For those who say "get a job, or you are useless"

i had a apprentiship from when i left school, economy goes down hill they cant even afford to keep on a apprentice a year and a half through my course and 1 week before christmas i got made redundent also it was 6 days before my birithday then i was unemployed for 3 months and its hell then got a job for a month doing some labour as manufacturing or anything within the line of work is gone around here then that job got cut now i am back unemployed.

but people get any job if yuor abit shallow or think your too godo to work at the losers place remember this, if you think your job defines you then your pretty sad. you are not your job.

btw i am only 18 so not had the best time after school however we all need to learn what we actually need. friends family yes

exspensive clothes and games systems no.

grammers crap because i am tired

Live life what ever situation you are in. enjoy your self. if your reading this your in a better position compared to alot of other people.

moans over.

reply to post by Donnie Darko



My husband and I have always been very hard workers. Believe it or not I have to keep busy or I go nuts, but we can’t find traditional jobs. So I have started my own non profit agency. It doesn't pay yet but I hope it grows into a paid position. Because we can't find traditional work does that make us no good for nothing scum? I like to think not. We have painted and cleaned our house from top to bottom since being laid off and we are putting out a big garden. My husband has been taking odd jobs and we draw unemployment. It is hard but thus far we have made it. We have become very conservative, unlike when we were both making good money. Honestly we are enjoying ourselves. What scares me is if we cannot secure paid positions when our unemployment runs out I don not know what we will do. I just keep my faith in God that he will provide, which is about all we can do. Oh did I mention that I am now a full time student and very involved with church. Honestly I was not this busy when I was in the corporate world. So do I think those who do not hold traditional employment are sorry? NO I DO NOT! And anyone that does should be ashamed of their ignorance.

goodluck with your new agency i hope it turns out well for you, i feel that these tough times will make us remember how we need our community here in the uk we dont have that tight next door neighbour relationship anymore.

I think people in the UK should look toward the US and look at the job situation because we are not far behind.

what if you CAN'T get work? like me. some people literally can't find it, and are forced to live off people's charity.

What prevents you from becoming self-employed? There's alot of things one can do and make a good living without having to have a ton of start up money or any money at all, as far as that goes. I have cleaned houses, mowed lawns, painted fences, pressure washed decks and am in the process of starting my own window cleaning business - which requires start up costs of less than $100 and can be very lucrative. All takes is a little initiative.

Granted, not very glamorous work, but it will put a roof over your head and food on the table.

In the 20 or so years I have been self employed doing this and that, I have always made enough money for everything I need and most of what I want.

Yeah, working is a highly overrated pastime if you ask me. I don't know why it has become so popular these days, as if people don't have anything better to do with their time, ha. I gave up working back in 1996 when I turned 39 and haven't regretted the day I did so ever since that day. Yeah, at first I didn't know exactly what to do with all that free time on my hand, but eventually I took up numerous hobbies and did a little traveling (spent the first 3.5 years just tooling around the US in an RV). I've managed to also save a lot of money by not working either. I don't have to spend so much on automobile gas to get back and forth to work. I don't have to spend money on suits and dry cleaning. I don't have to spend so much eating lunch out every day. And, best of all, I don't have to take orders from another humon, ha. Try it, quite slaving, let your savings work for you instead, and kick back and enjoy these last few years before 2012 rolls around and dooms us all.

If you enjoy what you do , you'll never have to work a day in your life.

Geez, I can understand not wanting to work but feeling sorry for your self is not the solution. Playing video games all day is no the answer.

If you have an alternative for not wanting to work, I'd like to hear about it.
Even in the the animal kingdon critters have a daily routine if they wish to survive.

reply to post by inthesticks



You are right. There are many ways ti earn money that does not consist of a 9 to 5. But as things get tighter it will become more challenging. My husband always thought that because he knew so many contractors that he could earn a living working for them if he ever lost his job, well guess what the contractors are suffering and do not need any help. But he is mowing, and picking up other odd stuff but I do fear that people will get to the point that they will not be able to afford having their yard mowed or whatever. Some of the people he has been doing work for just found out that due to the state budget cuts they will be loosing their state jobs, so there goes some more of his sources. We just have to keep plugging. Like I said we are putting out a big garden and will put as much of it up as possible, hey its a way to feed your family when you cannot earn a check.

Originally posted by miragezero
I enjoy working. :-) I don't understand people who just want to be unemployed even if you can "survive". You can get ahead it just won't be instant and if you don't agree... don't do anything but sit there and complain about it till it (doesn't) fall in your lap.

See this is from 1927:

In a 1927 interview with the magazine Nation’s Business, Secretary of Labor James J. Davis provided some numbers to illustrate a problem that the New York Times called “need saturation.” Davis noted that “the textile mills of this country can produce all the cloth needed in six months’ operation each year” and that 14 percent of the American shoe factories could produce a year’s supply of footwear. The magazine went on to suggest, “It may be that the world’s needs ultimately will be produced by three days’ work a week.”

www.orionmagazine.org...

Please read again what I posted. Almost all our work is useless. We are in a pyramid scheme. Need a new organization.
3% of the workforce works in agriculture, and they produce enough to export.
I am sure that using modern machines - food, and clothes can be provided for all working in turns for 8 years max each - that includes making the machines. Meaning you work for 8 years max, then you have free food and clothes for the rest of your life. Now just learn how to make wine and party forever Shelter - will have all the time in the world to build some house.And you will be helped by neighbors, you help them too, there is no more that feeling of "he is a possible competitor" when looking at another person. There will be competitions between regions or cities , people bored of too much sitting around will say "let's build that or that, show the people over the hill what we can do !". But people will not just sit or party, each would follow his hobby, do what he likes, invent new stuff, and so on. All the scientists and inventors, look at Einstein, did they "work" or just did what they liked ? People working today do not want to invent new ways for more efficient work. They could become useless. So if a worker somewhere in a specific situation knows that he could become useless, he will not talk about improvements for that specific situation. The system makes us do this, and some still say "more work, more work !". More useless work they mean.

And people will be free to travel, food will be everywhere just not cooked. There could be some trading if you want some "services" when you travel. But with no money. Money must be banned , Stalin style. They lead to people taking from nature more than they need, then they lead to what we have now again. People are not "evil" by nature. Look at some Buddhist monastery, not all there are "enlightened", but they behave good among themselves because their organization is good. Same as my system they have free food. People will adapt and defend the new system even more than the current one.

I say all this is possible. For it to happen, must make people think about it. One day the current system will fall on it's own, and if there still is a planet on which to live, people will organize like that, and understand the problems of money and capitalism and "work for all", and do not start on that path again.

I have a job right now. Not that hard work, but boring and useless, leaves me with little free time and only serves the pyramid scheme in which we are all caught.
I don;t understand all of you who say "I will be bored with no job". You can always do what you want, do you need a master for that ? There is nothing you want to do, so you want to be a slave ?

Maybe you like your work, in my system nobody stops you from doing what you like, look here:

4 year old Abir sleeps in the workshop, on the outskirts of the Bangladeshi capital Dhaka, where he and his mother recycle batteries

www.zoriah.net...
There are many like that child. 3 billion people live on less than 2.5$ a day. There is no need for this. There is enough food - so why is there a "need" for a 4 year old to recycle batteries ?
3 other threads I opened :

"Work for All"
The Lakota way of life
Why capitalism can never work










[edit on 20-4-2009 by pai mei]

Originally posted by pai mei
I say all this is possible.

I totally agree. BUT, for this to happen, we need to first get rid of this fiat money system.

Here is why most have to work so damn much: You're constantly being ROBBED!

What? I'll explain.

Those of you that are old enough, can you recall what you were earning for an hours wage 30 years ago? Not much compared to todays average wage, huh? But I do recall that 30 years ago that wage I earned for an hours worth of work was enough to buy a fast food lunch, a loaf of bread, and gallon of milk. Now, why is it that if I took that hour wage worth of fiat money and stuck it in a mattress back then and took it out today I couldn't even buy lunch with it, let along that loaf of bread and gallon of milk? I'll tell you why: because playing with fiat money allows the PTB to continually devalue it's worth, thus robbing and keeping you enslaved .. year after year .. until you are too old to work any longer.

If we worked for gold instead, or some other form of payment that couldn't be devalued and robbed from us, I'd be willing to bet we all could retire after 15 or 20 years of working 40 hour weeks. But, because we are being continually robbed, through this devaluing game the PTB plays with fiat money, it doesn't matter how frugal you are, or how much you try to save for a rainy day, they can instantly ROB you of your EARNED wealth simply by inflating the money supply .. just like they have majorly done during these last 12 months!

If you want to get ahead, DO NOT keep your wealth, your saving, in FIAT/FUNNY money. Instead of putting CASH into your savings account, which simply doesn't and never will pay enough interest to maintain its value, convert it to something that the PTB can't deflate and devalue. Imagine that instead of putting that $250 in the bank 30 years ago you had bought an once of gold with it and stuff it in a safety deposit box.

What I want to see is a currency that is capable of retaining its value. When I put an hours wage in the bank today, I want to make sure it can still buy the same things 30 years from now as it was worth 30 years ago when it was earned. If my hour of labor 30 years ago was worth lunch, a loaf of bread, and a gallon milk, back when it was earned, I expect it to be worth the same today, or more .. NOT LESS.

Enough of this ROBBING and TAXING us to death. Our fiat money system is really what enslaves us all and THAT needs to be STOPPED and FIXED if we ever hope to get ahead. Fiat money is a SUCKERS currency used to keep us all enslaved. FACT!

We're screwed.

happy birthday to you,
happy birthday to you,
you look like a monkey
and you smell like one too.

Im coming to the understanding that the Federal or U.S Government doesnt want Americans to be making money the easy way.

It seems they dont think mind power is just as good as slave labor, which in my opinion is. If its hard mind work youre doing however.

I guess this is just another tool to keep sheeple as, sheeple?

This reminds me of Orwell's book 1984.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

reply to post by Divinorumus

I am for a no money system as I described it above. Reward ? Free food healthcare and clothes for the rest of your life ? Want more ? You are free to work for more, gather more people who want the same thing and do it. Simple.
The ones in power would hate a no money system. Who will cook their food ? Who will get all they want , if they are not happy with food, shelter, clothes and freedom ?

Money makes people take from the environment more than they need. We turn the planet into money. Also helps the money master enslave people. Money system at work :



See here, people who lived very well with no money:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I am not against technology. But we can copy their organization.

www.ascentofhumanity.com...

Other studies worldwide, as well as common sense, suggest that the !Kung were not exceptional. In more lush areas life was probably even easier. Moreover, much of the "work" spent on these twenty hours of subsistence activities was by no means strenuous or burdensome. Most of the men's subsistence hours were spent hunting, something we do for recreation today, while gathering work was occasion for banter and frequent breaks.
Primitive small-scale agriculturalists enjoyed a similar unhurried pace of life. Consider Helena Norberg-Hodge's description of pre-modern Ladakh, a region in the Indian portion of the Tibetan Plateau.iii Despite a growing season only four months long, Ladakh enjoyed regular food surpluses, long and frequent festivals and celebrations, and ample leisure time (especially in winter when there was little field work to do). This, despite the harsh climate and the (proportionately) enormous population of non-working Buddhist monks in that country's numerous monasteries! More powerfully than any statistic, Norberg-Hodge's video documentary Ancient Futures conveys a sense of the leisurely pace of life there: villagers chat or sing as they work, taking plenty of long breaks even at the busiest time of the year. As the narrator says, "work and leisure are one."

And still some say "all our work is useful" with all our technology. No it's not. We do stuff just to produce more garbage, buy, throw, build again buy again. Else we have no jobs. We are crazy.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by pai mei]

I find the same annoying responses when it comes to my friends who are high school dropouts. Now, do I encourage dropping out of high school? No, and it isn’t a choice I would have made. However, sometimes when I tell people about a friend who didn't finish high school (or who has no interest in the education system) they assume my friend is good for nothing and is stupid. On the contrary, a lot of them are very intelligent people who work hard. You don't have to be educated in the school system to be smart or successful or to "matter" to your society. Those are myths I get tired of. Yes, the reality is things are usually far easier for those who choose the education route, but I'm not going to judge those who do not, and I’m not going to stereotype them as being stupid or lazy.

I feel the same way about people who do not have jobs. There are a variety of people in the US who are not working, for a whole host of reasons. Nothing is black and white; you can’t generalize people that way. People, and most of their situations, are not “simple”. So, you have to look at issues like these with an open mind, despite all the things that have been drilled into your head since you entered this world.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I deal with that fairly frequently. I dropped out in 9th grade, so when someone asks where I went to college and I say "I left school when I was 16" the conversation usually gets awkward and ends quickly. The fact that I'm currently a Pharmacy Tech soon to be Pharmacy student with roughly 80% of my schooling paid for by my employer because of my devotion and understanding of the field means nothing. I'm still just a useless dropout. There's a whole rant of a post I made here about schooling in America.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


That's a great thinking. Work or no work is up to one's decision. I believe everyone have our own idea of how we want our life whether it is society-induced or personal philosophy or dreams. I always believe in all good discussions, what you do is to present what you feel is right to you, allowing your ideas to reach out but there is no real need to convince our prove others wrong.

And we really gotta admit as a collective that we are in no way evolved enough to be a no-work system civilization. Same with court justice and religions, and yes they do make mistake in judgment but surely their benefits outweigh the mistakes, they just need refinement continuously.

I do understand and agreeable about spending job-time on more creative use but they are some who can't afford to do that. If you can, go do it, if not slog out in jobs, it can be a fun chore depending on how you would like to see it. There's no right or wrong.

I just read a little from "The Continuum Concept" written by Jean Liedloff

www.continuum-concept.org...

She spent a few years with some native people from Venezuela. She saw how nobody was ordering others around. Even a child at age 11 was allowed to decide for himself if to stay with her and the crew or go home with the others from his tribe. . Nobody forced his will on him. Even if he was far for the tribe and stayed for 3 days with them alone.

The same thing I remember from when I was a child , living in a village and I was out all day with my friends there. Nobody in our group ordered another around. Maybe we asked someone to do some stuff but if he said "no" that was it. If someone did not want to go somewhere, or wanted to go somewhere, we respected his decision. No "orders". It would have destroyed the entire natural relation between us, based on play and respect. This relation is still present today in any group of friends. Then "civilization" comes in , orders and threats linked to those orders appear, and life is no longer "play" as it should be , can be and still is for some tribes, life becomes "hard work to survive".

Free people naturally form tribes/groups of friends. But today these last only a few years. If "civilization" would not intervene they would last for millions of years. Tribes still gather in the weekends to be together. But they do not function as tribes anymore. Even in such a group of adult friends the ones that do not "work" are seen as "inferior", and everything else. Remember how as children we valued the ones that did not obey the rules of this civilization. "Pirates" ?

The paradox is resolved when we realize that play is serious! Our culture assumes play to be puerile or frivolous, undeserving of the attention of serious, adult matters. Yet when we observe children at play we find in them the whole range of human emotions and attachments: laughter, yes, but solemnity too, and passion. Children, at least, take their play very seriously. The forms of recreation that masquerade these days as adult play are but pale imitations of it, sops to the spirit. They are not creative but dissipative; they don't engage us more fully in life but rather, in the guise of "entertainment", remove us from life. Whether sports cars, sailboats, or video games, we don't genuinely believe in our toys.

In our own culture, play is typically conceived to be the realm of children. The Puritan streak in our culture views it as a luxury, an indulgence, which is okay to allot to children in small amounts as long as they have finished their "work" (schoolwork, homework, housework, etc.) On the more tolerant side of the spectrum, play is okay as long as it is "educational": hence the numerous toys and games directed at young children which seek to smuggle in the alphabet, numbers, or other "cognitive skills". To echo the Darwinian explanation of animal play as a means to hone hunting skills, play is good because it is practice for life. Play purely for play's sake is a waste of time, a view based on the purpose-of-life-is-to-survive assumption that underlies modern science and economics. After all, every minute spent playing is a lost opportunity to get ahead in life.

Either way, eventually we grow up and there is no more time for play. Now, the grim business of real life begins. Oh sure, maybe we can "afford" to play in our "time off"; that is, the time left remaining to us after we have met the demands of survival. But unless we are extremely wealthy, we believe, the bulk of our time and energy must go toward work.

www.ascentofhumanity.com...

The consumer model is written into the very foundations of the modern classroom. Gatto writes: "Schools build national wealth by tearing down personal sovereignty, morality, and family life." These things are precisely the social and spiritual capital whose conversion into money was discussed in Chapter Four. It is not just that the broken and stupefied child is unable to stand up for himself in the workplace or to resist his role as a standardized cog in the vast automaton of industrial society; it is that relationships themselves, and all the previously non-monetized functions and exchanges associated with them, have been objectified, depersonalized, and commoditized.

www.ascentofhumanity.com...


[edit on 25-6-2009 by pai mei]

Great thread pai mei, and it gives me hope that at least there are others that are sick and tired of being slaves to the system only to end up broke and stuck. So much waste going on that its ashame.
Sure, i am guilty of some, but its a part you cant totaly escape yet....

I bust my butt every week at work, literaly, physical job, i move about 30K of freight a night.. come home hurting and tired, work nights , then i get a nap and am up most the day watching the little one while the other half works.. and then take a nap for me to go back to work...
and what do we get for it? a roof over our head, power, piece of crap cars that i dont trust to go out of town because i dont have the cash to fix, a empty freezer most the time....

We enslave our self and for what? honely what true reward do we get from work?

Personaly my goal is to buy some land.. (which at this rate is not going to happen for a LONG time) Build a eco friendly house on it.. such as simon did..
www.simondale.net...

and put up solar and alternative heat, work a few days a week to cover taxes and stuff we actualy need and then enjoy life again..

We kill our self chasing the all mighty dollar and miss out on so much.

families are suffering because of work.. how many kids grow up staying by them self at home, not realy getting to know their parents until its to late and they are teenagers and headed to their own direction already.

There has to be a better way... time we all get back to basics and enjoy what it is to be alive again, rather than struggle to buy all the things people tell us are enjoyable.



EDIT:

The question is what are all the people going to do when there is no work, and when the unemployment runs out?
Anyone thinking ahead about this?
become homeless, sure go ahead, and the police will arrest you for vagrancy, or trespassing, how will you get food, water, shelter... what will you do to help your family survive when you yourself cant do anything..

I think we need to get organized.. yea i know i'll get bashed for this.. but lets think ahead... each country, each state people working together...
So say all that are concerned and pay atention in say my state, montana, start a group, pool what funds there are and buy land.. after all, without some place safe to go to rest, what are you going to do.
With land you can build shelter, you can grow food, you can survive without all the trinkets of society.
But step one organize, step 2 work towrds buying land so all that end up homeless after the unemployment runs out has some place to go.

Probably far fetched and would never happen, but we all know times are going to get much harder in the coming months and possibly even years.. as a group just like in the past people can split up the work and survive, by your self, what do you have.

ok, just my therorie of how to get out of the mess we are facing.. as well as a way to get back to basics. bash away

[edit on 25-6-2009 by severdsoul]

When it comes to "work" the last thing on my mind is making money or getting "ahead". Money is an afterthought, some silly thing that i need to occasionally gather tiny amounts of to recirculate.

Think about it, the "money" just goes back and forth. Today you hold it, tomorrow i might have it, and yesterday someone else had it. It'll come and go, back and forth, and here's the "important" part:

ALL THE TIME, ENERGY, RESOURCES devoted to keeping track of an imaginary symbol could be put to use doing something useful, like making sure EVERYBODY is fed, clothed, and sheltered, NO exceptions, and ESPECIALLY not excepting and excluding those without a handful of "permission to survive" notes issued by the government.

Think of how many armies of bankers, bookkeepers, managers, accountants, analysts, brokers, and on and on spend their 40-80 man-hours on just keeping track of money.

Now, to keep track of all the "money", the keeper-tracker types mentioned previously need infrastructure, stuff like massive buildings to contain the econo-armies. They need heating, cooling, lighting, pens, pencils, staplers, silly ties, and all manner of ridiculous things to keep track of money.

That's not counting the labor resources of the ancillary functions of the infrastructure, such as "human resource" department workers, and how about this, payroll? Now we've got more wasted energy because we need people to keep track of the money paid to the people who keep track of money.

And if that wasn't bad enough, some middle management nobody walks into the restroom, unzips, and misses, and pees on the wall and the floor. No worries though, the janitor will clean it up, right?

The people who get paid the big bucks to keep track of who gets paid the big bucks have more important things to worry about than peeing exactly where the toilet is, or cleaning up after themselves after peeing where they wished the toilet was. Another army of janitors and mantainence people are now needed to reposition toilets and scrub up more important peoples' peestains.

And i STILL didn't even touch on the waste of resources that goes into the rest of what facilitates the keeper-tracker-of-money peoples. That's just one example. Every large industry basically has a whole chain of people to keep track of and clean up after one another, kind of like having an army of babysitters for the ones deemed too successful to have to do real life things like pee on target or clean up after yourself.

Add in the mailroom, cafeteria, and logistics people, as well as all the physical resources it takes to run such an operation, plastic, paper, and power. Could you think of a better way to utilize all of the aforementioned resources and manpower than wasting it on keeping track of something that don't exist?

Economics IS religion, it's a tool of control based on the solid belief of the intangible, believing in fiat currency is the same as belief in god. Belief amkes it work, be it spirituality or economy. If all catholics stopped believing in god, there'd be no Vatican, the same as if the "consumers" all stopped believing in the dollar, There'd be no wall street. (Spirituality is not religion, religion is like the banking institutions of spirituality.) I'd actually venture to say that god is more real than money in this respect, as we KNOW that money is not real but we dutifully believe and worship the dollar-god.

I've got more work than a couple people can handle, and offers that 10 of my clones couldn't fill. I decide what i want to do though, and i base my decision of where to work on passion and skill required for the task.

For a few years i did live off the ocean, sailing around the Caribbean, diving for fish, picking coconuts and fruits, and having LOTS of time left over to just enjoy the natural world and to be a harmonious part of it.

Returning to civilization was like being sentenced to prison. The freedom i had was gone and i was expected to accept being part of the chain-gang. Now as i do live on the fringes of society, i'm not bound by most of the trappings and shackles of oppression that weigh heavy on most of you. I'm one decision and a few hundred yards from just walking away into the wilderness to once again live with nature, but the love i have for my work keeps me slightly attached to some small part of civilization. I'm a highly skilled chef, mechanic, and artist. I could make millions with ease, but there's just no point to playing the money game.

God(G)=could exist
Aliens(AL)="god probability"(GP)
Underpants gnomes(UG)=remote possibility involving quantum states of matter and superposition
Money($)

G-(AL*GP-UG)=x
x>$


So, in conclusion i refer to the above formula which proves mathematically that money isn't real, and that underpants gnomes that plague an alien civilization that submits to a higher being have a considerably higher probability of reality than fiat currency.

E=mc2? Pfft,,,,

G-(AL*GP-UG)=x
x>$

YOu can always go live in the woods.... sigh.

im not joking. Go live in the woods. find your own food and build a shelter.