Look at what "innocent" Gazans use

Israel has gained nothing from their attack on Gaza. The savage and disproportionate blitzkrieg against all Gazans has earned Israel new enemies around the globe. This action has not made Israel safer...I think it will only hasten the demise of your country. One day soon Israel is going to find itself very cutoff and surrounded by enemies of their own making.

If Gazans are hungry, can't grow enough food, if they're too crowded, have no place to go, and obviously have no intention of building infrastructure, then it would appear that the entire world should send lots and lots of birth control.

If you breed like rats in a limited space, then you will in fact eventually begin to outdemand limited resources.

If the Israelis hated the Gazans, they should send lots and lots of food and help them with their wells. Feed them. Breed hundreds of thousands more. Encourage breeding.

And THEN shut off the food, and sabotage the water.

But Israel won't do that. They're much too humane. Thus, they'll continue to send power to Gaza, food to Gaza, medicine to Gaza -----the moment Gaza quits firing at Israel.

reply to post by dooper


You are right to mention the genocide that Israel is performing in Gaza...no food,no water, no electricity.

Oh wait. Israel is not doing that and Gaza is still firing rockets.

I don't know if Israel is stupid for not squeezing the area even more or the most magnanimous nation since the creation of America.

Hammas will not stop. That was announced today. So then lets give Israel every opportunity to send as many fighters as possible to the 72 virgins.

Has anyone ever seen this

Israe l Ministry of Foreign Affairs

It seems that in 2007, the year you are using to prove your point, only 3 Israeli deaths were reported from terror attacks. There were more people wounded yes, deaths only three. I think there is something to be said about the graphs on this page. Look at how the attacks have been going down since the year 2000. And this is information from Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. When you leave religion and racism and politics aside, you find that people are just people. Palestinian and Jewish, I'm sure in both sides there are those who have had enough, with the killings of innocents.

I don't support the killing of innocents from the state of Israel or HAMAS. I do however find that in this precise point in time Israel is acting in a very evil way...... criminal even. Because that others commit terror attacks in Israel or anywhere in the world, does not mean that a "supposedly civilized" country should act in kind.

As for why Muslims fight I leave you with a quote from one of my favorite movies... yeah I said it, a movie:

Quintus: People should know when they're conquered.
Maximus: Would you Quintus? Would I?

[edit on 1/12/2009 by 3vilscript]

Looking at the history of the Palestinians there is no doubt in my mind that they have been suffering. The Psyche of Palestinians needs to be taken into account.

They live in a "ghetto" and cannot get out due to a wall surrounding them. It is a prison....can you imagine what that would do to the human spirit??? Break it down and do stupid things such as bomb their neighbour-- all just to make a point,--- elect a violent government, breed suicide bombers and sheer hate for the thieves of their land....This is all just a vicious cycle, when will it stop?

Do you know that for decades Gazans were working in Israel or Gaza strip settlements and were involved in a joined Palestinian- Israeli endeavors in industries, medicinal, export and much more?

What did the Palestinians do to improve their lives? N-O-T-H-I-N-G ! Did they say lets move on with peace talks and embrace our joint activities as a good starting point for a two state solution? The answer came in the form of suicide bombing in crowded population centers, in the form of gun fire against innocent passing cars, in the form of rocket and mortar fire and in the form of lynching.

What did Palestinians do with the millions of Dollars they were giving to better their lives? Built houses or bought weapons?

What did the Palestinians do with the settlements evacuated in 2005? Did they use it to build decent homes for the suffering refugees? No, they use it as military bases.

Do you in your mind can imagine any nation in the world that will tolerate such acts and not close its borders?

What was the result of the peace talks in the 90s between Rabin and Arafat? Terror!
What was the result of the peace talks between Barak and Arafat? Terror again!

Palestinians never miss a chance to give peace a chance.

Oh, and about Arafat: Did anyone ever wonder how is it that he became a billionaire?
On who's expanse?

Israel is an invading occupying force - Palestine has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT in the world to defend itself.

Israel is not defending itself against Hamas rockets as Israel is the aggressor.

So by your thinking Mordechaj Anielewicz was a terrorist for resisting the Nazis in Warsaw ?

By your line of thinking Germany was within their rights to exterminate these people becuase they formed a resistance to the German occupation.

Israel is an occupying force and until they withdraw to the 1948 borders any and all means of resistance are legitimate -

Let us NEVER forget the measures the US used in their struggle against the Japanese - you nuked two cities with nothing but women and children as targets.

Were the Germans justified in destroying England because England fought back during the Blitz ?

Your arguments are the most spurious and misguided I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

Originally posted by RFBurns
You need to correct your thread title. The Palestinian people dont use the weapons, Hamas does.

It should reflect that and not try to spread more propeganda.


Thank you.


Cheers!!!!

This is the start of hypocrisy. Look how he cried out that Palestinians are not Hamas! And then we find in another thread that when one criticizes Hamas that they were democratically elected..... I'm sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it. The people must take responsibility for electing a terrorist band of thugs, who wish the destruction of a sovereign nation.

"Look at what "innocent" Gazans use"

I would like to say, look at what "innocent" Israelis use....

Cluster bombs, air raids, missiles, white phosphorous, depleted uranium, plutonium, tanks, bulldozers, sniper guns, .... and the list goes on.....

Originally posted by audas
Israel is an invading occupying force - Palestine has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT in the world to defend itself.

Israel is not defending itself against Hamas rockets as Israel is the aggressor.

So by your thinking Mordechaj Anielewicz was a terrorist for resisting the Nazis in Warsaw ?

By your line of thinking Germany was within their rights to exterminate these people becuase they formed a resistance to the German occupation.

Israel is an occupying force and until they withdraw to the 1948 borders any and all means of resistance are legitimate -

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine / Israel. General Assembly Resolution 181.

Israel agree to the partition resolution in 1947. Arabs refuse and gang against Israel. Israel won. Arabs cry.

If Palestine did to Israel what Israel is doing to Palestine now.
The US and Israel would be crying to the United Nations screaming they are victims of terrorists and that there should be immediate UN actions against them.

There would be no Veto, there would be no missed votes.
you could be assured that they would get their way,
yet when the UN starts to say Israel is being a little heavy handed, they shoot aid workers and shoot an UN schools, veto votes and miss other votes and completely ignore the calls for cease fire once again claiming to be the victim.

Originally posted by gravitational

Originally posted by audas
Israel is an invading occupying force - Palestine has EVERY SINGLE RIGHT in the world to defend itself.

Israel is not defending itself against Hamas rockets as Israel is the aggressor.

So by your thinking Mordechaj Anielewicz was a terrorist for resisting the Nazis in Warsaw ?

By your line of thinking Germany was within their rights to exterminate these people becuase they formed a resistance to the German occupation.

Israel is an occupying force and until they withdraw to the 1948 borders any and all means of resistance are legitimate -

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine / Israel. General Assembly Resolution 181.

Israel agree to the partition resolution in 1947. Arabs refuse and gang against Israel. Israel won. Arabs cry.

Great logic - Germany gassed Jews to the point of extinction -Jews cry - get Palestine and bombs and guns to inflict same violence on another culture.

Germany withdrew, Japan withdrew, China, Russia, evern America withdrew win lose or draw - it is FACT you can not acquire land legally on this PLANET through warfare and get away with it.

England withdrew from China, India, Australia etc and did not LOSE but wished to be recognised as part of the global community.

The US acquired land through Filibustering and other ILLEGAL means and gave it back as they wished to retain legitimacy in the international community.

Now if Israel wishes to remain a recognised and legitimate state recognised by the UN then they MUST return this land - otherwise it is illegal and they are illegitimate.

QED

reply to post by crmanager


And again, where is your proof that the people being killed in Gaza were firing rockets?

I'm pretty sure a toddler wouldn't be too great at launching a missile into Israel.

You're completely ignoring what Israel is doing. They are killing hundreds of women and children, they are not Hamas fighters. They don't fire rockets into Israel.

Why are so many people in complete denial on this? Are you all working as some professional propaganda machine for Israel? Because you sound just like every spokesperson for Israel on the news, going on and on about rockets being fired but refusing to respond when the issue of kids being killed is brought up, or when asked about firing on the UN, or when challenged over deliberately firing on a house full of civilians you directed there, or the statement by the Red Cross that the IDF left children to starve beside the bodies of their mothers.

It's not very convenient to face these facts when talking about Israels right to defend itself is it? So instead, you pretend that none of this is happening, that they're only killing Hamas fighters, that Israel is "doing everything it can" to avoid killing civilians.

Regardless of rockets, Israel is carrying out a massacre of innocent people. And by ignoring that, you are supporting this act.

I really don't see any excuse for an intelligent person to support this action of "defense" when it clearly isn't defense. How is killing hundreds (if not thousands) of people going to somehow convince an already desperate and blockaded people that they shouldn't fight you?
In what sensible mind does it make sense to kill hundreds of women and kids to stop rockets being fired at your people?

It doesn't make any sense and that is why so many millions of awake people on Earth are so against this barbaric action.

But, I fully expect you to ignore the facts, ignore what your common sense tells you, and continue to support the insane Israel. You've already accepted their propaganda into your life and you've probably supported them for so long now you can't bear to admit that you've been supporting a hateful government in their murder of civilians.

If you admitted that now, it would make you feel just a little guilty wouldn't it?

It does make me wonder just how long people are kept awake at night by the images of what their righteous Israel is doing to so many people, if they're kept awake by it at all.

They should be kept awake by it.
A part of me hopes that at some time, when observers are actually permitted into Gaza to see the real damage, all these people who've supported Israel will finally see exactly what they have been supporting.
But another part of me thinks that they'll never accept the truth, they'll twist it into some remarkable BS to again prop up their immaculate image of Israel, anything to avoid the guilt, right?

Who knows how many of the children killed in Gaza are killed by Israelis, or Hamas. When you intentionally put children into harms ways in a war zone, you are responsible for the deaths.

The only solution at this point is for Israel to take over Gaza, and clean out what remains of Hamas. I hope they succeed in destroying all the tunnels before Hamas leadership can escape, if they didn't escape before the defensive response by Israel started.

No one is calling Gaza innocent... They are however pointing out that Gaza is mouse and Israel a cat.

The mouse is pretty much defenseless against the Cat but it can evade capture.
Point is that Israel is being condemned for annihilating a fairly defenceless nation with advanced weapons. And Gaza is fighting back with petty arms and avoiding capture, yet the fighting continues.

Also in the OP it mentions something about 3000+ rockets being fired into Israel over the period of 1 year... It wouldn't surprise me if Israel fired that many on one day of this bloody gruesome siege.

And lastly, your quote on the cost of a rocket... Do you "really" believe that they are paying that much? This is the black market that they are making these purchases from after all

Has anybody bothered to read the historical facts of the region.

en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> en.wikipedia.org...

Now, if we are to accept the balfour declaration as a contractual obligation in COLONIAL TIMES of land in exchange for financial help, the british clearly failed to fulfill their part of the bargain and left it for the united nations to settle the matter:

UN partition

Main article: United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine

UN partition plan, 1947

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly, with a two-thirds majority international vote, passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181), a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning the territory into separate Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area (encompassing Bethlehem) coming under international control. Jewish leaders (including the Jewish Agency), accepted their portion of the plan, while Palestinian Arab leaders rejected it and refused to negotiate. Neighboring Arab and Muslim states also rejected the partition plan. The Arab community reacted violently after the Arab Higher Committee declared a strike and burned many buildings and shops. In a speech delivered on 25 March 1948, US President Truman recommended a temporary trusteeship and stated: We could not undertake to impose this solution on the people of Palestine by the use of American troops, both on Charter grounds and as a matter of national policy.[132] As armed skirmishes between Arab and Jewish paramilitary forces in Palestine continued, the British mandate ended on May 15, 1948, the establishment of the State of Israel having been proclaimed the day before (see Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel). The neighboring Arab states and armies (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Transjordan, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army, and local Arabs) immediately attacked Israel following its declaration, and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War ensued. Consequently, the partition plan was never implemented.

Before you bring in Irgun or lehi:

en.wikipedia.org...

Both occupying powers experienced difficulties with local peasant armed bands ( 'isabat), after Britain had withdrawn its troops from both the Bekaa valley and the Galilee in autumn 1919. By February 1920, these groups, which often operated in liaison with political organisations, began harassing Jewish settlements in the Galilee, such as Metula, Tel Hai and Kfar Giladi. On March 1, the death at Tel Hai of Joseph Trumpeldor, a Jewish hero of the Russo-Japanese War who mobilized the defence of the settlements, at the hands of a Shiite gang from Southern Lebanon, caused deep concerns among Zionist leaders, who made numerous requests to the Mandate administration to address the Yishuv's security and forbid a pro-Syrian public rally. Their fears were largely discounted, however, by the Chief Administrative Officer General Louis Bols, Governor Sir Ronald Storrs and General Edmund Allenby, despite a warning from the President of the World Zionist Organization Dr. Chaim Weizmann that "pogrom is in the air", supported by assessments available to Storrs.[3] Weizmann was convinced the British Army identified the Jews with Bolsheviks intent on driving out the local population, and he interpreted comuniqués about foreseeable troubles between Arabs and Jews, given that the administration must impose on the former unpopular policies, as reminiscent of instructions Russian generals had issued on the eve of pogroms.[4] In the meantime, local expectations had been raised to a pitch by the declaration of the Syrian Congress on March 7 of the independence of Syria and Palestine, with Faisal as its king. Preoccupied by the possible menacing reverberations of this announcement, Bols reverted his decision

I think this cartoon explains nicely the difference between hamas and israeli rockets...

maybe OP understands pictures better than words?








[edit on 13-1-2009 by donhuangenaro]

Originally posted by poet1b

Who knows how many of the children killed in Gaza are killed by Israelis, or Hamas. When you intentionally put children into harms ways in a war zone, you are responsible for the deaths.

The only solution at this point is for Israel to take over Gaza, and clean out what remains of Hamas. I hope they succeed in destroying all the tunnels before Hamas leadership can escape, if they didn't escape before the defensive response by Israel started.

In such a densely populated area this is not possible.

And yet again the FACTS of what Israel is doing are completely ignored.

How long is it going to take before a pro-Israel poster actually responds adequately to the accusations made by the UN, Red Cross, Amnesty International, Reporters in the region, medical staff within Gaza...?

Are you all going to ignore these inconvenient facts forever, because it makes you feel ashamed to support Israel?

Tell me why Israel bombed a UN school.
Tell me why Israel directed groups of people, families, into a house and then bombed it!
Tell me why Israel feels the need to use random, indiscriminate weaponry if it's conducting "strategic strikes"
Tell me why the IDF fired on a UN convoy, killing a UN worker, after giving them the all clear.
Tell me why Israel is refusing to allow international observers and media into Gaza.
Tell me why Israeli troops left toddlers to starve beside the decomposing bodies of their families just yards from their position.
Tell me why Israeli troops are reportedly driving over bodies in the streets in their tanks.
Tell me why it has been seen that Israeli troops are bulldozing houses.

Please. One pro-Israel poster, answer these questions!
Enough dodging and avoiding, this is what you are supporting, face up to it, stop wimping out, explain your reasoning behind supporting these atrocities.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by poet1b

Who knows how many of the children killed in Gaza are killed by Israelis, or Hamas. When you intentionally put children into harms ways in a war zone, you are responsible for the deaths.

The only solution at this point is for Israel to take over Gaza, and clean out what remains of Hamas. I hope they succeed in destroying all the tunnels before Hamas leadership can escape, if they didn't escape before the defensive response by Israel started.

In such a densely populated area this is not possible.

And yet again the FACTS of what Israel is doing are completely ignored.

How long is it going to take before a pro-Israel poster actually responds adequately to the accusations made by the UN, Red Cross, Amnesty International, Reporters in the region, medical staff within Gaza...?

Are you all going to ignore these inconvenient facts forever, because it makes you feel ashamed to support Israel?

Tell me why Israel bombed a UN school.
Tell me why Israel directed groups of people, families, into a house and then bombed it!
Tell me why Israel feels the need to use random, indiscriminate weaponry if it's conducting "strategic strikes"
Tell me why the IDF fired on a UN convoy, killing a UN worker, after giving them the all clear.
Tell me why Israel is refusing to allow international observers and media into Gaza.
Tell me why Israeli troops left toddlers to starve beside the decomposing bodies of their families just yards from their position.
Tell me why Israeli troops are reportedly driving over bodies in the streets in their tanks.
Tell me why it has been seen that Israeli troops are bulldozing houses.

Please. One pro-Israel poster, answer these questions!
Enough dodging and avoiding, this is what you are supporting, face up to it, stop wimping out, explain your reasoning behind supporting these atrocities.

OK...I'll answer your questions spanky.
UN school. Israel wanted to kill innocents.
Family in house? Kill innocents.
Yadda Yadda. Does this make you feel better?That is all you want to hear.

You have bitten HARD on every piece of anti-Israeli propaganda that the anti-Israeli Hammas sponsered press has spewed out. Fine.

Replace Israeli tanks with "American tanks" or "Russian tanks" or any nation that is being attacked and you have the same bile.

Nothing will change your mind so best of luck with your rabid Israeli hatred.

I dont understand why Isreal has to be one or the other, or divided.

The violent are the propagation of violence. Thats all I see. Ignoratn war and murder from both ends. And after reading this article at infowars today. I now think Hamas is a secret tool of well..i didnt say it first..

isreal. go read it.

www.prisonplanet.com...