Gary McKinnon, Honeynets and Disinformation

I initially made this post on the Evidence of NASA UFO Fraud Might Kill UK Hacker Case thread, but I realize I would be somewhat derailing it and think that perhaps this deserves a thread of it's own.


Something just occurred to me thinking about McKinnon's case.

If McKinnon is being prosecuted then we can all agree that he was inside some Government computers for sure, regardless of whatever he found there.

I notice that he talked about the incredibly lax security he found, almost non-existent actually (blank admin passwords, no apparent firewall etc). He also talks about seeing a lot of other people connected there, with hosts from other countries like China and so on.

Is it only me or does this sound like a honeynet to you?

We know that there are several Government and Military branches dedicated to Network Security (US CERT, National Cybersecurity Division) and even Cyber Warfare (JFCC-NW). Is it, then, a stretch to think that they would set up honeynets to monitor and even trap possible attackers?

Which leads me to the next (and the million dollar) question: Is it a stretch to think that they would deliberately use these honeynets, not only to catch hackers, but to spread disinformation?

Think about it, McKinnon now believes what he saw there. I mean, he 'hacked' the Government's computers right? So the information he saw there must be legit. At least this is probably the reasoning behind McKinnon's 'defense' that he saw UFO related information on the computers. Maybe if someone had sent him this information, or he had seen it on the Web he would dismiss it as a bunch of crazy stories and hoaxes.

Now if what he said is true, just imagine the number of people who have 'hacked' those computers and were never caught, or were working for other Governments.

Because let's face, and even though I believe some UFOs are extraterrestrial and the Government has done some cover-up, what are the chances that this information would be in NASA's computers with blank administration passwords?

Not to mention that, if there truly is a cover-up, only the higher-ups and people with need-to-know would know about it, most of the people working in NASA would not.

So basically, what are the chances that information like this would be in computers without password protection, and apparently behind no firewalls at all, since McKinnon said he saw hosts from China and other countries there?

What are the chances that if there is a cover-up going on, that this information would even be in computers with access to the Internet? It doesn't make any sense.

From a strategic point of view, I think it would make sense for the Government (especially Intelligence agencies and branches) to make use of disinformation through these methods.

What are you thoughts on this?




[edit on 16-1-2009 by converge]

I like that you are thinking critically on the mckinnon case.

I was reminded of a femail individual that he spoke with you said, there would be a ufo files cropped and not cropped on the nasa database. when he got there it was actually there.

For someone who was involved in nasa who gave mckinnon a tip and that tip proved (in mckinnons eyes) to be valid, then i think theres more than just honeynet thing going on.

I think mckinnons case is exactly what it is supposed to be for the time being, a true hacker who found some incredibly sensitive material. the government should realize that any attention at ALL is bad for the UFO truth embargo.

Once again....

Gary did not claim to find ANYTHING related to UFO's

What he claimed to find was this... in his own words...

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.

"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.

"Yeah, I looked it up," says Gary, "and it's nowhere. It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is not earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

www.thelivingmoon.com...


This has NOTHING to do with UFO's... it has to do with getting a glimpse of the Secret space 'fleet' we 'may' have up there (Which I firmly believe is run by the NAVY)

Now apply critical thinking as to WHY IS THIS STILL NEWS?

It happened over 7 years ago... he has still not been brought to trial nor has he been extradited to the USA..

In fact there is still one more new story in the news now...

He has signed a confession and is asking to be tried in the UK

McKinnons lawyers hope UK prosecution will derail extradition

Will change of administration mean change of venue?
By John Leyden
Posted in Security, 16th January 2009 11:59 GMT

Pentagon hacker Gary McKinnon has secured a potential lifeline in his long-running fight against extradition to the US on hacking charges.

McKinnon's legal team recently wrote to the Crown Prosecution Service requesting a UK trial, and offering a guilty plea to computer hacking offences while denying allegations he caused any damage. In response, the director of public prosecutions (DPP) has said it will take over four weeks to consider how to proceed with McKinnon's signed confession.

www.theregister.co.uk...


In my opinion the UFO community is giving this attention for all the wrong reasons...







[edit on 16-1-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

This has NOTHING to do with UFO's... it has to do with getting a glimpse of the Secret space 'fleet' we 'may' have up there (Which I firmly believe is run by the NAVY)

How is this not related to UFOs? If there is a secret space operation(s) it could very well account for some of the UFO reports.

UFOs don't automatically mean aliens from outer space.


[edit on 16-1-2009 by converge]

Originally posted by converge
How is this not related to UFOs? If there is a secret space operation(s) it could very well account for some of the UFO reports.

Well there is such an operation and the triangles are all ours

So in that sense you are correct...

But if anyone thinks the government or NASA is going to 'fess up' anytime soon on secret space craft don't hold your breath.

They did however announce the Mach 10 Blackswift (Fox News - its on youtube) the one we have had since 1985 at least. But then that was NASA andthe NASA spokes person dDID say that DARPA and the others already had this

Originally posted by converge
What are you thoughts on this?

I think you are about as close to the truth as anyone is going to get, Converge. Given the circumstances around the case and McKinnon's skill level, I think the scenario makes the most sense.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well there is such an operation and the triangles are all ours

But if anyone thinks the government or NASA is going to 'fess up' anytime soon on secret space craft don't hold your breath.

Not really sure how you can know for sure that "all triangles are ours" unless you have some insider information, but anyway that's not really the point of this thread and neither is disclosure.

The point I was trying to make is that it seems to me that such important and definitely Top Secret (or higher) information would be in computers with no administration passwords or even connected to the Internet, is extremely illogical and the chances of that happening are slim to say the least.

I also believe that the characteristics that McKinnon describes of these computers, that they might've been honeynets, and in light of that, I propose that perhaps what McKinnon saw was disinformation.

The most odd thing about all this is the security of those workstations. If they aren't public and are workstations why are they even allowed internet access at all? Hell spyware, malware infiltrate peoples computers on a regular basis day in and day out stealing information. I don't see the government going after those people.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by sean]

[edit on 16-1-2009 by sean]

Originally posted by sean
The most odd thing about all this is the security of those workstations. If they aren't public and are workstations why are they even allowed internet access at all?

I agree, and this is one point that I make. Although it's not uncommon to have workstations with Internet access, but it usually has some active and aggressive firewall and port filtering behind it to mitigate those sort of things.

But apparently, and this is of course taking McKinnon's word, there were other people inside those systems, that seemed to originate from other countries. So it is unlikely that they would have some firewall system working. I mean, what's the logic behind allowing access to NASA workstations from China hosts?

This is why I say it appears to me, more than anything, that these were honeynets of some sort.

Here is something related , you might find interesting :

Whistleblowers’ evidence of NASA UFO fraud might kill UK hacker case

Evidence that U.S. space agency NASA has defrauded U.S. taxpayers for billions of dollars could scrap NASA’s case against UK hacker Gary McKinnon. Credible witnesses have claimed that NASA has altered or destroyed its photos containing images of UFOs. This could become a legal and public relations nightmare for NASA.

The space agency is attempting to prosecute McKinnon for hacking into NASA computer files. McKinnon has stated that he saw UFO-related files in NASA’s computers. But NASA has denied any “cover-up”.

NASA’s claim of innocence faces a serious challenge. Some of the whistleblowers are former NASA employees and contractors with inside knowledge of NASA’s operation. If NASA’s destruction of public property is confirmed, the alleged cost of McKinnon’s hacking would be insignificant compared to NASA’s annual funding of more than $17 billion. Even worse, NASA’s year 2000 mission statement boasted that it is “ethical and honest” in all that they do.

Nasa Whistleblower

Originally posted by converge
The point I was trying to make is that it seems to me that such important and definitely Top Secret (or higher) information would be in computers with no administration passwords or even connected to the Internet, is extremely illogical and the chances of that happening are slim to say the least.

It wouldn't be UNLESS some exec had some files he shouldn't have had on his terminal

The confidential stuff is on NiPRNET, the secret stuff is on SiPRNET, the top secret stuff is on JWICS and above it all is the 'Global'

Here is a SiPRNET portal... show me how to access it from the internet...

nic dot mil ( you will have to type it in )

As to the triangles... yes I do but its easy enough to figure out by the timing of the reports.

reply to post by converge


Have you mentioned this idea to anyone involved in the case?

If it was a honeypot, it proves that McKinnon did not do the damage that the U.S claims (because he just wouldn't be able to).

I think it's worth further investigation (no idea how though).

[edit on 17-1-2009 by Comatose]

Originally posted by Comatose
Have you mentioned this idea to anyone involved in the case?

No, like I said in my OP I just thought of this.

I had read about McKinnon's case before but this scenario never crossed my mind at the time, but there was a new McKinnon thread and I revisited it.

If it was a honeypot, it proves that McKinnon did not do the damage that the U.S claims (because he just wouldn't be able to).
I think it's worth further investigation (no idea how though).

I believe that even if McKinnon hacked 'legitimate' systems and not honeynets, he didn't even do any damages, much less in the magnitude the DOJ is accusing him of.

I also think we should explore this more, but I have no idea how we could further explore it.

What? YES HE DID...


"He also claimed to have downloaded a low-resolution image of "something not man-made" and "cigar shaped" floating above the northern hemisphere."

Cigar shaped/not man made pretty much relates to UFO..
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by zorgon
Once again....

Gary did not claim to find ANYTHING related to UFO's

I was reading McKinnon's DOJ indictment PDF file and I have to say that if he indeed did some of those things listed there, then he did cause some damages, so I have that correction to make.

However, and I found this interesting, the DOJ indictment file lists the IP addresses of the machines McKinnon allegedly hacked out in the open. I found this surprising to say the least.

Or... pursuing the conspiratorial perspective, the addresses are out in the open because they want the IPs to be known, giving more credence to the idea that they are honeypots or part of a honeynet.

But on the list there are numerous IP addresses, from different agencies and even a couple of private companies, 2 universities and 2 public libraries. I don't see how all these machines could be part of a honeynet, or if they are, whoever's behind it has masked those machines as even being part of private companies.

It could also happen that he did hack these unrelated machines just for fun, or to use as proxies, and the ones where he saw the "UFO stuff" was indeed part of a honeynet.

We can only speculate, and like it seems frequent in this field, I think we're gonna be left without any real answers.

If I was Gary McKinnon , I would commit a crime in the UK . Not like a murder or anything where anyone gets hurt , but go down to the local supermarket and jump over the counter and rob the till, then wave the wad at the camera till the police came and arrested me . Surely a crime commited in the UK takes precidence over anything to be extradited for . Serve your two years for robbery in a uk jail and hopefully the madness that lets a citizen from the uk be extradited with no trial is repudiated in that time .

Or Arson. They don't call anything arson anymore , it's always terrorism . They love anything to do with terrorism , backs up the lies they tell us on why they invaded iraq and afghanistan . Thats what he needs to do, set alight some government owned building , even if it's only the front door and they'll be all over him in a proaganda motivated arrest .

They'll never let him rot in a US jail , they'd want him close at hand in the uk , the face of terror to keep the public beholding to the govnt lies.


[edit on 17-1-2009 by Drexl]

I posted this in the other thread, but gotta repost it here because I think the "honeypot" idea was tossed around as well...

Originally posted by Earthscum
Not totally off subject... I remember a thread about 4 years ago where an ATS member found an unsecure government network (FBI, maybe?).
I can't remember the outcome of the thread, just hoping that maybe it will spark someone's memory. Basically the argument was that it is open, and connected to public domain, thus no criminal charges should be made against someone casually surfing or researching and accidentally stepping inside. May be revelent to this thread.

Again, hopefully someone remembers this thread... all I've said is all I remember, and wouldn't know how to go about searching for it (I'm not stupid, just that any search besides 'enter words and we see if we can find them' doesn't make sense to me. If I'm looking for "UFO Disclosure", why should one word have to be more relevant than the other? Basically just really annoying. I have problems filling out so-called 'standard' forms too... but I can write XML, HTML and other code. Go figure). (me laughing at myself so you can laugh with me instead of AT me)

A honeynet actually makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's exactly what McKinnon found. Good thinking! Well, there's no definite proof of it though, but it's a very good possibility!

Mckinnon's case is a very confusing one!

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.

"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.

"Yeah, I looked it up," says Gary, "and it's nowhere. It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is not earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

www.thelivingmoon.com...

IMHO, what Mckinnon found was just what he said he found. No conspiracy. No "honeynet." He just didn't understand or want to understand what he found. Seems to me he found legitimate lists which would be rated Top Secret for the identification of the Officers, and therefore, the risks to their families, involved. If our enemies knew not only who these Officers and Crews were, but also, where they were stationed. It makes an assault on those Officers and their Commands easier to accomplish. That's why they are closely guarded lists. And IMHO ought to be.
As for the foreign hosts, that would be allies and/ or interagency organizations and programs abroad. NASA is composed of way more than just her US based elements. As to the lists, they may or may not have been related, but they weren't that amazing:
'Non-Terrestrial Officers: Non- Earth based Officers and Crews list. Astronaughts on the Space Station and other classified orbitals and vehicles. Unless you classify a Shuttle built in space as a space ship, which, I suppose technically it is, then yes they have a spaceship, but, it doesn't confirm or deny that it's the UFO- type spaceship to which we associate the concept of a space ship and as it seems to be inferred herein this thread.
Fleet-to-Fleet Transfers: Terrestrial or Non Terrestrial this is just what it says it is. A list of Officers and/ or Enlisted (or anything else one Fleet could transfer to another) who are being transferred from one Fleet Command to another. Be it Terrestrial, Non- Terrestrial or some combination thereof. After all, Space is the legal jurisdiction of the Navy and Naval Command Groups are referred to as Fleets. The use of the word "Fleet", if it was used in a Non- Terrestrial sense, I can't determine from the post if they were Non Terrestrial Fleet to Fleet lists, would, at the least, verify a Group of Naval Commands, mobile and/ or stationary, vs. A single Command.
Ship Names: He says that dope made him forget, I've come from a long line of heavy to severe pot- smokers and that effect has never been the case for any of us or our friends and usually get irked when some dummy makes the claim that their crappy memories or stupid actions are the result of a drug that only makes you euphoric, hungry, or sleepy. It has never made me or anyone I know forget a damn thing. This part of his statement is an outright lie. Either he remembers or he was so wrapped up in what he was reading and doing that he paid it little or no mind, or he found the list of Naval Vessels that do not Officially exist. I could give you names off that list too and tell you where they're stationed, what they're for, and how they differ from the technologies and "ships" even the Top secret levels of military are accustomed to, but, I would never be so stupid as to even begin to utter so much as the name of one of these, much less believe this guy is that dense either. And if it wasn't one of the Non Official deClassified, Classified, Confidential, Secret or top Secret ships list, then it was an Official one, and you have only to turn to the Fighting Jane's Books as they openly list them all and all their supposed "secrets" within reason of course. There's not enough information to rule out Space Station type ships or shuttle type ships or the like. It cannot be assumed as to refer to the UFO style ships being inferred herein this thread.
We all know a wrench doesn't cost $20, 000, so, they could easily build the UFO's we see and know these space ships to be, but, IMHO, these "lists" don't do a thing to confirm or deny anything of the sort. They point to nothing unusual for the NAVY and NASA operates under Naval Jurisdiction.


[edit on 18-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
Seems to me he found legitimate lists which would be rated Top Secret for the identification of the Officers, and therefore, the risks to their families, involved. If our enemies knew not only who these Officers and Crews were, but also, where they were stationed. It makes an assault on those Officers and their Commands easier to accomplish. That's why they are closely guarded lists. And IMHO ought to be.

And it's exactly because, existing, that information would be incredibly well guarded and not on workstations with blank administration passwords.

It seems to me that your own words hint at the contradiction of what your conclusion is: the need to protect such information would be enormous that the likelihood of such information being in these easy to breach computers and network systems is slim to none.

Another important thing we have to keep in mind is that he doesn't have anything tangible to share. I don't understand how you can say that he did find the lists of "Non-Terrestrial Officers."

We'd all like to believe McKinnon, but unfortunately McKinnon can't produce a thing of what he said he saw or read.

Furthermore, he says he didn't have a time to download an image of a "man-made UFO" he saw on the NASA computers, but according to his case file he was using RemotelyAnywhere to control these machines remotely.

But anyone who knows how RemotelyAnywhere or any other remote administration tools work (such as Windows RDP) know that this doesn't make any sense. These tools broadcast what the remotely administrated machine is displaying, in essence, it is sending the images of what the desktop looks like so you know what you're doing in the remote machine.

He says since he was using dial-up he didn't have time to download an image, yet he apparently for years and years didn't have a problem using RemotelyAnywhere to control these machines with his dial-up connection. Something's not right here!

Either he didn't saw anything and he's making it up thinking that coming out with such bombastic information would help his case (get the federal Government out of his back), or he saw something and saved it but said he couldn't save any information because he thought it would get him in even more trouble.

As of now, I'm leaning towards the first option. But none of these dismiss the possibility that the systems he broke into weren't part of a honeynet.


[edit on 18-1-2009 by converge]