The true cost of smoking

reply to post by imd12c4funn


Thanks for the laugh.

I gave you a star.

After you watch someone die from the effects of smoking, you may not be laughing quite so much. It take too much of your breath.
''

reply to post by imd12c4funn


More proof of the research quoted : "smokers - that those most likely to indulge in quick-fix, deadly-in-the-long-term behavior are those whose long-term prospects are least promising"

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Or to paraphrase You can show a smoker the facts, but you can't make him think. (wow and it rhymes too) Yeah me!!!

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

reply to post by imd12c4funn


Then why do kids who live with parents who smoke in the house often end up sick?
Why does my mom get horrible asthma attacks when people smoke?
Okay, I looked up some stats. This is what I found. What did you find?

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet

Secondhand smoke ... is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.1

The current Surgeon General’s Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Short exposures to secondhand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack.2


Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).3


Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.4


Secondhand smoke causes almost 50,000 deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year, including approximately 3,400 from lung cancer and 22,700-69,600 from heart disease.5


Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of secondhand smoke in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.6


Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.9


Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 790,000 physician office visits per year.10 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma.11


In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis.12 Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.13


Research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades.14

www.lungusa.org...
(sorry it's a long quote, tried to edit it down but it's good stuff.)

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Ravenshadow: I went on vacation to the Dominican Republic in December - one night we woke up at 5 am coughing - the neighbors were smoking and we had to air the room afterwards. Of course they are smokers and had the right to smoke indoors. Plus they had two small children in the room with them.

Parents should know they have done damage to their children when they smoke around them and they no longer cough.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by RFBurns

 

You seem to lack the ability to read and comprehend.

It's the cost for the uninsured who smoke that ends up being the taxpayers burden. Is that clear?

If you have insurance, as I written before, great go smoke yourself to death.

When you include the health care costs in the true price of smokes it comes up to $40 per pack. Is that what you're paying?

If not someone is subsidizing your habit.

Also, you smoke because your addicted, not because you choose to. If you're not addicted then try to quit.

Well Im so happy you have this magical power to ASSume what I choose to do and what I am addicted to. Is that from your MSM government statistics you read every day that you are addicted to?

Believe what you want to believe. The fact is..your being subsidized by your own insurance companies through other reasons and your gullable to follow the lead lemming to point the finger at the most convienient one to blame for it...except yourself.

Show me a bill where your paying for MY habit..show me where YOUR signature is on MY insurance policy. Show me where YOUR cleared check or reciepts have MY insurance policy numbers on it.

If you can do that..by all means you have a right to pitch a B about my smoking...otherwise...clam it and allow me and millions of other Americans excersise our right to light up.

Those un-insured you speak of....did you factor in the un-insured people who dont smoke that you also pay for their health care...as do I!??

No of course not..cant mention the other side of the coin here when were focusing on just one.

Dont leave out the parts that make up the whole story there friend.

Oh and dont leave out the billions of dollars being spent on freebie health care for all those illegals that are subsidized through your insurance rates that are declared to be the fault of us smokers.



Cheers!!!

(lights up another)

[edit on 29-1-2009 by RFBurns]

reply to post by RFBurns


If you're not addicted, give it up for a month.

My family kept telling me I was addicted to caffeine, so I gave it up for a month.

There was no problem in my life with that.

So, prove that you're not addicted....

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

How about, rather than accusing me of lacking compassion you instead focus on the issue of the true cost of smoking.

Excuse me... But rather than call my suggestions "accusations," let's read what I really wrote. Thank you.

If you are insured then I don't care that you smoke.

Why is that? Your insurance bases what it charges you on what they have to pay... Seems you should care whether the cost is passed to you in taxes or premiums - if you want to get uppity about it to begin with.

If you don't have insurance, then give up the habit so the taxpayers don't have to pay for your "choice".

There is no guarantee that what I do in anything will make me ill. And, as I pointed out, as long as there is payment to be made by others than the ill one, you are bearing the costs.

Don't try to lay your smokers quilt on my doorstep. Just take responsibility for you actions.

Huh? I'm just saying that there are a ton of things we choose (and don't choose) that make us ill. Why single this out? It's a LOT easier to quit Big Macs than cigs.

reply to post by RFBurns


I am starting to doubt you have a university degree. Online I am a supermodel. If you did you would realize that we subsidise smokers because health care cover costs are inflated to cover all those within the scheme who need any of number of expensive treatments. And smokers have a range of diseases that are specific to their choice to smoke. Cancer is not a cheap disease to have, as well as very painful.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by RFBurns

 

If you're not addicted, give it up for a month.

My family kept telling me I was addicted to caffeine, so I gave it up for a month.

There was no problem in my life with that.

So, prove that you're not addicted....

I have quit many times, for employment reasons. And I have also quit many times for personal reasons..like when my kids were born and spent 5 plus years for each of them not lighting up.

My kids are all grown up now and have their own kids, grandpa x 5 now. So dont go ASSume I cant when I have given plenty of time off to not smoking and had no problem with it. Now that I dont have to quit for any reason, I choose to smoke again, and have enjoyed that right to choose since the day I started decades ago.

Thank you very much.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Amaterasu


Then quit both your Big Macs and smoking habits! We will totally support you on both.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by RFBurns

 

I am starting to doubt you have a university degree. Online I am a supermodel. If you did you would realize that we subsidise smokers because health care cover costs are inflated to cover all those within the scheme who need any of number of expensive treatments. And smokers have a range of diseases that are specific to their choice to smoke. Cancer is not a cheap disease to have, as well as very painful.

My degree is in electronics and electrical engineering, what TF does that have to do with health matters or smoking?

Poor...very very poor excuse there.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


I stand corrected.

I love the part about how you've quit many times.

Most smokers have a very difficult time quitting due to the addictive properties on nicotine. I'm glad that you're not affected by it.

Exscuse my intrusion on the matter, but this looks like it's turning into a heated discussion! I was just curiouse, bob, mynah and raven, what is your conspiracy theory in paying taxes for us smokers? Respectively, burns has pointed out that the CDC and MSM have blown the smoke over your eyes (pun not intended) about their information regaurding the general statistics of their reports!

Either way, I respect your views on the matter, but to try to tell smokers to quit, well, it's all in your right to do so. However it is also their right to refuse, and in the end, the meeting point between us smokers and you non smokers is that we are polite as possible about it yes?

Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Then quit both your Big Macs and smoking habits! We will totally support you on both.

A) I eat only organic foods, no beef, no pork. I gave up Big Macs...oh...20 years ago now?

B) I have quit twice, both times gaining 40+ pounds. MUCH more unhealthy, with the stress of quitting added in, than my 7-10 cigs a day.

I lost over 100 pounds, but I can assure you, it happened while smoking.

So I'll keep my cigs, thank you very much.

reply to post by LeTan


My apologies to anyone that I've offended.

Yes, I've lost family members to smoking.

My brother is a smoker and I'm afraid that I'll lose him as well.

I guess that I'm a bit touchy on this subject.

As to the conspiracy angle... It's the true cost of smoking on society vs the actual price that you pay at a store. You've got growers that profit, manufacturers that profit all on an addictive substance. A substance that to my knowledge is the only one that is legal that when used according to directions produces terrible health issues on the users. Yet we as a society help to subsidize the cost to smoke.

You said..."OK, why not make smokers pay for their own health care by paying extra for their insurance?"

I have a better idea...tax cigarettes and put that tax toward the perils and costs of smoking. Simple huh??? However, the state alone instead taxes a carton (20 packs, 400 cigarettes) at about $13.50. Where does that money that every smoker pays go??? In PA, it goes to insuring children who don't have insurance. While that is a wonderful cause...it isn't what taxes were meant for. If you tax something under the premise that using it costs others money...then use the darn money to cover those expenses.

That is part of the problem today. A wonderful example (which I don't have the link for) was that town that put up cameras at a four-way stop light, only to remove them later cause people started stopping at the light...therefore costing the county a few million in traffic tickets.

That is the mentality now. They tax us for one reason and then line their pockets (or pay their salary...same thing) with the income. And now, that the income is relied upon...if everyone were to quit smoking (for example) where does that money come from. Knock-knock-knock...got some extra cash???

[edit on 1/29/2009 by WeAreAWAKE]

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


I like that idea.

Put a sin tax on smokes to cover the heath related costs.

You could apply this to other activities that are unhealthy as well like big macs and/or alcohol. I do drink wine but I don't do big macs.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by RFBurns

 

I stand corrected.

I love the part about how you've quit many times.

Most smokers have a very difficult time quitting due to the addictive properties on nicotine. I'm glad that you're not affected by it.

Not only have I choosen to quit for my kids sake when they were little babies and growing up, I quit for job reasons because of the chemicals I had to work with in the clean rooms making IC chips for Texas Instruments back in Odessa Tx. And I didnt smoke when I was hired out at WSMR NM back in 81 working on extremely volitile stuff there.

Several years ago after my daughter grew up and moved out on her own, I was smoking up to 2 packs a day. You know what I decided to do?...I choose to cut that down to 1 pack every 3 days, and achieved that goal within the first week of deciding to do that.

Now I go through 1 pack every 4 days, and sometimes that pack will go byond 4 days.

Its a matter of priorities and will power...sorry to say some people just dont have that ability and can quit on a dime as can others. Those folks have an addiction problem. Perhaps its not because of their choice either, perhaps its because of the hell they are going through in thier lives and as anyone who has done the research, nicotine calms the nerves.

I have seen people who would never touch a cig end up lighting up because of excessive stress brought upon their lives, and am amazed at how much they end up smoking in the long run and cant seem to quit. And I have seen some who light up, have been doing so for years, and decide one day to kick the habit and go through severe withdraw and end up smoking again.

Point is it affects people differently.

But if you really want to know why insurance is so outragious, it is NOT only because of un-insured smokers. There are far more other reasons as to why your insurance bills are so high, for one...you and I right now are paying to cover the costs of the freebie health care given to illegals that tromp across that boarder and pop out babies left and right, ya we foot the bill for that. We pay for the emergency calls and ambulance rides and hospital bills from the wreck caused by that drunk driver who just smashed that mini-van full of grade school kids comming home from soccer practice.

We pay for the health care in the free clinics to teen pregnancies and abortions and all those planned parenthood sessions. We pay for higher rates because those who preach about clean air and good health go to doctors over every piddly belly ache and the bill doesnt even come close to your deductable. We pay for all those law suits over new medicines that people just gladly dump down their throats only to see the law suits filed against the drug company because of some recall over serious medical side affects of those new drugs.

Face it, the world's problems are not the fault of the smoker. Thats just a fact and unfortunately, you non smokers are not the only ones footing the bill so please spare us the sob story stroke here. Us smokers pay the costs too..in more ways than one...just as the non smokers do.




Cheers!!!!

(lights up another)

reply to post by LeTan


Not really a conspiracy theory, but as I said, if someone smokes and does not have insurance and needs to receive medical treatment for a heart attack or heart failure, the hospital (if it receives government spending) has to see that person and give them treatment. The hospital's funding comes directly from the government, which gets most if it's money from tax payers.

I think that's accurate. I'm personally not criticizing you all who smoke unless you're blind and think that there are no risks involved. I'm criticizing people who don't have health insurance who smoke and expect to be treated (and since statistics show a large number of smokers are young and a majority are in a lower income bracket, many smokers would be faced with the issues of having little or no insurance). Also, many smokers are on MedicAid, which is funded by the federal and state governments. I don't have the information on where that money exactly comes from, but I know that there have been cases in the past trying to reduce the spending of tax payer's money by cutting back MedicAid.

Does that seem accurate to you?

[edit on 1/29/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by RFBurns


I'm also strongly against social services for people that are in my country illegally.

Post 911 I don't think that any people should be here who don't have a right to be here period.

They should not be able to get jobs, housing and their offspring should not be citizens (anchor babies). You found another one of my touchy subjects.

If the economy of Mexico crashes, the immigration rush over the border will get much worse.