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Students lie, cheat, steal, but say they're good

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posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Students lie, cheat, steal, but say they're good


news.yahoo.com

NEW YORK – In the past year, 30 percent of U.S. high school students have stolen from a store and 64 percent have cheated on a test, according to a new, large-scale survey suggesting that Americans are too apathetic about ethical standards.

Educators reacting to the findings questioned any suggestion that today's young people are less honest than previous generations, but several agreed that intensified pressures are prompting many students to cut corners.
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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This is a subject very close to my heart. When I was in high school I saw the foundations of this problem being built and I knew then what this may lead to.

You can't stuff 100 kids in a classroom, treat them all like criminals, put undue pressure on them and then wonder why they're not learning anything. Now kids are responding in the same apathetic way as the adults who staged this whole mess in years prior when I was in school.



"We have to create situations where it's easy for kids to do the right things," he added. "We need to create classrooms where learning takes on more importance than having the right answer."


But in a world of No Child Left Behind where standardized testing has totally set aside any notion of students actually learning, we are finding ourselves in a situation where the kids aren't learning anything, there's pressure on them to know the answers, and then what? What do we think is going to happen here?

He's right, we do need to create a situation where it is conducive to actually learning something. And I don't want to hear how impossible it is and that these kids are just bad apples...BS, we created a bad situation for them to begin with, and we can create a good situation now.


"A lot of people like to blame society's problems on young people, without recognizing that young people aren't making the decisions about what's happening in society," said Dzurinko, 32. "They're very easy to scapegoat."


Indeed they are the next generation of baking fiasco's, and GWBs. Since everyone else is doing it why not us? No one can set a standard of honesty that is reflected upon our kids, parents have a habit of taking a backseat to the whole problem, and we want to ensure that none of this will ever happen again? Who are we kidding?



news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


[edit on 30-11-2008 by projectvxn]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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Politicians lie, cheat, steal, but say they're good. They set up the education system.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


Can't blame it all on politicians. We would never have had this kind of mess if parents had been proactive in their children's lives. If they had just made themselves parts of the decision making process. Yes politician do set this stuff up but they do it because parents aren't there to say "hey, what is the purpose of all this?"

No PTA meeting, and the ones that are around are a popularity contest. I don't think schools do open house anymore where parents are required to show up and monitor their child's progress 4 times a year. Can't be bothered with it.

I blame parents, politicians, police, and teachers for their lack of foresight. Who knew that ignoring children, treating them like criminals, and assuming they all learn the same would have negative impacts on development?

I did. And if I had the presence of mind to detect this BS when I was 17 then surely someone of much higher standing must have known as well. And something should have been done.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


I was being tongue in cheek, all people and professions do some of the above, have done and will do for as long as we are human.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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It's simple really. The standard has become it's not how you play the game it's whether you win or lose. And the old fall back if it doesn't matter who wins or loses then why keep score.

The pressure to succeed at all costs is just too much.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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There's much more pressure on japanese students than americans students for grades.

IMO, it's just the corruption culture that's been developping for the last 20 years.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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Is this the part where Im suppose to feel bad for cheating?


I bet you the teachers cheated, on their wife or husband, on a test before, lied or stolen.

People make a bigger deal out of that type of stuff than they ought to. We live in a capitalistic materialistic society. So someone steals a TV, make another one.

It only bothers YOU if you LET it.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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Popular culture and failure of the family and failure of the corrupt education system.

Kids replicate what they see on TV... in my day, it was Happy Days where the Fonz was cool. Today we have kids bombarded with "teen shows" that give kids "STUPID" ideas.

Hey.. want attention.. CUT YOURSELF! and crap like that.. It is pathetic.

School.. yeah not like when I was there... How many of you have gradeschool aged children? How many of them actually do the fundementals like writing a spelling word 20 times? Not many I bet. Half of these kids can barely do multiplication in the freeking 6th grade! The only reason my daughter isn't a freekin unducated idiot is because I MADE her write her spelling words and I MADE her write out her "times tables". By the way, they didn't do this in school. I have lived in 5 states in the last 10 years and it appears to be the same almost everywhere. Bad schools, lazy teachers, lowered expectations.... Someone complained about standardized tests before... well they can barely teach "how to pass a test" let alone teach half of these kids to read. The Public School System is a failure... Popular Culture TV is a severly BAD influence.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 




they are just 'Interning' the skills needed to become a CEO of a
large corporation...


see, they already are living the dream of 'Rock Star' with the store bought Guitar Hero product.... so they've taken up cheating & cutting corners & rationalizing unethical actions,


stuff thats not needed by actual Rock-Stars

but is essential in the corporate leadership heirarchy










o



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by ConservativeJack
Is this the part where Im suppose to feel bad for cheating?


I bet you the teachers cheated, on their wife or husband, on a test before, lied or stolen.

People make a bigger deal out of that type of stuff than they ought to. We live in a capitalistic materialistic society. So someone steals a TV, make another one.

It only bothers YOU if you LET it.



It becomes an insurmountable challenge the longer we don't let it bother us. It bothers me because it is this total lack of concern for our future generations that will lead to the destruction of American society, and this lack of taking responsibility that will lead to actions whose consequences may very well destroy the global society. Yes, Proper education IS life and death preperation, and should be seen as the one catalyst of our future survival.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


It is the parents' responsibility to turn off the damned TV and start getting involved in their childrens development. Otherwise why are parents around?

[edit on 30-11-2008 by projectvxn]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 

I've never stolen from a store, and I don't think I've ever cheated on a test (at least, not a major one). I even try to prevent people from trying to cheat off of my work. I also don't lie very often, and feel very bad when I do lie. It seems I'm in the minority, but I also don't live in the US.
Most of the people who cheat on tests are stupid people, anyways.

====
Mod Edit: Replaced large quote with 'reply to' link.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 

It isn't always the parents fault. Sometimes the kid is just bad. My parents aren't very involved in my life, they don't punish me very often (I've never been grounded), and they rarely teach me anything. Yet I think I've turned out right (so far).



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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Lying, cheating, and stealing has become the norm for success in the U.S., and the world in general. Look at the example our commander and thief has set for the world, screw the rules, do what you want.

It isn't just the U.S. where students, and people behave like this, this is the norm around the planet.

When we stopped enforcing the rules under Raygun's free market nonsense, we stopped encouraging people to act morally. When the government started looking the other way while corporations lied, cheated, and stole their fortunes, we abandoned our morality.

Todays children are merely following the examples set by the preceding generation.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Well it seems the math is in. When 60% of student have cheated or are cheating, that means that the vast majority of students AREN'T LEARNING. It's not that they are stupid, obviously they are smart enough to get by without doing the work. Imagine if parents and teachers were more proactive. or if administrators would just get the hell out of the way when it comes to letting teachers teach, and teaching REAL science, math and reading skills. These skills are the foundation of a better future. The dumber people are the fewer options they have. And you're right, some kids are just bad apples, but that should never justify setting the goal post back. This is what we have done, we have lowered expectations every time a child has found that meeting the standards of yesterday was too difficult. Instead of working with that child he/she is either pushed through, or forced to drop. To prevent a drop the administration just sets the bar lower and lower, and the law requires that you pass a test you're not capable of passing, so more drop.

People complain about socialism, public education is socialist but it is treated as part of a free market system and it is NOT. You cannot reconcile the two. You cannot make something that is meant to spend money on intangible, but necessary things like education. You can't turn it into a money making scheme, and that is exactly was has happened. Mix that in with ignorant parents, and those who think school is a replacement for parenting, and the example the rest of us as adults set in the media, online, and at home is that of adolescents whose period of childhood has been extended to the age of 30 only with drugs, sex, violence, and this generally accepted notion that honesty is not the best policy. It's why we have gameshows based on telling the truth, because the truth has become a novelty to be gawked at in disbelief rather than taught as a virtue.

Society is truly disgusting when you dig up what we sweep under the rug.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


I agree with you. This is a reflection of society in general, not something that is isolated to high school students. Our culture is so full of lying and cheating right now it is insane. How are high school kids supposed to do something good when everywhere they look people are doing the wrong thing?

I agree with the posters who point to parenting. That is the first line of defense here but it would seem that most parents are allowing the TV and the schools to raise their children. If that is the choice that they make, how can they be surprised or disappointed when their children end up reflecting the poor values of our decaying culture?



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
When 60% of student have cheated or are cheating, that means that the vast majority of students AREN'T LEARNING. It's not that they are stupid, obviously they are smart enough to get by without doing the work.


I'm in my final year at uni and have had to contend with cheating and theiving co-students and it really made my blood boil.

The thefts in particular were of others' academic assignments that were submitted to the tutors by drop-box in the faculty office, and had personally been threatened with a maximum 40% capped-grade for work that had taken a lot of time and effort to produce and submitted on time, only to be stolen by another student to either profit from my labours or to eliminate me as an 'academic opposition', leaving me to plead my case



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by citizen smith
 


And this is really what it boils down to. People ask why they should care and your story is why. This also happens in highschools. People cheat and everyone suffers for it regardless of previous or current achievement.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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I've never cheated on a test in my life.


... I'm lying to you.


Trust me on that.



lol. Sorry, I had to. Couldn't resist.
I pin the whole thing down to the fact that Americans are afraid of disciplining their children. There are so many rules against using disciplinary measures, it's incredible the children aren't torching entire cities because they know they can get away with it.

Sure they lie, cheat, steal, etc.
What possible recourse is there? What's in place to tell them not to?

The American education system has been going down the drain for some time now... I don't expect it to get any better. Lying, Cheating, Stealing, School shootings, etc... It's all just part of a decaying system.




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