I'd like to know what Christians think of my lifestyle, debate NOT idiocy!

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


Yeah I agree with those examples. What my point is is that whether or not christians took on those beliefs or traditions or whatever at some point in time has no bearing on the message of jesus christ. It's like christmas wrap. You tear it off and toss it out to get to the "gift" inside. Christianity has a lot of layers, but it's worth opening.

reply to post by justamomma


You are a very wise person, and star for you You have many good things you can teach people. An open mind can go a very long way.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by heyo

 

I would say "shame on you".. but, it is the truth. It is not hidden *at all* where many of the holidays originated.. not to mention.. Jesus is the image of a man being worshiped; idolized; prayed to; and offered to.

Christianity (as we know it) separates families and forces morals rather than Truth learned through experience onto people. It takes the precious Laws of G.d and reflects them at others rather than at themselves. The Laws were not meant to guilt others... they were meant as an understanding of what one learned through experiences and the help to apply that knowledge to oneself.

Christianity has done more for the violence in this world than any other religion, save Islam of course. Still, I personally think Christianity far exceeds the violence done on this planet than Islam has.

Wicca... though I think it is pointless personally.. has done little to contribute to the hatefulness, greed, and violence... IMHO.

Whoever sees the son sees the father.....

without things like that christianity wouldn't be for me...It's like God is the cornerstone of Jesus...

"Jesus is the image of a man being worshipped". That's a little vague could you elaborate?

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

Yeah I agree with those examples. What my point is is that whether or not christians took on those beliefs or traditions or whatever at some point in time has no bearing on the message of jesus christ. It's like christmas wrap. You tear it off and toss it out to get to the "gift" inside. Christianity has a lot of layers, but it's worth opening.

You can get into a life long debate about that! Im not denying jesus christ existed. And according to what was written, he was a wise man, and had many good teachings. But, does it NOT seem to you, that many traditions and beliefs have been remodeled and past on as THIS religion or THAT religion? Paganism is OLD..it is the surrounded in the first goddess beliefs, earth based, and season based beliefs. The American Indians also have a paganistic view on life. There is no hatred, or judging, only letting you choose to look inside yourself, for YOU are the only judge of YOU!

In christianity there is a person that comes to earth with power in any form or shape he comes back over again, he is here on earth to create peace, and to show people love for the world.....it is kinda verrry much the same from my opinion, just diluted with nonsence over the years......if animals kill animals and we are just animals...then how come its not the same for humans...If there was one true religion dont you think animals would follow it as well, after all we are just the same

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch
reply to post by justamomma

 

You are a very wise person, and star for you

You have many good things you can teach people. An open mind can go a very long way.

The Tanakh (aka "old" Testament) never taught us to tear down the gods of other people. Personally, I think that G.d reveals Himself differently to the people.. so long as noone is worshiping anything in heaven and earth, but rather that "LIFE" force in us... then personally, I have not a problem with it.

Anything that requires your blind faith in it to keep you from hell is false (hell merely meant death... and "fire/burning" simply means trials.. nothing more). G.d is not a mean G.d. He is... simply Life... the christians perceived Him as such (mean) because they were jealous of the covenant with Israel... and really, they just misunderstood the covenant (as do many of the Jewish today)... it was not about RIGHTS; it was about responsibility to worship G.d in His way so that the rest of the people could live and learn as they so choose.

Sad how it all got screwed up and I would welcome someone who considers themselves a witch in my home before a christian. ONe is honest and the other is a hypocrite... in most cases.. just to clarify.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by CreeWolf
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

I wasn't trying to offend you. My comment about being starved for attention was more or less tongue in cheek. I still fail to see a "Salem Witch-hunt" in modern times.

If anything, our beliefs are very similar when it comes to our respect for nature. Its more or less coming from different angles to the same point.

Stop trying to steal the Christians' thunder. They are the ones "persecuted" these days (along with the Palestinians, blacks, white males, liberals, and conservatives!)

Freedom of religion in the midwest? Look at where I live! I'm in Iowa. I work at an Agricultural Processing Plant with a Jew, an Atheist, and a Protestant in my department. I will not cut my hair because of my "personal beliefs" despite plant "political correctness". I know a lot of Missouri truck drivers and not ONE of them has ever seemed "judgemental".

I'd certainly like more details on how you've been persecuted.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by CreeWolf]

I'm sorry I didnt see your post until now...lol..not offended

Yes, I know you dont see the "Salem Witch Hunt' and not many do, unless they live this way. Sure, I agree, there are MANY others being persecuted, and it is sad. I know this thread is probably futile for solving anything. But at least it lets me know all of "your" views. Sure, we dont live in paradise, none of us.
You only know the people that are open minded..I.E truckdrivers. But, you have to remember, there are many MANY other people living here. The people i BANK with, the teachers at school, the grocery clerks, etc..they ALL find out somehow..rumors travel at the speed of light! I have never been in trouble, I am a law abiding citizen, but that doesnt stop ppl from judging.

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

Yeah I agree with those examples. What my point is is that whether or not christians took on those beliefs or traditions or whatever at some point in time has no bearing on the message of jesus christ. It's like christmas wrap. You tear it off and toss it out to get to the "gift" inside. Christianity has a lot of layers, but it's worth opening.

You can get into a life long debate about that! Im not denying jesus christ existed. And according to what was written, he was a wise man, and had many good teachings. But, does it NOT seem to you, that many traditions and beliefs have been remodeled and past on as THIS religion or THAT religion? Paganism is OLD..it is the surrounded in the first goddess beliefs, earth based, and season based beliefs. The American Indians also have a paganistic view on life. There is no hatred, or judging, only letting you choose to look inside yourself, for YOU are the only judge of YOU!

Yes it's all very complicated i wish it was more mainstream and dicussed. To me, the "religious stacking" isn't really evidence, as satan, or the idea of satan, or whatever name the guy goes by, is older than any religion except the right one (or way, path, whatevs). If I believe in God am I to believe "the enemy" would let the truth be told as clear as day?

And yeah. I think believing you're your only judge borders on arrogance. That particular point is probably the one in which we're the most disagreement. We probably agree on most other things. An amzing thing in relgions are how they all pretend to be the same thing (musingly).

reply to post by justamomma


That is a profound statement you made! And you are right, its sad that things get so twisted! That is not what i intended to prove, but it does come out.

Originally posted by freedomandliberty
In christianity there is a person that comes to earth with power in any form or shape he comes back over again, he is here on earth to create peace, and to show people love for the world.....it is kinda verrry much the same from my opinion, just diluted with nonsence over the years......if animals kill animals and we are just animals...then how come its not the same for humans...If there was one true religion dont you think animals would follow it as well, after all we are just the same

I dont really see the god here on earth to create peace in the Christian religion. He died, was resurrected, and you have to believe that he is there to take away your sins. Am i wrong in that assumption? I dont believe we are animals, but I am not saying that animals are wrong, either. They only have enough knowledge, to know what it is they need to do, life long. They eat, play, mate and enjoy life as it is. Such is, what we should do.

Originally posted by heyo

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

Yeah I agree with those examples. What my point is is that whether or not christians took on those beliefs or traditions or whatever at some point in time has no bearing on the message of jesus christ. It's like christmas wrap. You tear it off and toss it out to get to the "gift" inside. Christianity has a lot of layers, but it's worth opening.

You can get into a life long debate about that! Im not denying jesus christ existed. And according to what was written, he was a wise man, and had many good teachings. But, does it NOT seem to you, that many traditions and beliefs have been remodeled and past on as THIS religion or THAT religion? Paganism is OLD..it is the surrounded in the first goddess beliefs, earth based, and season based beliefs. The American Indians also have a paganistic view on life. There is no hatred, or judging, only letting you choose to look inside yourself, for YOU are the only judge of YOU!

Yes it's all very complicated i wish it was more mainstream and dicussed. To me, the "religious stacking" isn't really evidence, as satan, or the idea of satan, or whatever name the guy goes by, is older than any religion except the right one (or way, path, whatevs). If I believe in God am I to believe "the enemy" would let the truth be told as clear as day?

And yeah. I think believing you're your only judge borders on arrogance. That particular point is probably the one in which we're the most disagreement. We probably agree on most other things. An amzing thing in relgions are how they all pretend to be the same thing (musingly).

I know how you feel. It can be SOOO confusing! How do i believe? And if i believe THIS way, is it right? Will I burn in a pit of fire? How will other people accept me, or perceive how i believe? Is this just a fairy tale? There are so many questions to it all. To me, Christianity , and i DO believe there are many truths in it, was a way to STILL the wandering heart. It's strange if you look back ..

Early Christianity developed in an era of the Roman Empire during which many religions were practiced, that are, due to the lack of a better term, labeled Paganism. The Latin Paganus, similar to the Germanic Heathen, originally simply referred to someone living in a rural area. It obtained its current meaning since the countryside was Christianized later than the cities. In a broader sense the term Pagan may refer to any adherent of a non Abrahamic religion, but it is used here within the scope of those religions that were already in the world before the advent of Christianity.

People were just as confused then. But I say, go with your heart..In Wiccan, we have a rule, or a commandment, and it's pretty simple...Do what you will, but harm none.. Id say..that can go a LONG way without making you feel like you will go to hell in a handbasket!

The majority of us Catholics of the world would be saddened with this. Then we'll just go on about our lives and forget about you.

You know what would be fun is to go to the Republican/redneck/protestant areas of America (known as the bible belt) and tell everyone you're a pagan and that you enjoy Harry Potter.

reply to post by heyo


yes, I will clarify what I meant by the image of Jesus being worshiped. The Tanakh prophecies, first of all, in no way allude to the worship of any one man. They specifically say there is only one G.d who is our Saviour and that is our Creator and it is He that is our Saviour... so, that alone shows that the Christian faith is not in line with what it claims to be based upon.

Also, G.d said He declared everything precisely how it was meant to play out and no mention of a Jesus in there. He said that when the prophecies would be fulfilled, it would be fulfilled exactly how He declared in order for there to be no others coming in and deceiving us. Now, here is where it gets tricky... it does speak of "Jesus" in the sense that he would be used to deceive those who wanted to worship the image rather than G.d. It was the curse brought upon children of Israel.. the ones scattered into the gene pool of the world (not the modern state of)... most of which are Christian. Deutoronomy 27-29 speak of these curses they brought on themselves and the prophecies that they would turn to false gods rather than worshiping the ONE TRUE G.d.

And really, the prophecies that most use to fulfill Jesus with, if they would stick those into context, they would easily see that they are showing you the curse that would be fallen for.. because man loves himself more than G.d. And since it was the covenant with Israel, it is Israel that will be cut off from G.d should they not turn back and it will be, according to the prophecies that you all claim, will be at your hands that the blood for the world be upon.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by justamomma]

so what you are saying is that a whale, the biggest brain in the world is dumber then u or i??? the christian religion is there for peace hence the ten comandments all have to do the the treatment of other and things....there is more than one way to describe peace there is inner peace and then there is a not so selfish peace that is mixed up with everything on this planet...you dont think we are animals lol we are composed of the same material, and we breath eat and sleep....we are a living thing just like anything else, the only thing different is that animals that we fail to communicate with lack the corruption that has partaken in our day to day lives i am mormon but i do not believe it or any other religion at that i believe in a spirit world and i believe that we should be lving off the land in the wild just like every other animal to prevent the earth from self destruction

reply to post by eldard


But , I DO enjoy Harry Potter! Do you really see anything so wrong with it?

if we were not meant to harm anything then we wouldnt and animals wouldnt either because we all need the same thing to survive and we can all survive the same way

Originally posted by freedomandliberty
so what you are saying is that a whale, the biggest brain in the world is dumber then u or i??? the christian religion is there for peace hence the ten comandments all have to do the the treatment of other and things....there is more than one way to describe peace there is inner peace and then there is a not so selfish peace that is mixed up with everything on this planet...you dont think we are animals lol we are composed of the same material, and we breath eat and sleep....we are a living thing just like anything else, the only thing different is that animals that we fail to communicate with lack the corruption that has partaken in our day to day lives i am mormon but i do not believe it or any other religion at that i believe in a spirit world and i believe that we should be lving off the land in the wild just like every other animal to prevent the earth from self destruction

You have a fantastic point! We SHOULD be living that way! And we should love all creatures as we love ourselves, cats, dogs, insects, etc. I only say that, because I feel empathy for them, not because some TEXT told me that. Why cant we live in peace and harmony with ALL creation on this earth, the same way. Yes, sounds like some hippy point of view, but it's the way life SHOULD be. Can we ever achieve that? Shrugs..I dont hold my breath.

reply to post by justamomma


You are very knowledgeable about the Bible. I have a question for you. I have read it, myself, and I'd like to know..in the old testament, why does G.D speak to someone else when he talks about Adam and Eve in the garden and the tree of life. Who is he talking to?

reply to post by justamomma



whoa lot of claims in there! Kind of sounds like intepretation and not fact tho. What prophetic things were demanded that jesus didn't fulfill? What proof is there that Jesus specifically is this guy that is to be used to lead astray? How would the existance of a son be in conflict with the prophecies, specifically? Why is it tricky?

Also, in my bible jesus gives all glory to the father, any power he has he claims is of and by the father. I think God feels worshipped when Jesus is worshipped. I think the very point of Jesus is kind of a tool in a way to get humanity on the right track after the back-stabbing.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by heyo]

reply to post by freedomandliberty

That is why many pagans are vegans. If you want to keep a corpse in your refrigerator, that's up to you. I have to say, Im not totally vegan, I do like a steak now and then, but it DOES make me squeamish to know im eating the flesh of another living creature.
I remember at a Christian church, long ago when I was a child, the preacher talking about that very thing. How the people BEGGED god for food, for more..when he was just raining down mana. That was how they explained our craving for meat.