Naked Wizard Tasered at Coachella

I just wanted to post that you cannot assume that it is illegal to be naked in public everywhere. there is no Federal nudity law in the US, and it is legal to be nude in San Francisco, with some restrictions (like you can't be doing anything considered to be sexual assault).

Well im not sure what to think about this. It looks like the cops were trying to be nice at first but the guy had to be a jerk about it.

The officers you surveyed, like everyone else is entitled to their opinion.

You and I and everyone else here have the luxury of rewind, pause and slow motion.

-When I watch the video, I am not just looking at the man, I'm thinking about what else is going on at that moment.

-He is naked in public so he could be on some sort of narcotic and possibly not mentally together.

-He is naked and very slippery.

-He is resisting verbal and physical prompts to comply.

-There is a crowd. People are yelling and getting closer. Is he alone or does he have friends that are about to intervene?

The things about situations like that are that they happen in the blink of an eye. Sure it had been developing but the situation doesn't really start until it got physical.

Once that happened the idea is to end it as soon as possible. If the man had been restrained and the knee was dropped, I would agree it excessive.

He wasn't under control yet.

Originally posted by traveler928
reply to post by adigregorio

 

It would be irresponsible to the further jeopardize the safety of all involved by not using all the force and tactics available to them in order not to extend the restraint.

Yeah, clearly this man was a lethal weapon just waiting to take out half the crowd with his malicious intent - the cops should really just have shot him in the back of the head and got it over with.



I despair.

In the heat of the moment, there's an excuse for paranoid, macho, aggressive law enforcement types to over-react or act without much critical judgement, but to sit in your armchair at home, and calmly ignore all concepts of basic human decency, compassion and perception, just baffles me.

It seems many have completely lost the ability to think things through and have accepted that violence is a perfaectly acceptable and often preferable solution to social challenges.

Sad, really sad.

[edit on 28/4/09 by RogerT]

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

If you were in Foster Care then you were not disciplined at all, unless your Foster Parents broke the rules.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Edited for clarity as to what I am responding to.

I have been a foster parent and I can guarantee that we disciplined our foster children. We disciplined them WITHOUT using corporeal punishment (spanking), but they were disciplined. Our foster children are now grown, and doing great.

I think the difference is in what people believe discipline to be. Some people believe that if you do not use corporeal punishment, then you are not disciplining your children. I believe I can discipline my children without resorting to physical violence. Yes, hitting someone is violence, and spanking is hitting someone. Using the term "spanking" does not remove that truth.

To whoever said the guy should not have been panicking and flailing his arms after being tased, uhm is about all I have to say to that. Let's do an experiment and tase you, and let's see how you react.

For those of you saying the wizard was reaching for the police officers gun, the wizard was NOT reaching for the police officers gun, the police officer had his hands over the wizards face at this time in the video, and it looked as if the wizard was trying to push the police officer off of him, NOT reaching for his weapon.

Originally posted by traveler928
reply to post by adigregorio

 

I'll reply to that.

He wasn't in a submissive position. Submissive means inclined or ready to submit unresistingly.

You can see in the video and even in that still frame that he was still resisting.

Restraining someone doesn't mean restraining someone when they feel like it, or by sharing an equal portion of the struggle.

It was obvious through the several minutes prior that the man wasn't going to comply with very polite requests made by law enforcement.

It would be irresponsible to the further jeopardize the safety of all involved by not using all the force and tactics available to them in order not to extend the restraint.

Re watch the video please, the wizard had both hands up in a surrender position for ?? several seconds before the f*t cop slams his weight into the wizards stomach/chest.

The move was dangerous, and could cause internal damage. Period.

It was an unnecessary violent move on the part of the police. I really and truly think that three 3 big police, can subdue a naked wizard, even if the wizard was on something.

Though I guess if he had a fireball or lightning spell available for use, then he would have been dangerous. Too bad he did not have teleportation memorized, then he could have teleported and exchanged places with one of the other police officers right before he gets slammed in the gut/chest with a knee.

The only one who was in danger, in this particular situation, was the wizard from police.

The only violence I saw, came from the side of the police. Being naked does not equal being violent. If it does we had all better start wearing clothing when taking showers, having sex, sleeping etc.

Not all laws are appropriate, if anyone believes that all laws are appropriate, take your rose colored glasses off please.

We used to have a law that stated men could cut off their wifes hand if she did not bring him a hot lunch. If everyone followed laws just because they are laws, bad ones would never be removed, people would not question and grow. We would stagnate further than we have.

I feel that those who are upset over the possibility of seeing a naked body, well, I don't know what I feel, maybe just disgust over peoples neurotic emotions over what every human is born with, a naked body. Grow up

And come on, I am not saying that everyone should start running around naked, I am saying it is taken to the extreme, such a tasing this wizard for being naked, far too much in many societies.

I think many have been brainwashed into believing the human body is somehow "nasty" or "evil" or "bad", jeesh what a bunch of crap. The only "bad" thing about the naked human body is what people might choose to do once they are naked, and how people react when they see a naked body.

Peace

reply to post by amazed


if you really beleive that this wizard was infact tased just for being naked,you are the one with the funny glasses on..

Ok Let me see if I can understand the mentality of the cops in this situation... Naked man bothering people, breaking the law, I need to do something. I think I will wrestle the naked man to the ground, knee him a time or two and then, while he is still nude, shock the crap out of him in front of everyone.... No I just dont get it. If they thought he was so bad prancing around naked why would they think that display of rolling around on the ground abusing him while he was naked would be better? Could anyone explain how this was "protecting" anyone?

Originally posted by Redpillblues
reply to post by amazed

 

if you really beleive that this wizard was infact tased just for being naked,you are the one with the funny glasses on..

LOL, I had to reread my posting to see if I actually said what you say I said, I thought maybe I had made a BIG typo.

and I did not. I do not see where I said "the man was tased only because he was naked".

If that is the only thing you took from my posting, I say reread it without your funny glasses.

He was tased, because the police are NOT trained how to handle a non violent offender who does not wish to "comply" without becoming violent themselves.

In regards to "funny glasses" I said "Not all laws are appropriate, if anyone believes that all laws are appropriate, take your rose colored glasses off please."

(sarcasm on) So, should I take from what YOU said, that you believe all laws are appropriate? Paleeze what a crock. (sarcasm off)

Oh, and by the way, the police would NOT have gotten involved, if the wizard had clothing on. So yes, I guess someone could stretch that to mean he was tased for being naked. But really come on, he was tased because the poor defenseless three police officers had no idea how to handle a non violent naked wizard who was not interested in clothing himself.

Or the police felt they were in danger of the wizards, uhm, wand, because you know, maybe he had a lightening spell or some such saved in it.

Either way, the police escalated a non violent situation, into a violent situation.

Edited for duh I DID say "such a tasing this wizard for being naked" so I did kind of say that, so thanks for pointing that out. I believe I have cleared that up.
Peace

[edit on 28-4-2009 by amazed]

No I do beleive that some laws are un appropriate..But when someone is offended by someone in the confines of the laws,who are you to say that they do not have the abbility to excercise them..Thats like you walking around naked in your front lawn,while you may think its ok,your neighbor might not..Would you want to take his right away because it benefits your way of living?

try to see it from both side,not just the side your heart resides on..

[edit on 28-4-2009 by Redpillblues]

Would his penis be considered a micro penis?
Wow, i'm kind of fascinated by it it's just so tiny but plump just wow.

How would a guy go out pleasuring himself and or intercourse?
I'm asking honestly, it just doesn't seem possible unless hes a grower and not a shower but still it just doesn't look like it could add up to much.
What a sad life to not be able to enjoy sex.
I'd almost call it a pointless life but part of me isn't that shallow...a tiny..tiny part of me haha.

sorry i'm just hypnotized by it maybe it's his wizard magic.


Also, he got what he deserved they asked him nicely a number of times to please put his clothing on and he wanted to make a "statement" and so on essentially he just wanted attention and he got it a nice shock to the nervous system.
It's a shame you can't administer intelligence or basic logic into people like that.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by pop_science]

nudists exposing themselves around public for "free of expression" bullcrap needs to stop, there could be kids get disturbed by seeing somebody or a group of people naked. go to nude beaches if you wanna be "free and naked" without trouble.

I'll take them on source-by-source. Notice I said for the reasons you cited. I can create a paper with 200 sources that have nothing to do with my original premise.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Hmmm let's take a look then...

Oh, there are 64 sources in there. Right, its "virtually citation free". Allow me to post some links then, since Wikipedia is apparently the bane of information.

Police Officer Suffers Spine Fractures at Taser Demonstration

One isolated incident? Wow, that is just irrefutable proof that Tasers should never be used.

Man dies after police jolt him with stun gun

Did you read the source? This guy was in a fight with four other men, then proceeded to fight the police officer. It's a miracle the officer only used his taser, rather than his revolver. And...the article does not definitely link the death to the use of a taser. All it says is that he was tasered, fell unconscious, and later died. It does not state the cause of death.

One-third of people shot by Taser need medical attention: probe

You should probably read up on how this article uses the term "medical attention." People had burns, puncture wounds, and possible head trauma from falling. If I fell and scraped my knee I would need medical attention, according to this article.

TASER Danger?, 70 Deaths After Use Of Stun Gun Lead To Questions Over Its Safety - CBS News

And this model citizen died of a drug overdose. Tasers don't induce drug overdoses, drugs do!

Stun guns not risk free, inquiry told

This source...helps my position! A 37% reduction in police injuries and a 47% reduction in victim injuries. Sounds like a great idea to me! And as for heart arrhythmia, a soft punch to your temple could just as likely cause your death.

Police stun-gun may be lethal, firm admits

Wow, Taser changed the language on its weapon so that the Attorney General would not prosecute them. That is just the biggest admission of guilt...

Taser shocks ruled cause of death

The first case where a medical examiner ruled that a taser was the primary cause of death. Congrats, that must mean from there on out, tasers are incredibly dangerous.

Man dies after being Tasered

And yet another case of the media jumping on a bandwagon. Note that in this article, the author writes "It's unclear why the man died." Responsible reporting at its best!

There's eight to get you started. Now are you going to say these are disreputable sources of information?

I'll say it once more, ignorance is never an excuse.

To quote you: "ignorance is never an excuse." Read your sources, not their headlines.

Originally posted by savagecupid
Ok Let me see if I can understand the mentality of the cops in this situation... Naked man bothering people, breaking the law, I need to do something. I think I will wrestle the naked man to the ground, knee him a time or two and then, while he is still nude, shock the crap out of him in front of everyone.... No I just dont get it. If they thought he was so bad prancing around naked why would they think that display of rolling around on the ground abusing him while he was naked would be better? Could anyone explain how this was "protecting" anyone?

Good thing the cops jumped to immediate conclusions and started whipping this guy upon first sight.

Oh, no wait, they didn't, they asked the man a number of times to reclothe and be done with the situation. Instead, he decided to ignore them and put his hands all over them. The police did not initiate contact here...

Eeeeoooowww!

If they didn't taser him, their next step should have been to stab themselves in the eye with a fork or any sharp object to inflict immediate blindness.

Someone, please MK Ultra mind control me....get that image outa my head.

OP, please next time give us a courtesy:
"WARNING: you may throw up whilst viewing" disclaimer.

reply to post by elevatedone


sorry - no - i disagree - they [ the police had him restrained by both arms at one point - simply cuff him - arrest him for whatever public order offience is applicable - and wrap the robe around his waiste - and lead him away - using the batton to control his hands / forearms so he cannot remove the robe - very simple

Originally posted by Liberty Lawyer
I'll take them on source-by-source. Notice I said for the reasons you cited. I can create a paper with 200 sources that have nothing to do with my original premise.

All of the links I just gave you were from the Wiki I cited.

And I'm not even going to bother responding beyond that, as you seem to only read what you want to read. You make excuses, focus on other aspects of the articles, and selectively glance over the parts of the which clearly demonstrate the dangers of tasers.

If you can read all eight of those links and still think that there is no danger to taser use, then I might as well be talking to a concrete wall. You carry yourself with the air of an academic, yet resort to ignorance when confronted with evidence contrary to your claims.

Some of the stuff on ATS is SO ignorant that I can hardly even stand reading this site anymore.

This guy was in the wrong, and the police were more then polite with him. When an officer gives you a “Lawful Command”, you do not have the right to negotiate that with him, you are required by law to comply with it. If you feel that the command was unlawful, then you take that up by filing a complaint, or in court, not at the scene. If you refuse to follow a lawful command, the police can force you to follow that command. 99% of the time, they know the law A LOT better then most people, who only THINK they know the law. This is why it’s always bad to PO the police, because they know exactly how to move the situation in a direction from which they can lawfully arrest you.

This guy’s first mistake was not following a command from an officer who was enforcing standing laws for a rock concert on public land. BTW, that is a rock concert, not a pagan festival on private land. Often Pagan Festivals are held on Private land, and here they are actually held on private nudist resorts. His second mistake was touching a police officer. You NEVER touch an officer as it can be taken as an aggressive movement. Police are taught to maintain a 3-foot bubble around them, and you are not to enter that bubble. Third, he resisted arrest, then tried to flee.

Another problem is that while this guy might THINK it’s his right to show off his junk in public, it’s not. Besides it being against the law, it’s also an invasion of other people’s rights to not have to see him naked. As many people consider nakedness offensive, it is their right to not have to view it. This idiots rights ended when they started infringing on other peoples rights.

As to the use of the taser, it is a requirement in most states now, that when someone puts up ANY resistance to being taken into custody, the police are REQUIRED to use either an electrical or chemical device to bring that person into compliance. When the cuffs start coming out, you are going to be arrested, and no amount of struggling or pleading is going to stop that; so your best bet is to just go limp and let them put them on. The police are allowed to inflict as much pain as required to make you comply, without crossing into the use of lethal force. If you don’t like this, then I suggest that you work to change how the laws are written, as most states use a Matrix such as this:

Police Use of Force Matrix

According to what I saw in this video, up to the point when he touched the officers, they had already gone through:

Perp: Verbal, Passive Physical
Police: Arrival, Interview stance, Dialogue, Verbal Direction, and Touch.

After he throws his clothing, touches the officer, and refuses to comply they escalate to:

Perp: Passive Physical.
Police: Restraint Devices, Takedowns.

When he physically resists the handcuffs, they went to:

Perp: Active Physical Resistance
Police: Pain Compliance, Counter Moves, and Intermediate Weapons (Tasers & Chemical)

The police response was spot on EXACTLY in accordance with the rules for the way that Police are to respond, in this country. The people who think it should be lesser simply because it was “only nudity”, are the type of people who get themselves into these sort of situations, and they end up getting a hard education as to what the real facts of the law are. Just because you disagree with a law does not make it any less of a law, and the police are charged with enforcing that law, not discussing its relevance with you.

reply to post by Liberty Lawyer


The point is maybe they should have just let it go and use disgression and not escalated the situation into a huge incident. It makes no sense. “By god he was breaking the rules and he will listen to us or we are going to taser him! Who cares if we are blowing the situation out of proportion!” They took something that, lets face it, was not really a big deal, and turned it into a spectacle that makes the police look like heavy handed idiots, and incompetent ones at that.

I just shake my head to think that people post and have no regaurd to peoples rights not to see a naked man..if the crowd was 10,000 people and as long as 1 person is offended it is there right to have the man either A,have him put his cloths on by first asking..witch he did not and clearly made it clear he was not going to
or B,forcfully removing him from the situation that offends JohnQ public,who was offended..Once he refused to be cuffed all bets are off..

Please people dont be stupid..The only legitamate gripe I see is the stiff knee to his chest..But I am not a cop,so I cant condone it or blast it as abuse..but it is in no way cruel and unusual..cruel and unusual is putting a broom stick up his ass..

[edit on 29-4-2009 by Redpillblues]

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Sorry, for the mere fact, this guy had not a right to be nude in a place that doesn't allow it, he got what he deserved.

If he didn't want to follow the rules, for public nudity at this concert, he shouldn't have gone, plain and simple.

He was nuts alone for the wizard get up he wore, then decided to strip? If some nut gets naked where not appropriate, and fights the police over it, who's to say what else this nut job would have done? The police were doing there job protecting all the other people at this event.

Why should all the other people who paid to be at this place have to put up with such stupidity?

If I had paid for a ticket to the place, I'd have been outraged by this persons behavior.

It was not at all apropriate.

And it's because of people who believe in much the same way you do that this sort of brutality gets justified. Did you know that it's also more correct to drive at the speed at which the cars surrounding you are driving rather than obeying the speed limit ? They actually tell you that when you do your driving exam, a really slow driver on a motorway in the wrong place can be just as dangerous as someone speeding. Obviously you need to use your common sense with this one, you cant just speed as you please and site this as your excuse when pulled over.

The corrolation between what I've mentioned above and the naked wizard incident is that, sure it's good to enforce the law if the guy is walking around naked in a mall but he's at a festival.

I'm glad people like you dont attend any festivals like these, they would probably lose all their appeal and enjoyment because with people like you come cops like those, ready to use force on anyone who gets reported by some square thats trying to be less square by attending a festival but actually just ruining it for everyone.

They'd have been better off staying at home and polishing their abacus.

Notice how the people are not offended by his nudity ? - How the woman PURPOSEFULLY walks up to shake his hand while the cops are there as a gesture to say - he's with us and we're cool with him being naked, in other words - p155 off. None of those people are supporting the cops side, clearly what they(police) did actually disturbed the peace more than the guy just minding his own business being naked.

I realise that you have an issue with the whole nudity thing and thats fine, but your unhealthy fear of uncleanliness has no actual scientific backing. You realise that you are surrounded by peoples dead skin and by faeces and urine in the air anyway, clothes on or off makes no difference. Perhaps you might realise that being exposed to those things is what gives you your resistance to them, and in essence - your place in this world.

..sigh...