More important than a gun?

How about body armour? These newbies are going to be shooting a lot with all the ammo they got but most will end up flying past you as they wince at the heartburn from eating too many MRE Étouffées and Buffalo roadkill "wings".

No doubt this setup is going to be expensive as well. Can I just wear Kevlar long underwear and get away with it? What are we looking at for proper kit? also, what kind of gear would we need? I'm thinking a tac vest a low profile non conspicuous helmet and armoured pants if they make them. Little help?

reply to post by mandroid



In a real survival situation, I feel that body armor would just get in the way. You're going to be dealing more with isolation and the elements, not playing SWAT officer and taking people on left and right.

If you want to go into a gunfight, armor will help you sort of. There's still a good chance you'll end up dead. Add to that the expense, and all the extra calories you'll burn lugging it around, and you're left with a less-than-ideal survival outfit.

Survival is about surviving. Avoid gunfights; in fact avoid confrontations altogether. And if you absolutely have to fight, don't rely on armor. Shoot first, and don't miss.

Your post reminds me of an incident a few years back. I was coming down the mountain when I ran across this young hunter going up the mountain. "HiYa, any luck today"? "SO far I had one sight shot and two sound shots"! he replied proudly.
I got off the mountain and found a bar.

The truth is your better off with a ghillie suit...
Take it from an old War Horse Retired Marine when I say on your own and faced with the possibility of a protracted firefight its better to vanish then stand your ground. you never want your head stone to read, "He put up a valiant effort but in the end was overcome by superior numbers"!

Just think "ZEN" A good ghillie suit not only lets you become the bush it makes for great cover while hunting so it's not a wasted effort.
Besides you ever were body armor all day? it gets too hot an heavy real fast.

"More important than a gun?"

Your brain.

reply to post by mandroid

You will need the metal/ceramic plates to stop rifle rounds.

These guys are making level III plates that test to level IV
standards.

They may be lying but show the plates after shooting them.

At $99 a plate, I have had a hard time finding anyone selling
them cheaper.

.30-06 tested plates

The different levels are explained here in detail below.

Make sure you know what you are buying and unless you set it up
right it will not work as well as you expect.

You want trauma pads behind your plates when that .30 caliber
rifle round stops traveling 2,700 ft//sec. due to hitting you.

If it is a .50 cal you there is no armor to stop it to my knowledge,
except a tank, lol.

Also on ebay some ppl are selling level 3 armor face masks, but I think
you could still end up with a broken neck.

Body Armor performance charts

I provide this info to those who plan to defend themselves, not
ppl looking to cause trouble.

Good Luck to all the good ppl !


[edit on 12-4-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

Body armor just isn't practical in a survival situation. Any REAL survivalist would know this. It weigh's too much and is too cumbersome to move around in if you have to move fast. And if you are hit with a large enough weapon, even if it doesn't penetrate, it will still break bone and cause more damage in the long run. You would be better off without it and have a chance the bullet just goes straight through.

I have to agree with the ghillie suit. Not being seen will offer more protection than body armor ever can.

Yep I will agree with my colleague above, ballistic armour still results in blunt trauma when being hit. Deployment by being out of harms way is much more important. The brain is more deadly than the gun. (Eeeew I can reply now)

Rgds

[edit on 12/4/09 by Dark Vengeance]

As my wise friend Dark Vengeance said the mind is more deadly than the gun. With out using your head you become just like the sheeple that we are striving to NOT be like.

And for the serious survivalist's check out this website.

prepared2survive.phpbbhosts.co.uk...

But only if you are serious.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
"More important than a gun?"

Your brain.

Amen...

Body Armor only works when working in a team or if you have backup. If you take a serious hit from a rifle you'll be out and on the ground and it will be a while till you get back up and fight. So if you're alone that probably means you're still in the line of fire without anyone to provide covering fire or drag your butt out of there.
I can't agree more with DaddyBare about camouflage remember there is cover but there is also concealment. If you read up on any army manual about combat it will mention many tactics on how to build up concealed firing positions and how to move about to avoid detection.

I'm someone to favor guns in any survival sitX (and those of you who don't are just fine thinking that, let's just wait till SHTF and things will prove themselves.) But IMO a gun is just a piece of kit that will do you more good than bad in most situations.

Originally posted by DaddyBare
Your post reminds me of an incident a few years back. I was coming down the mountain when I ran across this young hunter going up the mountain. "HiYa, any luck today"? "SO far I had one sight shot and two sound shots"! he replied proudly.
I got off the mountain and found a bar.

The truth is your better off with a ghillie suit...
Take it from an old War Horse Retired Marine when I say on your own and faced with the possibility of a protracted firefight its better to vanish then stand your ground. you never want your head stone to read, "He put up a valiant effort but in the end was overcome by superior numbers"!

J

BUMP!! I've got my burlap ready to go.
Body armor would be good to have if you had to do some hits but like people have said your better of avoiding confrontation.
Most haven't had the training but you need an E&E plan with several different routes and ORP's.

A silencer is a must have i think.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by freeordie]

Haha the use your brain comment is the best! Reminds me of the quote "he's not unarmed, he still has his wits!"

You are better off being the first to shoot, real combat is about reflexes and tactics, not superiority. Hence why guerillas are so effective.

Its true kevlar vests weigh a ton and without the trauma you are going to have broken ribs, internally bleeding organs and such. And unless you're going against all 9x19mm you're pretty much screwed. If you have the money get Dragon Skin which I cant say I know personally, but from test videos it looks amazing. And light.

Then I have to mention the Russian forces and Spetsnaz do not use kevlar, and Spetsnaz is the elite force in the world. The army is because it would be too expensive, but why wouldnt Spetsnaz use kevlar?
They go by the principle that the best defence is a good offense, and a good offense is useless if you dont have the mobility to utilise it. If you ever watch a Spetsnaz doing knife training you will see why. They are scary!

Thanks that is some good advice and I am pretty good at making myself scarce by all means necessary. I have heaps of burlap, should I make over pants and some jackets and just stuff them with branches and what not?

What about getting some model airplanes with video so I can keep an eye on the back 40? This is gonna get nuts if people start using those as weapons. Is there a suit that hides your heat signature? I don't think I will really have to deal with that as there are too many bottlenecks before the riff-raff could get here. Even boats are going to be limited by fuel except for sailboats.

Maybe a fishing rod is more important than a gun for a lot of people seeing as food is going to be the first commodity really missed.

While there seems to be negative attitude towards body armour I would certainly wear it if I was defending a location such as a BOL or hide that was suddenly comprimised.
In temperate and arctic areas light body armour isn't so bad. I wore flak jacket and plates in Kosovo and it was a real burden.
The big breastplate ones the yanks wear must really be a beast.

It'll act as padding along with slowing down incoming rounds. Forget the trauma plates they weigh a lot.
So stick with a flak jacket. They are light and give some protection from knives, blunt force trauma and low calibre weapons.

Also a 50 calibre round has been stopped by a helmet. But by skinning through along and down the top of the helm. The soldier in question was in a coma for 2 weeks from the trauma though..

reply to post by mandroid


In a survival situation, the last thing you want to do is fight. Run away, if at all possible, and hopefully not fight another day...that would seem to be the credo to live by, if TPHHTF...


[edit on 4/16/2009 by seagull]

Originally posted by WatchRider
While there seems to be negative attitude towards body armour I would certainly wear it if I was defending a location such as a BOL or hide that was suddenly comprimised.

I would also if defending my bug out location because my family will be there. But if you don't have a specific BOL and are trying to stay mobile then you don't want the extra weight. It'll slow you down and get you killed.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by mandroid

 

In a survival situation, the last thing you want to do is fight. Run away, if at all possible, and hopefully not fight another day...that would seem to be the credo to live by, if TPHHTF...


[edit on 4/16/2009 by seagull]

Once again, the survivalist who tries to run away can only run as fast as his pursuer can!
I'm talking about circumstances where you HAVE to fight. In this case I'd be wearing body armour every time. The heavy stuff if possible.
Lighter if on the move.
Moving and grooving like ninja man is funky when you're out of sight or doing some night moves. But in broad daylight it's not quite so easy.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by WatchRider]

A good pair of boots is by far more important than a gun! Without proper footwear you can't find food or water!

I think more important than a gun besides obviously your brain filled with proper knowledge, would be an excellent fixed blade survival knife.

You can accomplish more with a good old knife than with a gun. Granted gun would be easier for hunting food. But with a knife you can use it to tap a cactus for water. There wouldn't be much cactus left if you shot at it.