Students lie, cheat, steal, but say they're good

I think one of the keys is to let students learn at their own rate. If I had been able to learn at my own rate, I probably could have gotten a BS by the time I was 18, instead of just a HS degree because the learning rate was set so far below what I was capable of learning. I think that is a big problem that most students are faced with. The learning rate is too slow, so they tune out.

If students were left to learn on their own, only needing help occasionally, then the teachers would have more time to concentrate on the students who need more help.

Of course, this would make it much harder to use education as a means to create a caste system.

I think one of the keys is to let students learn at their own rate. If I had been able to learn at my own rate, I probably could have gotten a BS by the time I was 18, instead of just a HS degree because the learning rate was set so far below what I was capable of learning. I think that is a big problem that most students are faced with. The learning rate is too slow, so they tune out.

If students were left to learn on their own, only needing help occasionally, then the teachers would have more time to concentrate on the students who need more help.

Of course, this would make it much harder to use education as a means to create a caste system.

And this is news how?

As an 18 year old I can tell you that us teenagers are waaaay worse than most people like to think.

Hell even the suburban white kids lie cheat and steal.

To all you parents out there : YOURE KIDS ARE LYING.

trust me on that. haha kind of ironic I say that isn't it?

reply to post by theendisnear69


And this adds to the conversation how? But you're 18, you apparently don't know any better so I'll cut you some slack, just so you can do it again. See the problem yet?

[edit on 2-12-2008 by projectvxn]

reply to post by jibeho


you and i disagree about this issue, and about our human exsistence, on a very basic level.

in my model of human exsistence, scarcity is a fabricated unreality which has been imposed upon us by an ulterior intelligence.

to rephrase: abundance is the REAL reality.

therefore: i see nothing wrong with the "current slacker generation" sense of entitlement. why should not a person reasonably expect to have some measure of true satisfaction in this life, whether or not they pay some kind of "price"?

for thousands of years our forebears have been duped and have blindly followed what has been spoon-fed to them. and finally, finally, after this long time, we have come to a generation of humans whom look upon this most fundamental of falsehoods and say:

"....wait a second....this is a frickin' ripoff!....i'm out."

and as a gesture, they mirror our effed up morals and ethics back at us.

again, from this perspective it is quite easy to reconcile lying, cheathing, and stealing with goodness.

reply to post by tgidkp


That is your choice.
I don't have to agree with you either. I can only feel sorry for you and others like you.

reply to post by tgidkp


I agree entirely. Our system of monetary slavery is part of the reason why th whole education system is obsolete. Because it follows an obsolete model, from finance to how it handles educating people, it will essentially fall to pieces and this economic crisis will prove that.

Then, it will be replaced by another model, and for a time it will be good, but as long as it is based on the monetary system that holds back and enslaves humanity, it is doomed to fail over and over.

reply to post by projectvxn


oh, good. i usually have to stand on this side of crazy by myself.

i do not claim that my post above has any practical use in today's society. but really, i am not a very practical guy. rather, a true idealist. what i suggest is nothing short of utopia.

cheers to the new paradigm!

Hi.. Im in Portugal.. Im 24 years old.. graduated college 1,5 years ago and now im taking a master..
However, Im (and most of my colleagues in college (my course didnt have much people, just 10 or so per year)) an exception..
I have friends with the same age that dont do absolutely nothing.. live and are supported by their parents and spent time just playing video games..
This is a reality that astounds me!
I dont blame public school here in portugal thought.. i had terrible teachers, yes.. but in a sense that they couldnt "control" students in the class room.. on the other hand, i had very good teachers that knew how to led students to the learning process..
I say that parents are to blame partially for not taking care of their children and just buy things to entertain them.. However, I can say that i only saw my parents in the evening and didnt spend much time with them.. even now i dont.. im not very attached to them in a daily basis (of course i loved them )
My point is: Where is the PERSONAL REALISATION in this "kids"??
Ok.. i can understand that maybe at 16 years old this can be getting laid with the most number of girls, play soccer well and all of that..
But at 24?? How can they be content only with be a good player in a damned game??
More than moral, ethical issues.. i focus on personal realisation..
I went to college not because of getting a better job etc...
I went because i wanted to work on something that gives me a sense of personal realisation and i worked for it and now i have one.. Hell in first 6 months my wage wasnt even the national minimum wage! And i still worked because i love what i do..
So more than say that they dont have morals, ethics etc.. I think they are completely LOST about the real sense of LIFE.
Hell, personal realisation is more than materialistic.. so it cant be connected with parents giving them all they want.. This is a crisis of more than values.. its SENSE of LIFE.

Edit to add -> These "childish" friends are reasonable good persons.. they dont steal etc...

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Picao84]

Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by projectvxn

 

oh, good. i usually have to stand on this side of crazy by myself.

i do not claim that my post above has any practical use in today's society. but really, i am not a very practical guy. rather, a true idealist. what i suggest is nothing short of utopia.

cheers to the new paradigm!

I suppose that everyone in your Utopia will starve to death because no one wants to work for anything. All those open hands of entitlement and no one to dish out the gruel.
A world full of entitlement seekers:
No electricity- no computer games
No running water
No sewer system
No fuel delivery of any sort
No food production
No production of any sort
No government to provide the handout
OMG no internet and no ATS
Just a complete collapse.

Utopia needs workers, not just any workers, but hard honest workers.

reply to post by jibeho


that is an unfair assumption for you to make!

no. this utopia looks a lot like John Galt's hidden valley.

a place where a person is afforded the opportunity to create something of value out of his own mind and hands. and trade that value with others, and collect the entire gain of his creation for himself. now that's what i call self-motivated.

it is, in fact, the exact opposite of today's society. we live in a world of looters and thieves. we live in a world where you must create on behalf of someone else. play by someone else's fabricated rules. power is consolidated. money (value) is fiat. all so much that you end up a cog in the works, retired at 65 and facing death having not exercised your full potential as a human.

so i ask again, "why should these kids want to join society?"

reply to post by tgidkp


I commend your efforts on a quest for a Utopia in your world. In my world, the only Utopia that is real is a lame band from the 70's. I am a realist. I can separate reality from fantasy.

Originally posted by poet1b
I think one of the keys is to let students learn at their own rate.

The formal education system is a lumbering beast that applies a narrow definition of 'learning' to the majority, those of us who learn in other ways are either expected to conform, or not succeed.

I was forever asking "why?" of my teachers at school and was labelled as being disruptive, wasn't allowed to follow my own way of learning, and consequently chose to not attend formal education, preferring the peace and quiet and freedom to roam in the city municipal library

If we force only one form of learning on those who learn in other ways then they will either drop out and find their own way and at their own pace, or resort to cheating to keep up with the game

[edit on 5-12-2008 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by Karlhungis

I agree with you. This is a reflection of society in general, not something that is isolated to high school students. Our culture is so full of lying and cheating right now it is insane. How are high school kids supposed to do something good when everywhere they look people are doing the wrong thing?

I agree with the posters who point to parenting. That is the first line of defense here but it would seem that most parents are allowing the TV and the schools to raise their children. If that is the choice that they make, how can they be surprised or disappointed when their children end up reflecting the poor values of our decaying culture?

good post