Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

reply to post by cerberusxp

Your comment does not add anything by postulating 12 dimensions. If there are 10 dimensions, a 7th dimensional being is necessary and sufficient to be called 'god'.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
Way to get around that one.

If a 40 yr old said he believed in the Easter Bunny, what would you think?

You are operating on the premise that god is not real here for your example. Because the Easter bunny is not real does not mean god is not real. You are trying to make a point by forcing acceptance of your point in the question.

But just to play along, I would think it was a bit odd. And then I would remember - his beliefs are neither proof or disproof of the eastern bunny. That I made up my mind on the Easter bunny by my own understanding, not based on because people said it was real or not.

The understandings from (false) idols are purely metaphorical & not to be taken literally. The bible is Very metaphorical and so extreme that if anyone Truly follows it, they indeed should be locked up and have the key thrown away.

The fact people do not read it correctly is not in itself proof of what is correct when read properly. And I'll bet you will point fingers at those who think you should be locked up and have the key thrown away.

Any Organized Religious Institution is defined as a Cult. There is No question about that. However, there is no convincing those who believe in their Higher False Idol. It's very difficult to make the blind see the light of reality and logic.

And how do you purpose to deal with such a thing? Do you suggest that we should act as they do, which was the reason they were wrong in the first place? What do you suppose we do to people who do not see everything as you do? Or as I do? Or as what the mainstream/majority of people say is the light of reality and logic? Use a bit of logic. Tell me, how do you purpose to be DIFFERENT than that of what you point fingers at.

I'm not saying there is No higher creator of the universe, I am saying there is NO RELIGIOUS BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR US. The Christian God is a myth as long with any other God our species decides to worship.

You are responsible for you. Do you even realize you are arguing against something based on what the people you claim do not understand do, rather than what it is you can understand from it?

I'm sorry, how does this prove God does not exist? All this proves is there are contradictory beliefs the men who wrote the bible had. Even Jesus's deciples had contradictory beliefs, but one in common, the message of love. just because men have disagreements in what God is and our destiny, does not in anyway disprove that there is a higher power. I believe that there is, but I will admit that religion and the bible itself are imperfect. That's all sin is, imperfection, humans were born of imperfection, no one can deny this. Then Jesus came along saying our sin or imperfection doesn't matter as long as you are humble and ask for forgiveness, from God, others and yourself.

Really, why do people attack God so? The message is of love and whether he lives or not, who cares, it's a darn good message and get of it's back. Why do some refuse to accept that we humans who are imperfect, don't know everything about the world, and the universe?

Originally posted by Badge01
reply to post by cerberusxp

 

Your comment does not add anything by postulating 12 dimensions. If there are 10 dimensions, a 7th dimensional being is necessary and sufficient to be called 'god'.

Dimensions are based on perception, rather than what is occupied. It is our perception that is 3d, not our actual being.

If your perception were 4d, then you could see where you are now, and where you are in the nearest dimensions at the same time.

To a 3d person, they can only perceive 1 of those dimensions. The 4d being could move into space just outside that 3d person and not see them. If that 4d being moved into the space of that 3d person, they would only see a single 3d part of the whole.

As a 4d being, you could perform magic to the 3d being. Because you keep an object outside the 3d perception it is in, and then bring it in to the single 3d perception. You could make an object move, by tugging on it(as the object is also there in the other dimensions) on it in another dimension where you are holding it, and then moving it in that dimension.

I think there is a part in the bible where it talks about Jesus was seen by angels as an angel, and by humans as a human and so on. Meaning, he was in multiple dimensions at the same time.

reply to post by Badge01


Michiu Kaku does calculate that there are indeed 7 universes. As the energy forces in our universe are strong yet gravity being the weakest being spred out over all 7.
By the way Michiu is a friend of mine.

[edit on 11/27/08 by cerberusxp]

Here's another reason in my opinion:

So if God made us in his image and only seems to care about us Earthlings than life on other planets must be impossible which is impossible. If you don't believe in the possibility of life beyond our planet, not including ET UFO's, then that is understandable but still shortsighted.

And here's another one:

If god made us to be loving creatures then why, when you look back through history, is there more grief than glory?

And this is what I say to people who try to convert me saying that all non-believers go to their hell for not abiding by their laws I say "I'd rather go to whatever "Hell" is than be in heaven with all you stuck up Christians." Not that I believe all Christians are stuck up but its a dis and it works so I use it when faced with a stuck up Christian attacking me with their religion.

Also, it is a know fact that the Bible was written long after Jesus's death so while the way he died might be true (disregarding the rebirth part), the supposed "words of God" could have been easily made up to the writer's liking.

I really don't give a crap that people actually believe in religion usually because they were brought up in it or converted for social and mental needs but these are some of my strongest opinions against it.

[edit on 11/27/08 by MoothyKnight]

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Sorry but you're wrong.

But Jesus looked at them and said, With men this is impossible, but all things are possible with God. - Matt. 19:26

He doesn't say 'all things are possible to God which are possible to human logic'.
That would be rather pointless...

Wooooooooooooooosh

I guess my post went by you. The question is a logical contradiction. It is not a legitimate question. It's the language used not the challenge. It's a nonsensical use of language.

A two sided triangle. A married bachelor. Omnipotent weakness.
It's a silly word game not a deep philosophical question.

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by iismtivu

 

sun worship is the first form of religion...

This alone says it all to me. I was raised around others who were devout Christians and once, at the age of 8, was told I was going to hell because I didn't go to church. I asked a simple question and that was "If he is God - can't I pray to him anywhere?" I was told there is no other way. This was my introduction to question Christianity. As I got older I kept questioning - though I don't know the Bible - I tried reading it and had a hard time comprehending the very contradictions within it. My main question was this: If God created the universe - who created God? It was this big question that no one could answer and especially my Christians friends. They would throw scripture my way and I would have to interpret it as - because that is what the Bible says.

The third time in my life I questioned Christianity's way of expressing itself through the Bible was when I stumbled upon a video, which I'm sure some of you have seen.
Zeigeist

I'm not saying I don't believe in a hire power, but when this movie brought up the fact that the story of Jesus was based soley off of a religion based on the Sun's movements - how am I to believe the rest of the Bible isn't just stories that teach us lessons on how to be good? Good and Evil are simply relative - just like truth. I say if a Christian uses the Bible as a guide to be a better person - than there is nothing wrong with that. However, those who I've dealt with in the passed, who claim the Bible to be based on true events - than I say that God is not righteous, but spiteful and perplexing. We will never agree, but we can simply accept that there is a reason we are all different and that includes our beliefs. That I think is a lesson we all should learn.

Originally posted by MoothyKnight

And this is what I say to people who try to convert me saying that all non-believers go to their hell for not abiding by their laws I say "I'd rather go to whatever "Hell" is than be in heaven with all you stuck up Christians." Not that I believe all Christians are stuck up but its a dis and it works so I use it when faced with a stuck up Christian attacking me with their religion.
[edit on 11/27/08 by MoothyKnight]

The only problem with that is ....if they were Christians who just talk the talk ...and do not walk the walk ...they will be in your hell with you .....so you will not be getting away from them ...but be right in there with them .for eternity (imagine that )
There are some who think they are Christian but are not ..the Lord says he will say to them ..Depart from me I never knew you to them ...

You better hope that they were really Christians and that they are praying for you ...because their prayers may get answered concerning your salvation ...

[edit on 27-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by WonderingSoul


I could answer a lot of your post. First God is eternal - by definition he requires no creator. We know from the Big Bang that time had a beginning so he exists outside of time since he created time. So that was not that hard to answer. What concerns me most is this....

Good and Evil are simply relative - just like truth.

There is certainly absolute truth! Is 1 +1 =2 just your opinion or is it true? And there are certainly absolute morals. If it's just opinions then there is no difference between Hitler and Jesus - just your opinion. We know something is wrong when we compare it to a standard, the existence of the standard proves their is absolute morality. the problem is peoples perceptions of the circumstances are not always consistent.

I'm going to sleep, too much turkey, so no debate, but watch this and think about it if you can. Good night.

reply to post by nj2day


Religeon has to be the biggest Con ever perpetrated on Man-Kind.
And like religeon, I don't have to prove anything, only it is what it is
and therefore it is.

reply to post by badmedia


No, you aren't the only one either. I walked the path for a short time and don't believe in organized religion. Most spiritualists don't. The bible also says, "Knock, and ye shall receive." I don't know ONE Christian that has walked the path and communed with their true essence. The Egyptians called it the "Ka".

The gods of the OT are not my gods. They are the "Nefilim", those that came down from above. You can see evidence of them in the Sumerian artifacts. They are called the "Annunaki". You can read about them through Zachariah Sitchin.

As for the "anointed" one, that pertains to anyone that attains the "christ consciousness" or "higher consciousnes". It's spoonbending real and is a wonderful transformation. It is possible for each of us to literally become the "christ" and activate the pinial gland. Then, all things are possible. We are much more than flesh and blood.

reply to post by nj2day


The bible(s) is wrong, they were created in the image of man. No, I am not a christian, because I do not belive in that life. What I do belive is, I do know that God is real, and Jesus, aswell. I know that they are in the 'Kingdom of God'.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I personally believe in the multiverse model, but that is just a belief. That's the problem. Beliefs, by their very nature, are lies, not facts. As far as this discussion is concerned, everyone seems to accept the assumption (belief) that the biblical Jehovah (YHWH) is the supreme being, creator of the universe. That is nonsense.

If Jehovah was omniscient, why couldn't he find Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden? He had to call out and ask them where they were.

If he was so benevolent, then why did he slaughter so many of his "chosen people" for minor infractions such as picking up a stick on the sabbath, trying to keep the ark of the covenant from falling from its frame work, masturbation, being hungry, etc.

If he was so spiritual, why did he need and want so many barbecues, usually of sheep? Why did he send two "she bears" into a group of young children to kill 42 of them for calling Elisha "baldy"?

I don't know who or what Jehovah was, but God he wasn't.

reply to post by Supercertari

Now you, perhaps (probably?), don't accept this, many Christians don't either but it is my guarantee that what the Church teaches and interprets in Scripture is truth.

Your right, I don't accept it. I find this whole "read the scriptures with the spirit of the holy ghost" thing a bit problematic, because all it means you have to convince yourself it's true when you read it even if it doesn't make sense or is completely wrong. It's not an enlightening thing, it's nothing but a mental blinder, otherwise more Christians would wake up to how preposterous it all really is.

Interpreting = subjective
Holy Ghost = surrendering one's sense of reason so that anything you want can make sense in a cosmic kinda way.

Stupidity.

[edit on 28/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by tonypresser

I don't know who or what Jehovah was, but God he wasn't.

Indeed, well said. If it escapes reason and sanity thing it's a load of garbage.

reply to post by nj2day

(First of all I'd like to point out that I'm not a Christian per say. Just defending for sake of argument)
Well I could spend this whole entire post, just correcting your grammar. Rather, I am going to, as you put it, "unravel" your theory.

First of all (yeah you started off poorly too), you contradicted yourself hoping people wouldn't see the lie within the first full paragraph. Stating that the NT says to take the OT literally, then stating why said religion is a sham since you can't take the the OT literally? Make sense? Yeah I didn't get it either..
Anyway, then you went on to state an opinion as a fact: Such as: "If god is Omniscient, than he knows your future. If he knows your future, than it is already set in stone..." So where in the Bible does it say it's set in stone again? Fakety McBull# 12:34 perhaps? I do believe that God knows your future, but if you want to play the Strawman, I'll bite. Since God is all knowing he knows everything. Everything does not include things that hasn't happened yet because it doesn't exist yet, now is it?


Anyway, I could go on but but I'm tired, ready for nighty nite, a little incoherent, so if I babbled my B. Alright guys see you on the flip!

Originally posted by irishjon1973
reply to post by nj2day

 

I will say a prayer for you

Peace.

PERFECTLY DONE! That is what is needed from Christians...

Don't argue with me...just say a prayer for me...I LOVE IT!

As someone else said (badmedia I think), I also found the truth outside of religion before I found it again in religion. God called me to him and really, there is no way to really explain that to someone else in words. It's something you have to experience for yourself.

Also, as someone else eluded to, the Bible is "coded" with future predictions and God has used this code to show me future events before they occured more than once including 9/11, which I knew about 10 months before it happened. At that time though, I didn't give it much accountability as at that point in my life, I had just turned from being athiest for much of my teenage life and was nothing at that point religious wise. When it happened, I knew the Bible was real, but it still took time and several more predictions for me to come around to my faith. When something like this happens, it's easy to think that it was so incredible that it couldn't have possibly happened even though I knew damn well that it did.

I didn't look into Bible code after 2005 because it really freaked me out that God had shown me the future down to the exact dates three times in a two month period during this year. They were Hurricane Katrina (August 29th), the 8.5 Kashmir earthquake (October 8th) and the France riots (October 27th). I looked at it again a couple days ago though and now I have more predictions for 2009 to look out for.

This code is only found in the original Hebrew texts and many of these codes are found in Genesis. While God was inspiring the writings in Genesis, he was also encoding prophesy to specific events that wouldn't happen for over 2000 years! These codes are scattered throughout the texts and are only found using computers. The point is that the Bible is real and was inspired by the all knowing christian God. If it was "just a story", these predicting codes would not be found in text that was written over 2000 years ago. That is why I know the Bible is real. God has shown himself to me in many ways, this being only one.

I will say this, though. The Bibles we read today are most definitely altered with human words. I do think some of the message is lost or made confusing and contradictory as a result. The so called "lost books" is an inaccurate statement as these were never books of the Bible to begin with. I think this is because it was not written by a prophet and therefore would not have been inspired by God. These books were written with human minds.

I've enjoyed reading this thread.

Edited to add: I should also say that some predictions of the code either don't happen or don't happen on the dates they are first encoded. The Bible code to me reveal possibilities based on the choices people make, but some of them are by no means guaranteed to happen. Events can be sped up or delayed based on how we use our free will, but eventually, the prophesies of the end times must come to pass. This supports some opinions earlier on in the thread that there are many possible fates and destinies for humans based on their choices, but only to a point because as I said, the end must come to pass eventually.

[edit on 28-11-2008 by Kratos1220]

Edited to add (I edit too much): The one exception to the "lost books" comment is the book of Enoch. This book was rejected by the Romans probably because Enoch was a son of Cain. Cain was the offspring of the serpent, or the Antichrist. Enoch was definitely made a prophet, though.

[edit on 28-11-2008 by Kratos1220]

> 1) If god is Omnipotent, can he make an object so heavy
> he cannot lift it himself?

There are many questions of this nature one could pose here. They are all equally inane. Just because God can't do something (like make a circle with four sides), doesn't mean his power is limited. You are limited in understanding his power.

> 2) Free will: If god is Omniscient, than he knows your future.
> If he knows your future, than it is already set in stone. Therefore
> Free will cannot exist...

This is a non-sequitur. When the weatherman tells you what the weather will be tomorrow, it's not because he made it that way. He's just telling you how it will be.

We use our free will to choose our life's path. Yes, God can see it all. But that doesn't mean he has anything to do with it (unless you let him, of course).

> 3) If god is all knowing, and all powerful, and the creator of all...
> then he must know who is doomed to hell before they are born.

He offers a "Get Out of Jail Free" card knowing there will be those who will refuse it. Is that God's fault or the person who refuses? Don't forget there will be ones who receive it.

> Surely he knew what you would decide before you were
> given the option. Therefore, choosing to believe or not to
> believe is not your choice, but is predestined before you were born.

You make it seem like you have no choice. But you do. What you will choose is already known by God, but it's not known by you. Choose wisely.

> 4) If god knows who is doomed to hell before their are born and
> allows them to be created anyway, than he is sentencing people to
> eternal damnation for sins never committed...

It was like this from the very beginning. The conundrum of "Do I or don't I?" He created Adam and Eve, knowing full well they would trip and stumble into disobedience (by the deceit of a crafty servant/serpent). God's reason was to have a creation that would be like him in character and be able to reproduce (apparently angels can't). He wanted a relationship with us... you and me. We are creative like God. We can reproduce. We can, by experiencing his love, choose to love him back.

Should he have made robots who have no choice? That apparently wouldn't have been satisfying. So he made creatures with free will, who could choose to love him back. That also means they could choose not to, no matter what he did for them.

> 5) If god is Omniscient, knowing what will happen in the future,
> then he can not use his omnipotence to change the outcome...

He did that by offering a sacrifice for man so that we may be pardoned. God had laws, which had penalties (just like we have laws and appropriate punishments). Here on earth, you don't disagree with punishment for criminals, correct? In God's government, sin- which basically breaks down to "hurting self or others"- is punishable by death. Sin is a disease and causes pain and suffering. God wants to get rid of that, and the only way is by showing everybody the results of sin- a world of pain and death. (See Exhibit 1: Planet Earth - what happens when beings turn from God.)

Do you propose he violate your free will to "change the outcome?" When you say "change the outcome," do you mean by force? Because he is changing the outcome, except by the drawing power of his love.

> God, bound by his own omniscience is completely powerless
> to do anything but watch events unfold.

Yeah, pretty much. The only control he has on planet earth is of the human being who has given him control of his/her life. Even then, it's not perfect control, because we can always take that control back.

> The Christian god can not exist the way he has been presented.

This is very true. For example, most of Christendom believes that a "loving" father would torture his unruly children in hellfire for ever and ever. This seems to be an act to describe a sick and twisted dictator, not a loving father. But that's a topic for another day.