Obama unequivocal: 'I believe that waterboarding was torture'

Yes, if they are trying to plot against our soldiers and our country than by all means they deserve what they get. You see ever since the torture memos were released there has been an outstanding amount of people with the "we're better than that" opinion and "we are putting our troops in more danger by torturing"...well I am going to let you in on a little fact that as long as there is a jihad in the name of allah declared against America, everyone is in danger. The way you write, you intend to portray my opinion as everyday treatment when I clearly intend to reserve the right to protect this country by ANY and ALL means. It 's as simple as that. Innocent people starve and die and get evicted and forced into very bad situations everyday right here in America, and if people like you tried sticking up for the ones who struggle everyday in the pursuit of there own happiness as much as you are worried about the quality of life that people arrested trying to kill our troops, this world might really be a different place.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Our bases around the world are because of requests by those countries or reciprocal agreements with them. How does that justify or invite hatred of Americans? I am extremely sick of hearing this argument. How many times are the horrible Americans asked for help by other countries?

One of the most ridiculous examples was in the aftermath of the tsunami in Indonesia. Do you recall the outcry that the Americans should have given more money to aid the victims? Do you recall the Americans were the first to provide aid and had given more than any other country, at the time of the accusations?

Why is it that we are constantly attacked and slandered for things like "water boarding", but never thanked for the good that we do around the world? I know we are not perfect, especially our elitest government. However, no country is. It becomes increasingly difficult for me to support foreign aid, when we are constantly labeled as evil, by the very people we are helping.

Pardon my diversion from the OP. Now...Water boarding...

First, having someone believe they are in danger (when there is no actual danger) in order to save the lives of, potentially, thousands of innocent people...No brainer. If someone has kidnapped a member of my family or threatened to cause them harm (with the obvious means to carry out the threat), water boarding should be the least of their worries. Far more painful measures would bring a quicker resolution.

Water boarding is not bamboo shoots under the fingernails. Water boarding is not the removal of fingernails by pliers. Water boarding is not the intentional breaking of bones. Water boarding is not being doused with diesel and set afire. The list of techniques used by others, against Americans and others, is endless and far more "tortureous".

I know I will not change anyone's mind with my comments, just as none of you bleeding hearts will change mine. Just thought I'd offer them for the sake of argument.

One last thing comes to mind. Remember, we are dealing with people who want to murder (and have) people for making cartoons and caricatures of Mohammed???? Do you really think saying please will yield any results?

[edit on 30-4-2009 by WTFover]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by johnsky
May I remind you that most of them aren't terrorists?

Says you ... and says left wing bloggers and anti-American websites.

Reality says that when these evil pukes are let free they just end up back on the battle field killing our soldiers and innocent civilians.


[edit on 4/30/2009 by FlyersFan]

Cough Cough.... I beg to differ.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Why is it that we are constantly attacked and slandered for things like "water boarding", but never thanked for the good that we do around the world? I know we are not perfect, especially our elitest government. However, no country is. It becomes increasingly difficult for me to support foreign aid, when we are constantly labeled as evil, by the very people we are helping.
[edit on 30-4-2009 by WTFover]

We need leaders that can point these things out once in a while. We let a number of known anti-american types do big business in the US and then tolerate their public trash about the US.

As far a water boarding, there hasn't been a large response to this worldwide becouse a number of countries use similar methods and much worse. Americans are discussing this for a number of reasons but many nations just see this as the usual american stumbling around with hypocrisy and idealism.

Besides, for others Obama is doing their work for them. Must be nice to have a sock puppet for some at the helm of the money bag bleeding heart US.

Another good thing about water boarding is that many cant speak about it without opening themselves up for the hypocrites they are. When compared to walking into a shopping market and setting yourself off, opening your mouth against water boarding simply magnifies the contrast in methodology.

I mean whos complaining? People that send nut jobs into public places packed with exsplosives and ball bearings?

There are others that see the US water boarding as a clear signal that we can play some hardball without stumbling over ideological considerations that are used against us anyway. They love to see americans having a moral crisis over this issue and certainly not becouse they care about our or any moral considerations. They are worried about what will happen if we really go off the hook and stop bringing a softball to the hardball game. Stop letting others manipulate us with our own ideas of fair play and so on.

I can't wait to see what happens to those who authorized torture in our gov.

They have made us less safe because of it.

Thank God Obama has brought America to the place where we have turned the corner back towards our values.

God Bless the USA, where we do NOT place American Lives higher than Human Rights!!!

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Thank God Obama has brought America to the place where we have turned the corner back towards our values.

God Bless the USA, where we do NOT place American Lives higher than Human Rights!!!

Huh?
Have you heard Obama has not ended the Iraq war, as he promised you? He has not closed Gitmo, as he promised you? He decided the military tribunals for enemy combatants, as set up by the Bush administration, were not such a bad idea after all and is reinstituting them? Where is this magical "corner" you speak of? You should wake up to the fact that Obama's campaign rhetoric was just that. You will never see anyone prosecuted for the interrogation techniques used againt the terrorists.

Secondly, since when are American lives any less important than any one elses? Americans are not entitled to human rights?

Is he going to ban these methods on our own troops then too? From what i have heard, its standard training the our special forces go through in case they ever get captured. Surely he doesnt wish to "torture" our troops...

You cant have it both ways Obama..

To all the keyboard commandos in this thread talking about how torture has made us MORE SAFE...PROVE IT.

Show ONE piece of evidence that has not been refuted and shown to be trash that proves your stance that torture has some how helped in the war on terror and prevented ANY attack.

As I have already pointed out the REAL professionals who deal with military and intelligence matters disagree with you. But because you have a computer and access to the internet you obviously think you know better then them, so PROVE it.

You opinions mean nothing so why not bust out the big guns and shock and awe us with your REAL expertise and show us the proof that your opinion is more than hot air.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal


Even if someone were to provide evidence that showed these tactics worked, you would still be in disbelief of those facts.

I think Obama is foolish to simply discount such tactics. To apply the geneva convention to gorilla warfare, and against and enemy that wears no national uniform...He simply fails to understand the current conflict, and the geneva convention. I guess he wasnt reading a teleprompter....

So, what will happen now that Obama seems to be handicapping our soldiers? I think you will see our military take matters into their own hands, and make damn sure these enemy combatants (aka terrorist) die on the battlefield, rather than let them hide behind our laws, while being able to run freely inside the US.



[edit on 3-5-2009 by Fox News]

Originally posted by Fox News
reply to post by Animal

 

Even if someone were to provide evidence that showed these tactics worked, you would still be in disbelief of those facts.

So you've got nothing? Well..I knew that.

I think Obama is foolish to simply discount such tactics. To apply the geneva convention to gorilla warfare, and against and enemy that wears no national uniform...He simply fails to understand the current conflict, and the geneva convention. I guess he wasnt reading a teleprompter....

Overlooking your foolish jab at a man who could dance circles around BOTH of us verbally and intellectually, exactly WHICH conflict are you talking about? It is funny but since 9/11 the only conflicts I have seen are the ones WE created.

So, what will happen now that Obama seems to be handicapping our soldiers? I think you will see our military take matters into their own hands, and make damn sure these enemy combatants (aka terrorist) die on the battlefield, rather than let them hide behind our laws, while being able to run freely inside the US.

Awesome, one more keyboard commando to add to my list of 'specialists' i can turn to to clarify security matters for me.

What I find so comical about your above statement is you talk as if the inability to torture is going to upset the military one of the many 'specialist' establishments that is clearly and openly AGAINST torture. I am sure they are happy to hear you care, but I imagine they would prefer you left policy statements to them, seeing as how you DISAGREE with them on the issues.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I can't wait to see what happens to those who authorized torture in our gov.

They have made us less safe because of it.

Thank God Obama has brought America to the place where we have turned the corner back towards our values.

God Bless the USA, where we do NOT place American Lives higher than Human Rights!!!

America is far more tolerant than any other nation in the world. It is far more benevolent then several of the past empires. We hold ourselves to a high standard, and have in the past.

We face an enemy who is determind, and has killed, in brutal fashion, Americans, and innocent civilians. All this, to undermine us. They are playing a psychological warfare that seems to be helping them. Obama is doing us no favors by handicapping our soldiers... This is war, and war is ugly. This fact is reality. And this is the reality we find ourselves in today. The people who decapitated Daniel Pearle's head from his body, are not human, and therefore do not deserve the dignity of being protected by human rights. the sooner we come to these terms, and let our military go and do what it is supposed to do, the better off the world is.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Fox News]

Originally posted by Animal

Overlooking your foolish jab at a man who could dance circles around BOTH of us verbally and intellectually, exactly WHICH conflict are you talking about? It is funny but since 9/11 the only conflicts I have seen are the ones WE created.

Obama has created an illusion of wittiness. His speech writers are the true "Geniuses."

As far as the US creating conflicts... Are you saying that you think we deserved 9/11?

Awesome, one more keyboard commando to add to my list of 'specialists' i can turn to to clarify security matters for me.

I wish I could say I was sorry I did not live up to your skewed perception of reality, but that would be a lie.

What I find so comical about your above statement is you talk as if the inability to torture is going to upset the military one of the many 'specialist' establishments that is clearly and openly AGAINST torture. I am sure they are happy to hear you care, but I imagine they would prefer you left policy statements to them, seeing as how you DISAGREE with them on the issues.

No, they will simply kill these enemy combatants as they have done in the past, rather then turning them over to suffer what amounts to harmless misdemeanor.

By showing compassion to people who hate our guts, it will only serve them to their advantage, not ours.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Fox News]

Originally posted by Animal
To all the keyboard commandos in this thread talking about how torture has made us MORE SAFE...PROVE IT.

September 11, 2001...Almost 3,000 people murdered within an hour, on American soil, by terrorists.

September 12, 2001 to May 03, 2009...No attacks on American soil.

Proof enough for me.

reply to post by WTFover


dude we should hook up.

i have some prime wares i would love to sell you, and it sure looks like your buying.

Originally posted by Fox News
reply to post by Animal

 

Even if someone were to provide evidence that showed these tactics worked, you would still be in disbelief of those facts.

You were correct, sir!

Originally posted by Fox News
Is he going to ban these methods on our own troops then too? From what i have heard, its standard training the our special forces go through in case they ever get captured. Surely he doesnt wish to "torture" our troops...

You cant have it both ways Obama..

I am pretty sure that the people in the special forces are there by choice and do not have to submit themselves to such treatment by not going into that service. That is quite different than the enemy rounding you up and selling you to American soldiers to be treated that way for years.

Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by Animal
To all the keyboard commandos in this thread talking about how torture has made us MORE SAFE...PROVE IT.

September 11, 2001...Almost 3,000 people murdered within an hour, on American soil, by terrorists.

September 12, 2001 to May 03, 2009...No attacks on American soil.

Proof enough for me.

1 - because we went to the enemy where they could kill us on their soil. We did them a favor.

2 - who was clinton torturing for 8 years?

reply to post by evil incarnate


You will, probably, never know on whom Clinton authorized enhanced interrogation techniques. Because, the administration that followed him respected the necessity of keeping that information classified.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

You will, probably, never know on whom Clinton authorized enhanced interrogation techniques. Because, the administration that followed him respected the necessity of keeping that information classified.

So you are actually contending that we were safe for those 8 years because he was already running secret torture prisons for the entirety of his presidency? Wow, what color is your sky?

P.S. I take you are alluding to Obama releasing the torture memos. I again have to ask, what color is your sky. Here in the real world in America, all of that information was already out there. Anyone that watched the news or the daily show for the last YEAR already knew all of that stuff. Please do not go there. That would be another pointless thread of hate and is completely insane.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by evil incarnate]

reply to post by evil incarnate


First of all, you brought up the idea we were safe during the Clinton era.

"The 1993 World Trade Center bombing occurred on February 26, 1993, when a car bomb was detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City."
en.wikipedia.org...

This was one month into Clinton's Presidency. Why do you believe we were not attacked for the next 8 years 7 months?