Buffalo plane crash

reply to post by TheWelder


Yup....Welder....."Flaps 15" would be a setting for flaps, at about 15 degrees.

Depending on the airplane, maximum flaps might be 30 to 40 degrees....the DC-10 had a 50 degree flap setting.

Airbus.....they use a different term....hate to say it, but it is a dumbed-down concept.

Real jets, such as a Boeing.....have flaps and slats......(so do Airbus).

A Q-400, or what used to be known as a deHavilland dash-8.....does not need leading-edge slats.....

reply to post by ConservativeJack


You know, I was thinking the same thing about the "Brother" as well.

These people were a little bit too focused and eloquent during an emergency. I understand it's a nice neighborhood, probably with a very good school system, but the "calm and collected" reactions were a bit odd.

You also have to love the MSM flashing "Is air travel safe?!?" constantly.
Is this a PRS scenario, a washout of the CSPAN reactions to the "Stimulus" bill, or just a whole lot of attention to a relatively minor accident?

(In no way am i trying to downplay the value of human life, just questioning the motivations behind the MSM to give massive airtime to a semi-regular occurance)

reply to post by systemic.aberration


systemic....it is a MSM addiction, as I've said before....the maxim is "If it bleeds, it leads"

Plane crashes, bus crashes, multi-car pile-ups....train wrecks....

It is the 'rubber-neck' mentality.....shame.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


ty weedwhacker for your contributions to this thread and for helping me to better understand the situation

i love ats because professionals like yourself are here and willing to share

tyvm i appreciate your help

Thanks weedwacker. Glad you got the info out while I was trying to do so on the other thread. This accident will probably be blamed on weather conditions.

What really gets me is how CNN throws the spotlight on the 3 most seemingly important people even though all 49 passengers died. This is a real tragedy and I send out the best regards to all associated with the killed.
I don't know if this is anything but when I read about a 9/11 widow being killed in a plane crash and then mentioned I get a little iffy.
Either way here is something interesting and I am not saying that it has anything to do with the crash but only that it gets me thinking so I looked her up.


The 9/11 widow Beverly Eckert says in a article:

I've chosen to go to court rather than accept a payoff from the 9/11 victims compensation fund. Instead, I want to know what went so wrong with our intelligence and security systems that a band of religious fanatics was able to turn four U.S passenger jets into an enemy force, attack our cities and kill 3,000 civilians with terrifying ease.

I want to know why two 110-story skyscrapers collapsed in less than two hours and why escape and rescue options were so limited. I am suing because unlike other investigative avenues, including congressional hearings and the 9/11 commission, my lawsuit requires all testimony be given under oath and fully uses powers to compel evidence.

Source

Maybe she was getting into something a little too deep?...
Either way its somewhat interesting.

Even more interesting is that there was no mayday call before crashing.




[edit on 13-2-2009 by N3krostatic]

While I was not shocked to learn of this tragic situation, I am saddened.
Of course first for the families of the ones in the crash. Sad to see this story in such a contrast to the one of the crash on the Hudson River!
My family lived back there for many years. I have flown into several NY & NJ airports many times over the last 15 years.

It does not seem stange that since September 11th, there has now been some small fear in the back of my mind about flying into these airports!

There was an extra passenger on board. An off-duty pilot. I'm not accusing him/her of anything, but I do remember an incident from many years back. An off-duty pilot tried to take over a passenger jet and crash it. There was a long and violent fight in the cockpit, and only a miracle saved them from crashing. The story was featured in one of those "Seconds from disaster" (or similar) tv-shows.


BBC: Plane crash in NY state kills 50

reply to post by Hellmutt


I remember that show. But had this scenario happened, don't you think it would have been on the CVR? Or do you believe that the NTSB would withhold that info?

reply to post by N3krostatic


Sometimes there's no time for even a 'Mayday'....the appropriate term is to announce 'mayday, mayday, mayday'....three times.

Another aviation term, not well known, is 'Pan, Pan, Pan'....not a mayday, but a plea for assistance.

Another point of information....."MayDay" is actually French, written into English....it is the phrase 'help me'.....

Using 'MayDay' assumes you have time, and are not busy with the emergency.

IF this airplane was on the ILS, just 'cleared' for the approach....and just outside the Outer Marker....then it would have been at about 2,000 feet above the ground.

The Glideslope on an ILS is about 3 degrees. The Outer Marker is roughly 2.8 miles from the end of the runway.

This airplane crashed, and it is sad. I hate to see this....but, that is why we have DFDRs and CVRs....in order to ascertain what happened, when the pilots are killed......

[edit on 2/13/0909 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by BlasteR


Chris -

First off I am so happy that your flight landed successfully in bad weather. And, yes I am sure everyone on that plane was praying. I gave you a star for your good heart in callilng the pilot of your flight and telling him "Thank you". I am sure it meant so much to him and only took a moment of your time.


Peace to you
Grandma

Another passenger:

www.nytimes.com...

Alison L. Des Forges, a historian who documented the 1994 genocide in Rwanda and was an authority on human rights abuses in Central Africa, was a passenger on Continental Airlines Flight 3407 when it crashed near Buffalo on Thursday night, killing all 49 people on board. She was 66.

The death was announced by Human Rights Watch, the New York-based advocacy group where Dr. Des Forges, who lived in Buffalo, served as senior adviser for its Africa division.

this is an interesting coincidence- 9-11 hard-to-silence activist dies in a crash, soon after meeting with Obama - what did she want from him?

reply to post by Hellmutt


HellMutt...the incident you're referring to....is when a disgruntled (I use that term a lot) pilot for Federal Express actually rode on the the jumpseat, as emploees can do, and wished to use this benefit to exact revenge.

We saw this back in 1987. we saw it again 1992.

Look....this SHOULD have warned the White House....the PDB....Obama bin Laden is determened to strike into America....THIS was given to PRESIDENT Bush, back in August 2001......moron can't seem to read...doesn't know his right hand from his left....idiot in chief, THATS what we had for eight years!!!!

reply to post by Sergeant Stiletto


PLEASE, PLEASE realize that Continental Airlines, as many Airlines, use feeder companies, and they operate under the 'flag' name.....

Continental Airlines flies these airplanes.....the B-737, the B-757, the B-767 and the B-777


OTHER airplanes are flown under an entirely different system, under contract!!~!!


Need to know stuff.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


flaps 1 (1+F) ,2 , 3 and full are the settings on the 320


Position Slats Flaps Ecam Indication
0 0 0
1 18 0 1
1 18 10 1+F
2 22 15 2
3 22 20 3
Full 27 40 Full

[edit on 14/2/09 by Harlequin]

I found this flight tracker a few months ago, any way this is the flight path of the 3407 plane. Shows a lot of storm activity.

flightaware.com...
They also show the last recorded elevation at 5300ft traveling at 207kts, that was at 10:11, so it only took that place 1 minute to drop that far? (the #s 42.84-78.42 are the latitude and longitude respectively)

10:11PM 42.84 -78.42 207 5300 Cleveland Center


FLIGHTAWARE BREAKING NEWS

Colgan #3407 (a De Havilland Dash 8-400) from Newark, NJ (EWR) to Buffalo, NY (BUF) crashed into a home southwest of the airport last night (February 12, 2009) around 10:12pm EST, approximately 52 minutes after takeoff from Newark.

The flight was operating as a "Continental Connection" flight. Media reports are that 44 passengers, five crew members, and a person on the ground have died. The aircraft can seat as many as 74 passengers, only 44 were on board.

The flight departed approximately 2 hours late. Reason for delay unknown.

The aircraft registration is reported to be N200WQ (sn 4200), certified in April of 2008.

At 9:45pm EST, weather reports for the Buffalo airport indicated overcast skies at 2700 feet and visibility 3 in mist (more).

This is the first fatal airline crash in the US in 2.5 years, previous was Comair 5191 in Lexington, Kentucky (August 2006).**

The haunting words keep echoing through Jeff Smith's mind.

"For the sake of your children I wouldn't get on that flight," a Continental Airlines flight attendant told him.

About an hour later, that flight, Continental 3407, from Newark, N.J., to Buffalo that was supposed to have carried Smith, 39, his wife Kathleen and their two children, Paddon, 7 and Tanner, 4, crashed just short of the Buffalo airport in Clarence, N.Y., killing everyone on board.

Ref, family bumped at last minute

Wanted to share that with you guys. I'm glad they took the attendants advice, she wouldn't know how right she was going to be. I hope they spend Valentines Day together and appreciate how fortunate they were.