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The Growing Discontent
page: 4share:
Let's play the numbers game here. If it is true that there is a substantial proportion of the population who is disillusioned with the current
system then surely you can vote to change it. I'll refer to this group as the Tea Party (why not?). So if the Tea Party is a minority what gives them
the right to dictate to the majority. The answer is none. No minority has the right to overrule a majority. Irrespective of which side you are on
...tough. However if the Tea Party is a majority then it must have at least 51% of the voters in support. So a rough guess (not knowing the
demographics of the US population) would be around 100 million voters. If each voter donated $10 to the tea Party they would have a 1Billion dollar
chest to fight elections. That is more than enough to run a campaign. However, you don't really need anywhere near that amount since 51% would vote
for the tea Party candidiate even there was no publicity whatsoever.
So the numbers don't add up. A majority wanting change can implement change democratically with a minimal amount of money. I'm not sure what it costs to post a candidate but whatever it is add it up for just over half of the state votes (remember you only need to post candidates in the most likely areas to return a presidential majority!!). Can a US person do the math and work out how much it would actually cost per Tea Party supporter?
Once that is done then stop moaning and organise a democratic change. You have 4 years which should be plenty of time.
This reminds me of many new populaist parties in UK politics. They have all withered and died since there is a huge difference between a vocal noisy minority and voting majority.
So the numbers don't add up. A majority wanting change can implement change democratically with a minimal amount of money. I'm not sure what it costs to post a candidate but whatever it is add it up for just over half of the state votes (remember you only need to post candidates in the most likely areas to return a presidential majority!!). Can a US person do the math and work out how much it would actually cost per Tea Party supporter?
Once that is done then stop moaning and organise a democratic change. You have 4 years which should be plenty of time.
This reminds me of many new populaist parties in UK politics. They have all withered and died since there is a huge difference between a vocal noisy minority and voting majority.
reply to post by SGTChas
Respectfully, this could have been a much more interesting and informative thread. Reading the posts I would say some people listing comments think that its the 1700's and they are sitting at the Continental Congress.... that or Role Playing.
This is not a thread of 'who best resembles the speech mannerisms of the founding fathers' is it? You make it hard to take what your saying serious when you all try to one-up each other with words that no one uses on a regular basis. You want to make a connection with people and get your words out, to pull people to your cause - stop show-boating and use common every-day language.
Yes - there is a growing tension, I think anyone with the ability to critically analyze what's going on in this country and around the world can sense it. Lets start exchanging credible ideas, establishing effectual and productive local groups to meet with and bring about a national movement with the building momentum for real substantial change. A real change not some well marketed campaign slogan.
Establish a website for like minded people to list/arrange local meetings in their respective areas to discuss issues and share information. As well as planning events and things such as City Council presentations and the like. Stop trying to out-talk one another and someone take initiative and perhaps we can get some strength behind the Independent Party or local community groups - anything - the people that are all talk seem to lack conviction. Not to rant on about this, but the majority of posts here are nothing but fantasy. "The sky is falling, look everyone is buying all the bullets and the fluoride in the water is making us zombies. Soon 'they' will attack, protect yourselves and your families, don't worry about the army, they wont attack on the American Citizens." That, in a nut shell, is all this post is. Fear mongering, and bloviating, it's fantasy.
All I am saying is - We can all see it, we can all feel it and we all agree. But what now? So what? With all this information and compiled facts what do you propose we do? - Continue surfing the Internet? Keep posting on blogs and message boards? This will accomplish nothing. While you all consider what your next post will be - what have you done to effect any real change?
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Mr.Hyde]
Respectfully, this could have been a much more interesting and informative thread. Reading the posts I would say some people listing comments think that its the 1700's and they are sitting at the Continental Congress.... that or Role Playing.
This is not a thread of 'who best resembles the speech mannerisms of the founding fathers' is it? You make it hard to take what your saying serious when you all try to one-up each other with words that no one uses on a regular basis. You want to make a connection with people and get your words out, to pull people to your cause - stop show-boating and use common every-day language.
Yes - there is a growing tension, I think anyone with the ability to critically analyze what's going on in this country and around the world can sense it. Lets start exchanging credible ideas, establishing effectual and productive local groups to meet with and bring about a national movement with the building momentum for real substantial change. A real change not some well marketed campaign slogan.
Establish a website for like minded people to list/arrange local meetings in their respective areas to discuss issues and share information. As well as planning events and things such as City Council presentations and the like. Stop trying to out-talk one another and someone take initiative and perhaps we can get some strength behind the Independent Party or local community groups - anything - the people that are all talk seem to lack conviction. Not to rant on about this, but the majority of posts here are nothing but fantasy. "The sky is falling, look everyone is buying all the bullets and the fluoride in the water is making us zombies. Soon 'they' will attack, protect yourselves and your families, don't worry about the army, they wont attack on the American Citizens." That, in a nut shell, is all this post is. Fear mongering, and bloviating, it's fantasy.
All I am saying is - We can all see it, we can all feel it and we all agree. But what now? So what? With all this information and compiled facts what do you propose we do? - Continue surfing the Internet? Keep posting on blogs and message boards? This will accomplish nothing. While you all consider what your next post will be - what have you done to effect any real change?
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Mr.Hyde]
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
I'd like to say here that I remember a time that I felt proud to be an American. I felt that I was in the most amazingly balanced country on the planet, with the best government, OF, BY, and FOR the People. I was sadly mistaken when I realized that that was anything but true.
When I realized how our government was sold out to Big Business and private investors, I felt all of the queasiness of our Founding Fathers rising up in my stomach, and immediately wanted to go grab my musket in protest. Obviously, that never happened, as I'm still here. What DID happen, however, was that I underwent an awakening unlike anything that I had been through in my life up to that point.
It became very apparent to me that, after much debate and investigation, there was more to this whole thing than met the eye.
With all of the pieces put together, one has to wonder what the end goal is, and why those at the top want it. To be honest, I think it's because they see a world that has no violence and bloodshed. They see a world where everyone has the opportunity to do whatever they'd like to do.
While this is a lofty goal, and something that everyone should aim for, they seem to subscribe to the old adage, "The ends justify the means." They do not care about what they have to do to get their Utopia, so long as they get it.
With all of this said though, there's one question that merits asking: Is a unified world a bad thing?
Everyone says it is, but no one has offered up any good reasons why it is...
For example, freedom. It's a word that gets a firm support from all patriots. However, wouldn't it be even better if we could somehow include everyone on Earth under the same umbrella as us? That way, they would all have the same rights as us, the same rules would apply, and there would be no need to worry about borders or different currencies. Everyone's equal under the law, and will be held accountable for their actions.
In the grand scheme of things, is this not what "they" are after? I believe it is. Think about it for a minute. If it were this way, there would be no more wars over political differences, as we'd all be debating in open forums, just like we do here in the US in Congress. Everything would be settled on the floors of Congress.
As for population issues, we could all, as a UNIFIED world, focus on colonizing another planet. With the world united, how long does anyone think it would take us, as a species, to make it to Mars, and make a livable habitat?
Now, despite my support of the IDEA of a Unified World Government, I do have my obvious problems with it, and those that are so willing to sacrifice human life for the sake of the goal.
Do I agree with their methods? HELL NO!!! I think the way that we've been bought out is detestable, and should be thoroughly investigated.
Do I think that standing up and fighting for our rights is imperative? HELL YES!! Even though I'm in support of a Unified World Government, I also feel that we shouldn't have to sacrifice our current freedoms for the sake of the end goal. We can achieve the goal with similar laws.
BUT, and this is a big but, we must not fail to recognize the obvious benefits of having a singular goal, a singular purpose if you will, to all look towards for guidance. This could be well fostered under a global governing system, as EVERYONE would be privy to the same rights as you and I have. We all share the same desires, regardless of where we live on this rock. Why be forced to live a certain way, when we can have all we need under one governing body?
Besides, at least with one governing body, it makes locating and removing them easier, does it not??
DISCLAIMER:
I want it known here that I'm of the firm belief that a Unified World Government wouldn't be a bad thing, provided there were several balances of power put in place to counterbalance the power-hungry tyrants that usually take refuge up in public offices.
Also, I feel that, as stated in the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
My friends. My brothers and sisters, my FAMILY, hear me now!! I feel that a change is coming. What that change is is not yet evident. What IS evident though, is that WE THE PEOPLE are fed up with being railroaded by those that WE put in office. It's high time that something is done. What that is will be decided when the time comes.
I only pray that we do so with prudence and patience for the sake of all the world, as the US is no longer a secular state. We are composed of people from EVERY SINGLE nation on Earth. It's just a natural progression to get the rest of the planet under the "wings of freedom" as well.
May God see us through...
TheBorg
Concerned Moderator and Member
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
If all the energy used in coordinating militias and neighborhood groups could be used in forming a new " Constitutional " political party, then we
might be able to forestall the coming debacle. The first tenet of this party's platform should be a " clean sweep " of all incumbents in the next
election. This is the kind of movement I could get behind.
An armed revolution, are you serious???
That is exactly what they want!
This isn't 1776 when everyone had the same weapons. You can not fight a forest fire with a garden hose.
First let me state that although I don't agree with most of the posts I respect your opinion. You're on ATS which means you"re an itelligent human being and AWAKE...
I don't know if the milatary or local law enforcement will back the people or not? I believe the chance to be 50/50 but we really won't know until this happens.
Anger can misdirect your mind into acting compulsive, doing things and acting a way that you otherwise would not do if you had time to think rationally.
Yes. We should not give up our arms(I believe this is what has kept them away so far) like what was done with Katrina.
I believe alerting your neighbors of your concerns and contingency plans with them is not the best idea. Even though they may share your view in person, behind closed doors they may be the one to alert authorities as to your intentions. Put on your poker face if you know what I mean.
I am not a pacifast. There is a time to fight. Lay low and take in your surroundings. Confront when you are confronted. Out of site out of mind if you will.
The best resonse at first is non-compliance in mass. This idea may look more attractive to your neighbors and make them more comfortable with you when things do go down. The word "NO" in large numbers is the most powerful weapon that you have and will not have them on alert to crush a rebellion. I don't believe that will be prepared for that scenario.
My honest belief is that this will not come to be. If it does, we will have outside intervention of another kind if you follow my logic.
I hope everyone has a wonderful week.
Thank you for reading
Xmen4422002
That is exactly what they want!
This isn't 1776 when everyone had the same weapons. You can not fight a forest fire with a garden hose.
First let me state that although I don't agree with most of the posts I respect your opinion. You're on ATS which means you"re an itelligent human being and AWAKE...
I don't know if the milatary or local law enforcement will back the people or not? I believe the chance to be 50/50 but we really won't know until this happens.
Anger can misdirect your mind into acting compulsive, doing things and acting a way that you otherwise would not do if you had time to think rationally.
Yes. We should not give up our arms(I believe this is what has kept them away so far) like what was done with Katrina.
I believe alerting your neighbors of your concerns and contingency plans with them is not the best idea. Even though they may share your view in person, behind closed doors they may be the one to alert authorities as to your intentions. Put on your poker face if you know what I mean.
I am not a pacifast. There is a time to fight. Lay low and take in your surroundings. Confront when you are confronted. Out of site out of mind if you will.
The best resonse at first is non-compliance in mass. This idea may look more attractive to your neighbors and make them more comfortable with you when things do go down. The word "NO" in large numbers is the most powerful weapon that you have and will not have them on alert to crush a rebellion. I don't believe that will be prepared for that scenario.
My honest belief is that this will not come to be. If it does, we will have outside intervention of another kind if you follow my logic.
I hope everyone has a wonderful week.
Thank you for reading
Xmen4422002
Originally posted by boomerdude
If all the energy used in coordinating militias and neighborhood groups could be used in forming a new " Constitutional " political party, then we might be able to forestall the coming debacle. The first tenet of this party's platform should be a " clean sweep " of all incumbents in the next election. This is the kind of movement I could get behind.
Very perceptive, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the folks advocating the taking up of arms are the losers in the last election. Oh sure, they try to appeal to nonpartisanship but they really aren't fooling anyone. Mostly just listeners of Rush, Sean and Savage with their pantys in a bunch. When I see a truly charismatic leader emerge that can "rally the troops" so to speak; then I might pay attention to this "teabag" rant. But for now it is just so much INTERNET masturbation. As disgusted as folks seem to be, I don't see them going out in the woods doing any kind of serious training. A few hardcore survivalist/militia types perhaps, but I would bet that a fair number of their membership is composed of rats.
Personally, I'm not to concerned about a social upheaval. Instead of buying arms and rounds, I think I'd rather spend my hard earned $$$ on a condo on Padre Island, Texas, or perhaps buy a seat at the WSOP.
[edit on 4-5-2009 by whaaa]
Originally posted by whaaa
I have the sneaking suspicion that the folks advocating the taking up of arms are the losers in the last election.
In other words, We, the People of the United States of America. Incidentally, We, the People have been the losers in every election in my lifetime, IMHO.
Personally, I'm not to concerned about a social upheavel. Instead of buying arms and rounds, I think I'd rather spend my hard earned $$$ on a condo on Padre Island, Texas, or perhaps buy a seat at the WSOP.
While I agree that it may seem comforting to bury your proverbial head in the sand, is that really a means to an end? IS there an end in your mind?
I have read your posts, and lend them as much credence as the next, I just think you need to look at your countrymen for the answers. Not all of us are still brainwashed to see the world through rose colored glasses.
We all have our opinions, and I respect yours wholeheartedly, regardless of my level of agreement/disagreement.
Incidentally, it looks as if your "Israel/Iran" theory may be put to the test, per the MSM. Let's see if the Patriot movement is derailed by this latest distraction...
As said many times before in this thread and most prominently by Hal Turner himself - the only thing these 'people' understand is violence.
It is more than overdue for a march on capitol hill. The entire power system of the federal goverment needs to be dissolved, no more central banks either. America did not learn from the past with the failing of the last few central banks.
It's simple isn't it... read the constitution and follow what it says.
Federalist papers number 28 also is very applicable to the current situation, where the representatives of the two party dictatorship have betrayed their constituents multiple times.
Quote from www.foundingfathers.info...
All federalist papers available via link.
Time is up ladies and gents. The time to mobilize militias is nigh. Show those pigs what a real American patriot is made of!
Their games with your money and power causes problems globally, and have directly affected me and almost every other citizen of the western world - that is the significance of the situation. America falling will cause all sorts of global problems to exacerbate - while I sit here in New Zealand there is little I can do to stop something happening in USA. Instead, I can hope that the fine men and women of America will help me instead.
[edit on 4/5/09 by GhostR1der]
It is more than overdue for a march on capitol hill. The entire power system of the federal goverment needs to be dissolved, no more central banks either. America did not learn from the past with the failing of the last few central banks.
It's simple isn't it... read the constitution and follow what it says.
Federalist papers number 28 also is very applicable to the current situation, where the representatives of the two party dictatorship have betrayed their constituents multiple times.
If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.
Quote from www.foundingfathers.info...
All federalist papers available via link.
Time is up ladies and gents. The time to mobilize militias is nigh. Show those pigs what a real American patriot is made of!
Their games with your money and power causes problems globally, and have directly affected me and almost every other citizen of the western world - that is the significance of the situation. America falling will cause all sorts of global problems to exacerbate - while I sit here in New Zealand there is little I can do to stop something happening in USA. Instead, I can hope that the fine men and women of America will help me instead.
[edit on 4/5/09 by GhostR1der]
reply to post by SGTChas
Sitting here looking out my window, I see nothing amiss. It is an illusion.
Lies, lies and more lies. I'm sick to death of liars and thieves and ignorance. That being said, the problem is that no majority will arise to reclaim our country and its Constitution. Scattered factions will rise and fall but no major change will come from those efforts. There are too many divisions and too much ignorance. People gave up personal responsibility (values and morals) in exchange for "convenience and security" over the last forty years.
All I can do is sit here and wait for sthtf and believe that my internal guidance system will see me through. I know how hard it is to survive with nothing and how hard it is to discern truth from lies and how frightening it is to be alone in a world full of predators on the prowl for the weak and frightened.
I lived this long through nothing less than determination and instincts. My person has been violated in every way imaginable and yet I remain decent. I refuse to lie down, Ever!
I may only be one. But I matter. When IT comes, I don't know what I'll do, who I'll trust, where I'll seek refuge or what actions I will take. All I do know is that I survived hell in the first half of my life. Now I know why. It made me stronger, more observant, more cautious and more awake to the realities of this world. And completely dependant on my intuition.
Most of you don't know what its like to live years without electricity, running water and a store down the road. Or how it feels when your last meal was seven days ago. Or how it feels to be small and alone in a big world of predators. Nor do most people know first hand how desperate and evil people become in times of uncertainty. I feel sorry for those people, for when things do go haywire, they will be the ones I fear the most.
My own partner is unconvinced. So, I sit here looking out my window at a scene of peaceful interlude, burning it into my memory for the future.
Sitting here looking out my window, I see nothing amiss. It is an illusion.
Lies, lies and more lies. I'm sick to death of liars and thieves and ignorance. That being said, the problem is that no majority will arise to reclaim our country and its Constitution. Scattered factions will rise and fall but no major change will come from those efforts. There are too many divisions and too much ignorance. People gave up personal responsibility (values and morals) in exchange for "convenience and security" over the last forty years.
All I can do is sit here and wait for sthtf and believe that my internal guidance system will see me through. I know how hard it is to survive with nothing and how hard it is to discern truth from lies and how frightening it is to be alone in a world full of predators on the prowl for the weak and frightened.
I lived this long through nothing less than determination and instincts. My person has been violated in every way imaginable and yet I remain decent. I refuse to lie down, Ever!
I may only be one. But I matter. When IT comes, I don't know what I'll do, who I'll trust, where I'll seek refuge or what actions I will take. All I do know is that I survived hell in the first half of my life. Now I know why. It made me stronger, more observant, more cautious and more awake to the realities of this world. And completely dependant on my intuition.
Most of you don't know what its like to live years without electricity, running water and a store down the road. Or how it feels when your last meal was seven days ago. Or how it feels to be small and alone in a big world of predators. Nor do most people know first hand how desperate and evil people become in times of uncertainty. I feel sorry for those people, for when things do go haywire, they will be the ones I fear the most.
My own partner is unconvinced. So, I sit here looking out my window at a scene of peaceful interlude, burning it into my memory for the future.
All this talk of revolution is foolish. TPTB want you to cause problems so they can take away the last of our rights. Course there is an alternitive
to fighting. If your really serious in changing the way things are going in america, just look up the life of Gandi. He used passive resistence, and
brought the British empire to its knees, and freed his own country. Anyone can pick up a gun and cause mayhem, he had the real power, of the mind &
will.
reply to post by TheBorg
We all know full well what a United World Government means to The Borg. In fact it is your namesake that is the root fear of what a united humanity may become. In this case however, resistance is far from futile.
On the original subject...
The sequences of events unfolding in this country is quite startling. If one looks at history, we can plainly see what is coming.
During the waning days of the Roman Empire, Rome tried unsuccessfully to keep control over a vast empire, splitting itself into two distinct sub empires, the Western Empire and the East. The Eastern Empire was eventually conquered by the Ottomans, and the Western Empire was destroyed by invading hordes of barbarians starting with the Visigoths.
Following that was a period known as the dark ages in Europe.
In our nations birth we fought an empire that also was tyrannical, At first the protests were peaceful, but populist anger grew at the disenfranchisement of the people. Eventually people banded together to thwart the will of the Empirical control over their lives and a resistance was formed. That resistance turned into a revolution. And that revolution birthed one of the most impressive documents in human history.
This document has served this country for over two hundred years protecting it's people from the oppression that naturally comes from a government out of control.
Now we see that document weakening, it's power over this government being ignored. All the while the people suffer silently at the hands of a government run out of control.
Through the last two centuries there have been those that have sought ways around this document, trying to find loopholes to allow tyranny to once again gain a foothold in the people's lives.
With the government in the eighties slashing education, and the continual brainwashing of the public, using time honored tactics such as fear and propaganda, our population willingly gave over rights to our government it was never entitled.
Now the population is angry at the betrayal that was coming all along? The people aghast at what a government with too much power would do? You traded liberty for security and your shocked at the outcome?
History has shown what would happen in this event. Our founding fathers fought and died to ensure a government like the one they defeated would never rule over it's people again and what do we do with their dream? We throw it away at the first strike against us?
9/11 was a turning point in this nations history, what is to become of the memories of those that died needlessly at the hands of those that wish to destroy our way of life? Not only the terrorists, but those in power that long for the defeat of freedom and the return to elitist control and domination.
Again humanity is at a crossroads, between freedom and totalitarianism.
The current government politically has aligned away from what core values that this country has stood for. Our two party system has shifted from benevolent ideologies to ideologies that mimic more closely those of Stalin and Hitler.
The Democratic party has shifted to a more Socialist standpoint, and they do so day by day, the Republican party has also shifted to a more Fascist system as well.
Don't think the PTB don't know what is going to happen, they have taken steps to ensure that people are well afraid, and they also send out as much propaganda as they can in order to postpone the inevitable.
It's a chess match, one that the PTB have carefully played. Will it be too late once they start their endgame gambit? Will their decades long campaign to weaken the populace pay off? Our culture has become fat, lazy, and overall apathetic to the changes they see in their daily lives. Are we too weak now to do anything about it? Has years of gorging ourselves on fast food, weakening our minds to the television, and succumbing to drug and alcohol abuse, made us too impotent to do anything about the rising tide of oppression?
Or will we see one day when the proverbial Visigoths come over the seventh hill to sack our Rome. Once again throwing us all into a dark age, where security will once again be traded back for freedom?
Then the question becomes, can we achieve balance? Can we have both freedom and security? Or is this a balancing act too hard for humanity to achieve? Are we far enough along in our evolution to balance what we know is right with what we must do?
We all know full well what a United World Government means to The Borg. In fact it is your namesake that is the root fear of what a united humanity may become. In this case however, resistance is far from futile.
On the original subject...
The sequences of events unfolding in this country is quite startling. If one looks at history, we can plainly see what is coming.
During the waning days of the Roman Empire, Rome tried unsuccessfully to keep control over a vast empire, splitting itself into two distinct sub empires, the Western Empire and the East. The Eastern Empire was eventually conquered by the Ottomans, and the Western Empire was destroyed by invading hordes of barbarians starting with the Visigoths.
Following that was a period known as the dark ages in Europe.
In our nations birth we fought an empire that also was tyrannical, At first the protests were peaceful, but populist anger grew at the disenfranchisement of the people. Eventually people banded together to thwart the will of the Empirical control over their lives and a resistance was formed. That resistance turned into a revolution. And that revolution birthed one of the most impressive documents in human history.
This document has served this country for over two hundred years protecting it's people from the oppression that naturally comes from a government out of control.
Now we see that document weakening, it's power over this government being ignored. All the while the people suffer silently at the hands of a government run out of control.
Through the last two centuries there have been those that have sought ways around this document, trying to find loopholes to allow tyranny to once again gain a foothold in the people's lives.
With the government in the eighties slashing education, and the continual brainwashing of the public, using time honored tactics such as fear and propaganda, our population willingly gave over rights to our government it was never entitled.
Now the population is angry at the betrayal that was coming all along? The people aghast at what a government with too much power would do? You traded liberty for security and your shocked at the outcome?
History has shown what would happen in this event. Our founding fathers fought and died to ensure a government like the one they defeated would never rule over it's people again and what do we do with their dream? We throw it away at the first strike against us?
9/11 was a turning point in this nations history, what is to become of the memories of those that died needlessly at the hands of those that wish to destroy our way of life? Not only the terrorists, but those in power that long for the defeat of freedom and the return to elitist control and domination.
Again humanity is at a crossroads, between freedom and totalitarianism.
The current government politically has aligned away from what core values that this country has stood for. Our two party system has shifted from benevolent ideologies to ideologies that mimic more closely those of Stalin and Hitler.
The Democratic party has shifted to a more Socialist standpoint, and they do so day by day, the Republican party has also shifted to a more Fascist system as well.
Don't think the PTB don't know what is going to happen, they have taken steps to ensure that people are well afraid, and they also send out as much propaganda as they can in order to postpone the inevitable.
It's a chess match, one that the PTB have carefully played. Will it be too late once they start their endgame gambit? Will their decades long campaign to weaken the populace pay off? Our culture has become fat, lazy, and overall apathetic to the changes they see in their daily lives. Are we too weak now to do anything about it? Has years of gorging ourselves on fast food, weakening our minds to the television, and succumbing to drug and alcohol abuse, made us too impotent to do anything about the rising tide of oppression?
Or will we see one day when the proverbial Visigoths come over the seventh hill to sack our Rome. Once again throwing us all into a dark age, where security will once again be traded back for freedom?
Then the question becomes, can we achieve balance? Can we have both freedom and security? Or is this a balancing act too hard for humanity to achieve? Are we far enough along in our evolution to balance what we know is right with what we must do?
reply to post by Hazelnut
Your message is all too familiar, and very comforting in a strange way. It is a unifying message. Many of us, myself included have felt this way in one or more respects. We feel you, and you are NOT alone.
My wife understands my passion for the cause, yet doesn't understand the motive. I can see the frustration in her eyes when I am absorbed reading a post, or typing one. Countless times she has stood at the threshold of the office, asking when I'll be to bed. She understands that I am committed, yet does not know that the baby sleeping in the next room, or the two "cooking" in her belly are the reason I stay involved... There's fear in there too, I hear it in her voice.
I've told her (WAY too many times) that times are going to get tough. That we will likely have to go without modern conveniences in the near future, that the next trip to the grocery store may be the last. She's aware, yet is still living her life as if she were not.
I like to think that the same is true for many of your family and friends, as well as neighbors and fellow countrymen.
I know it's a dream.
There will be mass confusion. It will be ugly.
I want to "save" everybody too, but I am a realist.
We, as patriots, have a responsibility above all else to our blood. We fight with words for now, hoping that the unawakened masses will become vocal. The mere existence of this thread proves that we are growing in numbers. We hope that words, and constituent action will be enough.
We fear most of all that the words will fall on deaf ears, and that we will need to take the path that our first struggle for freedom from tyranny took.
That was not a "popular" struggle at first either. Boston, indeed all of MA was "on her own" at first. Nobody wanted to join rabble rousers like Samuel Adams. Even his cousin, our second President, was a voice of moderation, playing both sides of the issue when he defended the King's troops in the Massacre case... Successfully!
Take comfort in the fact that this thread, and many of the posts are tempered with similar moderation. Rest assured there are many of us feeling the same uncertainty.
We, the People will prevail regardless of how or when. The faith in this, as well as strong perserverence are the most potent weapons we posess.
Your message is all too familiar, and very comforting in a strange way. It is a unifying message. Many of us, myself included have felt this way in one or more respects. We feel you, and you are NOT alone.
My wife understands my passion for the cause, yet doesn't understand the motive. I can see the frustration in her eyes when I am absorbed reading a post, or typing one. Countless times she has stood at the threshold of the office, asking when I'll be to bed. She understands that I am committed, yet does not know that the baby sleeping in the next room, or the two "cooking" in her belly are the reason I stay involved... There's fear in there too, I hear it in her voice.
I've told her (WAY too many times) that times are going to get tough. That we will likely have to go without modern conveniences in the near future, that the next trip to the grocery store may be the last. She's aware, yet is still living her life as if she were not.
I like to think that the same is true for many of your family and friends, as well as neighbors and fellow countrymen.
I know it's a dream.
There will be mass confusion. It will be ugly.
I want to "save" everybody too, but I am a realist.
We, as patriots, have a responsibility above all else to our blood. We fight with words for now, hoping that the unawakened masses will become vocal. The mere existence of this thread proves that we are growing in numbers. We hope that words, and constituent action will be enough.
We fear most of all that the words will fall on deaf ears, and that we will need to take the path that our first struggle for freedom from tyranny took.
That was not a "popular" struggle at first either. Boston, indeed all of MA was "on her own" at first. Nobody wanted to join rabble rousers like Samuel Adams. Even his cousin, our second President, was a voice of moderation, playing both sides of the issue when he defended the King's troops in the Massacre case... Successfully!
Take comfort in the fact that this thread, and many of the posts are tempered with similar moderation. Rest assured there are many of us feeling the same uncertainty.
We, the People will prevail regardless of how or when. The faith in this, as well as strong perserverence are the most potent weapons we posess.
Here is what is idiotic and mad about our entire situation.
The powers the control or be win either way.
If you rise up and fight they win, if you follow and obey they win.
How can this be, well everyone that picks a side and fights loses because they (the powers that be) fund both sides. The powers that control hold interest in everything manufactured, banks that lend money to war efforts and collect taxes that people pay willingly. When everything is destroyed they profit off of rebuilding and the destruction.
Wake the hell up. All this chest beating and talk of destroying the evil doers is an Oxymoron. "Fighting for Peace" LOL!
When are people going to really wake up?
What would happen if people actually did nothing for about 3 months? And I mean nothing but relax, have a fun, talk with each other, do things they always dream about at their miserable work day. Maybe people would actually find some peaceful solutions.
If you keep the rats running that is all you will ever find.
The powers the control or be win either way.
If you rise up and fight they win, if you follow and obey they win.
How can this be, well everyone that picks a side and fights loses because they (the powers that be) fund both sides. The powers that control hold interest in everything manufactured, banks that lend money to war efforts and collect taxes that people pay willingly. When everything is destroyed they profit off of rebuilding and the destruction.
Wake the hell up. All this chest beating and talk of destroying the evil doers is an Oxymoron. "Fighting for Peace" LOL!
When are people going to really wake up?
What would happen if people actually did nothing for about 3 months? And I mean nothing but relax, have a fun, talk with each other, do things they always dream about at their miserable work day. Maybe people would actually find some peaceful solutions.
If you keep the rats running that is all you will ever find.
Gee I missed this post somehow. Where have I been? Yes many people of both parties are starting to awaken. I even agreed with the ACLU the other
day.
There are many detractors here on ATS, and that is their right, that say a few cannot overcome the many. But history has shown otherwise, even current history.
Men will do what is necessary to protect and serve their family, as well as their country. we are not far from it now. Recently I returned from the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot and was amazed at the mood of the people. Yes their is a growing, quietly stirring of the sleeping giant of the American populace.
As this starts to swell and grow we will see increasing attempts to belittle this. From labeling to name calling. But I see it as nearly unstoppable. Soon there will be another "shot heard round the world" but we must wait quietly for it. The movement is here and alive, it must however bide it's time before it moves. There are more people than meets the eye in support of this.
respectfully
reluctantpawn
P.S. drooper were you in the 5TH? And have you ever visited C.A.?
There are many detractors here on ATS, and that is their right, that say a few cannot overcome the many. But history has shown otherwise, even current history.
Men will do what is necessary to protect and serve their family, as well as their country. we are not far from it now. Recently I returned from the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot and was amazed at the mood of the people. Yes their is a growing, quietly stirring of the sleeping giant of the American populace.
As this starts to swell and grow we will see increasing attempts to belittle this. From labeling to name calling. But I see it as nearly unstoppable. Soon there will be another "shot heard round the world" but we must wait quietly for it. The movement is here and alive, it must however bide it's time before it moves. There are more people than meets the eye in support of this.
respectfully
reluctantpawn
P.S. drooper were you in the 5TH? And have you ever visited C.A.?
Everything everyone has said is duly noted and recorded. "THEY" know who you are, where you are and when the time comes will round you up and it
will all be over with. RIP America, for she is dead already.
reply to post by whaaa
maybe it is what people want, not all races fall into formation when it comes to how we built and maintained this great country, now you have appeasers, non -conformists, and those who want to bring their lifestyles from other countries here to make it just like home, why? because we gave too many inches over the past two decades in a "keeping up with the jones'" type of race with europe. instead of sticking with what made us a leader in the world, now its our job to police the world yet in the same sentence be ridiculed for such actions. this probably sounds racist to you "progressives" but i have watched this morph over the last 30 years and now see where it has brought us. there is a time and place for stopping the "buck", and im afraid that time has already passed. whats more important to you? be kind to others that have changed the face of this nation in a bad way, or putting your foot down and appearing to be prejudiced so as to preserve a long standing way of life...............
maybe it is what people want, not all races fall into formation when it comes to how we built and maintained this great country, now you have appeasers, non -conformists, and those who want to bring their lifestyles from other countries here to make it just like home, why? because we gave too many inches over the past two decades in a "keeping up with the jones'" type of race with europe. instead of sticking with what made us a leader in the world, now its our job to police the world yet in the same sentence be ridiculed for such actions. this probably sounds racist to you "progressives" but i have watched this morph over the last 30 years and now see where it has brought us. there is a time and place for stopping the "buck", and im afraid that time has already passed. whats more important to you? be kind to others that have changed the face of this nation in a bad way, or putting your foot down and appearing to be prejudiced so as to preserve a long standing way of life...............
reply to post by expat2368
Yep, and they may find a few nasty surprises waiting for them. Most here are aware that they are on the "list"
respectfully
reluctantpawn
Yep, and they may find a few nasty surprises waiting for them. Most here are aware that they are on the "list"
respectfully
reluctantpawn
reply to post by Eye of Horus
If we do something it's what they want, if we don't do something, that's what they want to! It DOESN'T matter! Don't you get it? If we do NOTHING, they will STILL take away our rights! Perhaps even faster than if we did take action, since they'd see that we've become nothing but cowards who will gladly bend over and take their abuse.
At least by acting and taking up arms, we might still have a chance and maybe present a big enough threat that they'll be scared.
I have a sneaky suspicion that those that say "they want you to take up arms to cause more problems" what they're REALLY saying is " I'm too afraid to take up arms, so I'll make up something to justify it"
I'm sorry bud, but in this instance, whether we take up arms or not, it doesn't change the fact that they're going to take our rights. Wouldn't you rather at least try to act?
There's been a saying I have always valued "Give me liberty or give me death" and "Better to die standing up, than live groveling on the ground" It's starting to look like many have simply forgotten what it is to be honorable because they're too busy eating and watching TV, and before anybody starts prejudging me, telling me I'm nothing but hot air. I AM preparing for the coming revolution, both physically and mentally, I AM stocking up on survival tools just in case. So yes, unlike many who will simply be all talk and no walk, I will actually be prepared.
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Question]
If we do something it's what they want, if we don't do something, that's what they want to! It DOESN'T matter! Don't you get it? If we do NOTHING, they will STILL take away our rights! Perhaps even faster than if we did take action, since they'd see that we've become nothing but cowards who will gladly bend over and take their abuse.
At least by acting and taking up arms, we might still have a chance and maybe present a big enough threat that they'll be scared.
I have a sneaky suspicion that those that say "they want you to take up arms to cause more problems" what they're REALLY saying is " I'm too afraid to take up arms, so I'll make up something to justify it"
I'm sorry bud, but in this instance, whether we take up arms or not, it doesn't change the fact that they're going to take our rights. Wouldn't you rather at least try to act?
There's been a saying I have always valued "Give me liberty or give me death" and "Better to die standing up, than live groveling on the ground" It's starting to look like many have simply forgotten what it is to be honorable because they're too busy eating and watching TV, and before anybody starts prejudging me, telling me I'm nothing but hot air. I AM preparing for the coming revolution, both physically and mentally, I AM stocking up on survival tools just in case. So yes, unlike many who will simply be all talk and no walk, I will actually be prepared.
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Question]
reply to post by expat2368
So be it then. I will not live in Fear. I also have a list and on this list is anyone presenting me with the option of fight or flight. I live with pride and will die with the same. Fear is ignorance.
Should I be taken and not killed, my strength and determination will infect others until the exponential effect is reached. Man does not rule man. Or woman. It is man's duty to co-exist with man. Man does not accept bullies unless he is ignorant and full of fear.
If my participation is viewed by the PTB as a threat, then I have served my purpose. My example is one little fleck on the screen of the universe. I will not lie down, nor will I ever be silenced. The bullies wishing to strike fear in my heart will realize too late that killing my body is not enough. For when my body lies in repose with countless other expendible pawns, the truth of man's existence will be on the tongues of all. The small group of power and control mongers will cry like babies at the imminence of their demise.
This is my playground and I will share. One rule. Don't beat up on the little kids! If you beat up on the little kids, you will suffer the exact humiliation you intended for them.
So be it then. I will not live in Fear. I also have a list and on this list is anyone presenting me with the option of fight or flight. I live with pride and will die with the same. Fear is ignorance.
Should I be taken and not killed, my strength and determination will infect others until the exponential effect is reached. Man does not rule man. Or woman. It is man's duty to co-exist with man. Man does not accept bullies unless he is ignorant and full of fear.
If my participation is viewed by the PTB as a threat, then I have served my purpose. My example is one little fleck on the screen of the universe. I will not lie down, nor will I ever be silenced. The bullies wishing to strike fear in my heart will realize too late that killing my body is not enough. For when my body lies in repose with countless other expendible pawns, the truth of man's existence will be on the tongues of all. The small group of power and control mongers will cry like babies at the imminence of their demise.
This is my playground and I will share. One rule. Don't beat up on the little kids! If you beat up on the little kids, you will suffer the exact humiliation you intended for them.
If we all did nothing they would not have the funds to keep going.
Greed, fear, anger, doubt, confusion, taking advantage of all of the previous stated keeps the madness going.
How would the powers that control or the few at the top deal with everyone just doing nothing, and what I mean by nothing is doing only for themselves and their families, not putting back into a corrupt system.
How many people keep paying taxes? How many people question the system but actually fear it and still pay?
Their is nothing wrong with people paying into a collective system that is not corrupt, but people still buy stocks, bonds, go to work everyday because they are in debt or have chosen a lifestyle that keeps them in the rat race.
And now it's the governments fault or bank?
My questions are for reflection and completely rhetorical. The madness, anger, chaos will not end until people stop needing more and more material things and take the time to start appreciating life and the people in it.
Why do we need people to govern us? Because we are insecure and with insecurity comes doubt.
Let's say everything collapses, people rise up take back what is right and just, who are the new leaders? Now we are right back where we started, but with new bosses. Circular madness, plain and simple.
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Realtruth]
Greed, fear, anger, doubt, confusion, taking advantage of all of the previous stated keeps the madness going.
How would the powers that control or the few at the top deal with everyone just doing nothing, and what I mean by nothing is doing only for themselves and their families, not putting back into a corrupt system.
How many people keep paying taxes? How many people question the system but actually fear it and still pay?
Their is nothing wrong with people paying into a collective system that is not corrupt, but people still buy stocks, bonds, go to work everyday because they are in debt or have chosen a lifestyle that keeps them in the rat race.
And now it's the governments fault or bank?
My questions are for reflection and completely rhetorical. The madness, anger, chaos will not end until people stop needing more and more material things and take the time to start appreciating life and the people in it.
Why do we need people to govern us? Because we are insecure and with insecurity comes doubt.
Let's say everything collapses, people rise up take back what is right and just, who are the new leaders? Now we are right back where we started, but with new bosses. Circular madness, plain and simple.
Originally posted by Question
reply to post by Eye of Horus
If we do NOTHING, they will STILL take away our rights! Perhaps even faster than if we did nothing, since they see that we've become nothing but cowards who will gladly bend over and take their abuse.
At least by acting and taking up arms, we might still have a chance and maybe present a big enough threat that they'll be scared.
I have a sneaky suspicion that those that say "they want you to take up arms to cause more problems" what they're REALLY saying is " I'm too afraid to take up arms, so I'll make up something to justify it"
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Realtruth]
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