what you all think? Which is better. losing a falsehood or gaining a truth?

Do you think my reasoning for my choosing "losing an illusion" is sound?

For that matter, how do each of you go about finding truths or losing illusions? Think back to a time when you have discovered a truth or saw through an illusion? How did you go about doing so?

Did it open a whole new box of possibilities for you? Did it just make things more confusing?

Losing an illusion VS gaining a truth, what do you all think?

Now to steal a line from Dave rabbit, "Please star and flag this motha"



[edit on 14-5-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

I agree with the conclusion that you have come to.

If you lose an illusion, there is the possibility of finding an endless amount of truth and possibly even casting away more illusions with that knowledge gained. It could in fact be an endless cycle of 'uncovering'.

With gaining truth, there is only that knowledge.. without the possibility of more to come.

In sort, yes.. I agree.

Thank you for posting this. It gives me something to think about further.

Also thought about this..

If you lose an illusion, are you really gaining a solid truth, or merely complicating your mind with trying to find a truth behind a falsehood.

Does uncovering an illusion always mean gaining true knowledge?

Pray tell, you realize something is BS after once your mind flushes that idea/thought/belief etc down the toilet for whatever reason/experience.

Now what?

You have yet another idea/thought/belief to be scrambled through your mind. Will that one be flushed down the toilet too? Then on to another mode of thinking?

Vicious circle yes, but that is what life experience is all about, yes?

Originally posted by blind.face


Thank you for posting this. It gives me something to think about further.

Very good. You are quite welcome. I enjoy giving people something to think about. The ability to think is what makes humans so special. Well it is one of the many but it is a big one, so why not use that tool huh?

Now I wonder, is finding all the false hoods the key to finding the truth? I imagine it is, because behind every false hoold is where the truth is hiding.

SO how does one go about finding all the false hoods that many of us have been embedded with our whole lives? How do we go about figuring out what is the lie and what is the truth?

Is it more of a matter of time or is there a special effort we have to make? I mean, there was a time when it was "fact" that the world was flat, but now we know better after several hundred years. We are able to prove scientifically that the earth is round...

So how do we do it and what is so special about some people who just seem to be privy to the truth? Plato, Socrates and even religios figures like the buddha? Are they just more in touch with the universe than most or is anybody just as capable as they are when it comes to philosophy?



[edit on 14-5-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

Originally posted by wclv13
Pray tell, you realize something is BS after once your mind flushes that idea/thought/belief etc down the toilet for whatever reason/experience.

Now what?

You have yet another idea/thought/belief to be scrambled through your mind. Will that one be flushed down the toilet too? Then on to another mode of thinking?

Vicious circle yes, but that is what life experience is all about, yes?

I am not quite sure I follow. Are you saying that ultimatly it is all about forgetting the truth then remembering it all over again?

Being brave is what makes it all happen for the masses. The mention that the Earth was NOT the center of the Universe made for some pee'd off folks and the evidence was not even released immediately.

Anyhoo, just walk to the beat of your own drum, you KNOW what is BS and what is at least "a possibility worth investigation" then come to your own conclusion, and forget what the rest says.

Unless you want to be a martyr sp? and go down in history by trying to prove to the rest what you found.

Myself, I enjoy eating popcorn and watching the fools react to it all as the mysteries unfold

Its a question of perception and in which angle you look at it. There is no fixed truth, but the illusion of right and wrong, true and false etc.
So when you say you have found truth, you just found another illusion, as someone else already stated, its an endless cycle of "uncovering".
At the end it comes down to the actual observer, you, and what you make of the illusion.

Anything can be true, you decide, but in order to progress one has to question truths, and like most of the time, the more you question a "truth" the more it becomes false.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Clairaudience]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Oh no, meant that with each falsehood discovered, hence comes a truth. With each truth, comes a chance to realize it to, is false. Its all in your perception and your learning path.

If I'm understanding you right (and there's a good chance I'm not) then they're one and the same. Every illusion thrown off reveals a nugget of truth; every nugget of truth holds (in itself or in conjunction with other nuggets) the key to throwing off an illusion.

Recently Ive started experimenting with seeing it this way:

Truth is always and forever self-evident, obvious, ever-present, right in front of ones nose. So not only learning, gaining, arriving-at stuff is a valid way of finding truth but also de-learning, removing, disullusionment is a valid way to see the truth that is actually already there, already obvious.

reply to post by wclv13


AH, I see what you are saying.

But do you really think that YOU know all the answers? I know mabye a few but I certainly do not know them all.

There is a phrase I am reminded of, "Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who have found it"

I have found that phrase usually rings true too. Most people who claim to know all the answers usually do not.

Although I have heard a belief that the truth is embedded in us and it is more a matter of remembering the truth rather than learning it.

Does that better fit what you are trying to say mabye?

Originally posted by wclv13
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Oh no, meant that with each falsehood discovered, hence comes a truth. With each truth, comes a chance to realize it to, is false. Its all in your perception and your learning path.

Ok I follow now.

Thanks for the clarification.

Now that I think about it.. there is no 'actual truth'.. only an established consensus that has been formed and called the truth.

Why is 2+2=4? Because we were taught that? Is 2+2 really 4, or is it the consensus of the masses that accept the answer? We say, therefore it is..

Truth is definition, and definition is created. Now I really have myself confused.

Originally posted by Rivyolie
If I'm understanding you right (and there's a good chance I'm not) then they're one and the same. Every illusion thrown off reveals a nugget of truth; every nugget of truth holds (in itself or in conjunction with other nuggets) the key to throwing off an illusion.

Yes I can see where you are getting at here too. I almost put in my OP that possibility of them mabye being equal with one another.

I figured some one would bring that up and you did!

You are understanding me just fine my friend.

Originally posted by blind.face
Now that I think about it.. there is no 'actual truth'.. only an established consensus that has been formed and called the truth.

Why is 2+2=4? Because we were taught that? Is 2+2 really 4, or is it the consensus of the masses that accept the answer? We say, therefore it is..

Truth is definition, and definition is created. Now I really have myself confused.

I see what you are getting at but I think perhaps your confusion lies in the difference between facts and truths.

There was something I said in a threa once that may help clear up your confusion.

" Years ago it was fact that the earth was flat,and that it was the center of the universe. Now we know better though. Facts change, the truth stays the same."

You see even though it was considered fact that the earth was flat and the center of the universe, the truth was always that the earth is round and no where near the center of the universe.

Does that make sense?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Don't have a clue what is the truth, but, have uncovered some lies.

I love the xfiles theme "the truth is out there" but not even sure that is what I should be seeking.

The truth is in here, myself, and I will continue to seek it. Sorting thru and discarding the lies first is the path I am on.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Recently Ive started experimenting with seeing it this way:

Truth is always and forever self-evident, obvious, ever-present, right in front of ones nose. So not only learning, gaining, arriving-at stuff is a valid way of finding truth but also de-learning, removing, disullusionment is a valid way to see the truth that is actually already there, already obvious.

Ok that makes sense and for what ever reason that did not quite cross my mind in that way. They are both in a sense just to different ways of reaching the same goal, which is truth.

Losing the illusions uncovers all the mess which in the end reveals the truth. Finding the truth I believe invloves searching through the illusions as well.

So perhaps losing an illusion truly is the same as finding a truth in the sense that either way leads you to truth.

Your post has helped me understand even better, what rivyolie was saying.

Originally posted by wclv13
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Don't have a clue what is the truth, but, have uncovered some lies.

I love the xfiles theme "the truth is out there" but not even sure that is what I should be seeking.

The truth is in here, myself, and I will continue to seek it. Sorting thru and discarding the lies first is the path I am on.

I like the phrase "the truth is out there" too, however I find your phrase " the truth is in here" to be more accurate, because I believe the truth lies within us all, somewhere, some how....

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Yes but meanwhile I slightly prefer the "loosing an illusion" way of going about it...after spending decades thinking I have to learn, gain, learn, gain, etc. You seem to be coming into a similar mood.