What Happened to Frederick Valentich? Possibly the scariest UFO case ever

There is in fact a recording of the transmissions as I listened to it at some point in the past 2-4 years? But damned if I can give you any leads as to where it was. Google and Wiki I guess. From what I remember, he was pretty matter of fact about the whole thing and not very excitable.

reply to post by tezzajw


I watched the video & thats not the same TV crew. Also, the video I saw was very detailed with good long shots of the object.

There's a very interesting paper, from Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 14, No. 1, pp. 19–33, 2000 [0892-3310/00] (© 2000 Society for Scientific Exploration)

Valentich Disappearance: New Evidence and a New Conclusion
By:

RICHARD F. HAINES
325 Langton Avenue
Los Altos, CA 94022

and

PAUL NORMAN
Victorian UFO Research Society
P.O. Box 43
Moorabbin, 3189 Australia


This paper presents new evidence regarding the disappearance of Frederick Valentich: the testimony of three witnesses is given, each of whom claim they saw an airplane descending downward at a steep angle with a much larger object with green lights flying just above it. A plot of the most probable flight path is also included (see below). Based on this new evidence (and the Official Voice Transcript Between Flight Service (FS) and the Cessna Aircraft (DSJ) ), the authors came to conclude that

there appears to be sufficient evidence to suggest that Valentich’s airplane probably crashed into the sea SE of Cape Marengo between 3 and 12 miles offshore, and that the nature of the large object with green lights that accompanied the airplane during its steep descent remains to be identified

.

According to his flight plan, Valentich planned to climb to at least 4,500 feet altitude for his water crossing (for safety and visibility reasons). We assume that he made this ascent well before reaching Apollo Bay. Several eyewitnesses observed his blue and white Cessna from the resort town of Apollo Bay as it flew SW over the water at an unspecified distance.
Several local pilots have pointed out that it is normal procedure to “cut the
corner” at the cape when flying to King Island (i.e., not to fly all the way
to Point Franklin, Crayfish Bay, or the lighthouse itself before turning left
for King Island. Valentich had flown this same route in the past, and
presumably, he cut the corner on this flight as well. Doing so would shorten his trip by about 6 miles, saving both time and fuel. Indeed, Norman (1991) interviewed fishermen who had camped along the Parker River (south of Point Lewis) that night. They apparently saw the Cessna make this turn about 3 to 4 miles ENE of the Cape Otway lighthouse.

Enlarged scale chart of region from Apollo Bay to Cape Otway

For a better understanding of the map, i repost the Official Voice Transcript Between Flight Service (FS) and the Cessna Aircraft (DSJ)

Time (GMT) | From | To | Text
9:06:14 DSJ FS Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet. Is there any known traffic below five thousand?’
9:06:23 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—No known traffic.
9:06:26 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet. I am—seems (to) be a large aircraft below 5,000.
9:06:46 FS DSJ D Delta Sierra Juliet—What type of aircraft is it?
9:06:50 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet—I cannot affirm. It is four bright … it seems to me like landing lights.
9:07:04 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. [This statement affirms to the pilot that the person on the ground heard his transmission.]
9:07:32 DSJ FS Melbourne, this (is) Delta Sierra Juliet. The aircraft has just
passed over me at least a thousand feet above.
9:07:43 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—Roger—and it, it is a large aircraft—confirm?
9:07:47 DSJ FS Er, unknown due to the speed it’s travelling… is there any airforce aircraft in the vicinity?~
9:07:57 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. No known aircraft in the vicinity.
9:08:18 DSJ FS Melbourne… it’s approaching now from due east~ towards me.~
9:08:28 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet.
9:08:42 DSJ FS //Open microphone for two seconds//
9:08:49 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet. It seems to me that he’s playing some
sort of game.’—He’s flying over me two—three times at a time at
speeds I could not identify.’
9:09:02 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—Roger. What is your actual level?
9:09:06 DSJ FS My level is four and a half thousand, four five zero zero.~
9:09:11 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet… And confirm—you cannot identify the aircraft.
9:09:14 DSJ FS Affirmative.’
9:09:18 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—Roger… standby.
9:09:28 DSJ FS Melbourne—Delta Sierra Juliet. It’s not an aircraft’… it is
//open microphone for two seconds// [This duration measured as
three seconds. No information appears to have been removed
from the tape.]
9:09:46 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—Melbourne. Can you describe the…er—aircraft?

9:09:52 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet… as it’s flying past it’s a long shape’
//open microphone for three seconds // (cannot) identify more than that.
It has such speed //open microphone for three seconds //. It is before
me right now Melbourne.’
9:10:07 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—Roger. And how large would the —er—object be?
9:10:20 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet—Melbourne. It seems like it’s (stationary). [Author R.H. has determined that this word should be “chasing
me” based on special filtering]. What I’m doing right now is orbiting, and the thing is just orbiting on top of me also’ … It’s gota green light,’ and sort of metallic (like)~. It’s all shiny (on) the outside.~
9:10:43 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet.
9:10:48 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet // open microphone for 5 seconds //
[measured as 3 seconds] It’s just vanished.’
9:10:57 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet.
9:11:03 DSJ FS Melbourne would you know what kind of aircraft I’ve got?’ It is (a type) military aircraft?’
9:11:08 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Confirm the… er—aircraft just vanished.
9:11:14 DSJ FS Say again.
9:11:17 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Is the aircraft still with you?’
9:11:23 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet… It’s ah… Nor //open microphone for two seconds// (now) approaching from the southwest.
9:11:37 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet
9:11:52 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet - The engine is, is rough idling. —I’ve got it set at twenty three—twenty four… and the thing is—coughing.
9:12:04 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet—Roger. What are your intentions?
9:12:09 DSJ FS My intentions are—ah… to go to King Island—Ah, Melbourne, that strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again //open microphone for two seconds// it is hovering and it’s not an aircraft.
9:12:22 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet.
9:12:28 DSJ FS Delta Sierra Juliet—Melbourne //open microphone for 17
seconds// [A very strange pulsed noise is also audible during this
transmission.]
9:12:49 FS DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, Melbourne.
End of official DoT transcript


Note: — = a normal pause in communications (based on the first author’s
flying experience);
… = a longer than normal pause (i.e., several seconds);
‘ = an upward ending voice inflection (such as an interrogative question); ~ = a downward voice inflection.
Parentheses ( ) enclose words that are open to interpretation because they are not clearly audible.
Brackets [ ] enclose the authors’ comments.

Source: Valentich Disappearance: New Evidence and a New Conclusion
Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 14, No. 1, pp. 19–33, 2000
© 2000 Society for Scientific Exploration

The paper is extremely well researched, and as tezzajw already pointed out, Paul Norman is most likely, if not for sure, the person who knows more about this case. It would be a GREAT to get in touch with him, also in order to find the photos taken by Roy Manifold: did someone already try to contact him?

reply to post by internos


Cool, Internos. That's the same article that's in the UFOlogist magazine that I will get my hands on in around 10 hours time!

The same map is printed inside.

At least it's online now, for everyone to see!

reply to post by internos


About those Roy Manifold photographs I think Evasius has already found one back on page 3. In the caption in the photo it dosen't say who took the photo but they were taken 20mins before the disappearence, from Otway. The same time and location as Manifold, so I think we can say that this is probably one of his photographs. Unfortuantly it says there is a series of six photographs with the UFO, but Evasius said he didn't see the others perhaps he could look again.

It's great to hear these things, especially when it's in your own country.
Haven't really been aware of much UFO activity in Australia.
Creepy though

Originally posted by Steve B
reply to post by internos

 

About those Roy Manifold photographs I think Evasius has already found one back on page 3. In the caption in the photo it dosen't say who took the photo but they were taken 20mins before the disappearence, from Otway. The same time and location as Manifold, so I think we can say that this is probably one of his photographs. Unfortuantly it says there is a series of six photographs with the UFO, but Evasius said he didn't see the others perhaps he could look again.

Yes, i saw it, thanks, Steve B:
this documentary seems to confirm that it is the good one (Fwd. to 4:03)

and yes, of course i meant the full sequence of six frames: here are some informations about them from the Sunday Herald Sun, Edition 1
FIRST SUN 15 OCT 2000, Page 016

UFO mystery deepens
By PAUL TAYLOR

The key to advance the claims of UFO involvement in the disappearance of Mr Valentich and his Cessna was a series of six photographs taken by camera enthusiast Roy Manifold.
Pinkney writes: ``Roy had set up an Olympus tripod camera and taken
six photographs of the sunset over Bass Strait.
``The first three frames show a perfect spring sunset. On the fourth
picture, a mountain of water erupts from behind a rock in the calm
sea.
``In the fifth shot the ocean is flat calm again. And in the sixth
photograph, a strange object can be seen streaking upward from the
ocean and into the sky, in a visible blur of speed.''
Soon after the disappearance, Pinkney took negatives to the chief
photographer at The Australian newspaper, Mike Arthur.
After ascertaining there was no fault in the negatives, no flaw in
the emulsion and no hitch in the processing, Arthur said the object
was real and had been in the sky over Bass Strait at sunset.
The caption that accompanied the picture on page one of The
Australian the next morning pondered whether this might have been the
UFO that took Mr Valentich.
Pinkney then writes: ``The RAAF's response was swift. Without
troubling himself to study the original photographs, a spokesman
announced that the UFO we had reproduced was nothing more than a
cumulus cloud in its dying stages.''
It did not take any time to knock over that finding.
``Roy Manifold had taken his photographs at roughly 20-second
intervals (an estimate borne out by the sun's position in the six
frames),'' Pinkney writes.
``The `cloud' only appears in the sixth picture, nine degrees into
frame. If, as appears, it is about 1.5km from the camera, this
remarkable cloud must therefore have been travelling at 193kmh.''
The Manifold photographs were then subjected to assessment by
physicists and aerospace engineers at the United States organisation
Ground Saucer Watch.
The critique, signed by director William Spaulding and photographic
consultant Fred Adrian, found the ``Bass Strait object was extremely
bright when compared with other features in the photographs. Judging
from the intensely reflective area at its `top', it was possibly
metallic in construction''.
The scientists found the object was about 1.6km from the camera and
was about six metres in diameter. The scientists concluded the image
was a bona fide unidentified flying object of moderate dimensions,
apparently surrounded by a cloud-like exhaust or vapor residue.

Source

Great job Evasius btw

Actually there seems to be a lot of activity all over Australia. The media choose whether it is good light entertainment stories, occasionally taken seriously. I am sure a lot of the desert activity is military. These stories seem to get buried fast. Unfortunatley the reason is usually that desert folk, farmers and aborigines are not taken seriously. There is heaps of activity reported since the 70's around Pine Gap. There are some pretty impressive cases. It all starts with the Tully Nest in QLD late 60's.
The FV case received a lot of attention at the time. Look up the classic Westall School (Melbourne) ufo sighting of the lates 1960's. Hundreds of witnesses on the outskirts of Melbourne. There is a lot of activity in the Dandenongs in Melbourne, and the Blue Mountains.
Also this case involving journalists investigating the FV case. The footage has never been debunked.
www.scientificexploration.org...
This site has a good summary of credible aussi sightings too.
www.project1947.com...

first off, who says that the conversation is even legit in the first place? Next, it is not possible for something just to vanish without a trace, everything must go somewhere....but in this case was there even a search party? Finally, the part about the uncle and niece rabbit hunting, why would they withhold that information when somebody's existence was on the line and could not be found? Anyway good story, but thats about how far it goes.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
first off, who says that the conversation is even legit in the first place?

I can see why you're posting annonymously, as you really have no idea - do you?

It was a recorded conversation between Valentich and Melbourne Flight Services.

Next, it is not possible for something just to vanish without a trace, everything must go somewhere....but in this case was there even a search party?

Have you bothered to read a single word in this thread, or click on any of the numerous links given? The RAAF was involved in the search. I'll let you read the rest.

Finally, the part about the uncle and niece rabbit hunting, why would they withhold that information when somebody's existence was on the line and could not be found?

Have you read the link to the journal article that Internos placed a few posts above? The witness spoke to his wife that night and to his friends at work the next day. No one took him seriously, so he dropped it until years later when he was speaking to a policeman, who happened to know Guido.

Anyway good story, but thats about how far it goes.

Try actually reading and understanding the story, you might appreciate it more.

reply to post by OzWeatherman

I am interested in anyone's alternative theories one to :-)

I am going to U2 you...

with son....

An uncle, his son and two nieces were rabbit hunting at Cape Otway. A niece looked up and saw the green light and called to her uncle, "What is that light?" The uncle looked up and answered,

orwithout son...

He had seen with his two nieces

Big article about Without Son

Could someone please indicate,
Well, which one is it???

There is either a son there seeing this or not--however there are two stories indicating different individuals concerning the same individuals.

Either an uncle was there with his son and two neices---
Or....an uncle was there with his two neices.

Did someone already spot this? My appologees.


reply to post by OzWeatherman

In my opinion He saw an exceptionally long lasting sub duct green flash. ( rare atmospheric effect seen at sunrise or sunset). There were 18 mins of daylight left when he took off, this would put him in the correct time frame. Lots of people reported seing green lights that same evening . Green flash looks like a green tube or disc with bright lights inside it. Exactly what he reported. When it is observed from a plane. This separates entirely from the solar disc and looks just like a UFO.( See web photos). He first reports the object below him on the horizon, classical for a green flash. At this point, the young man gets excited and fixated on getting a better view of the object and forgets about flying the plane. He is trying to see an object that is dissapearing on the horizon so he is probably lifting one wing and increasing elevation , the object is now appearing to dissappear and reappear, this is because he is now flying in a circle. And he is becoming disorientated. The plane is rough idling because he is starving the engine , His last report states object directly overhead, indicates he has or very nearly has flipped his plane. The gravity feed cuts out and he crashes.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
In my opinion He saw an exceptionally long lasting sub duct green flash. He first reports the object below him on the horizon, classical for a green flash.

The sun sets in the West. The witnesses also saw the green light over the plane but they were looking towards the South-East, to the darkened sky, away from the setting sun.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
In my opinion He saw an exceptionally long lasting sub duct green flash. ( rare atmospheric effect seen at sunrise or sunset).

HAH. HAH. Very funny. This is so lame. Please, anyone who knew anything about the green flash would know that it is nothing but the most transitory phenomena that can be missed if you blink your eyes. To proclaim this as an explanation for Valentich's sighting is just plain (excuse me) idiotic.

This is a joke , right?

Very good find, Oz. Starred and flagged to read more once I'm off work.
Thanks again for finding this.

Agreed green flash usually lasts 1-15 seconds . however exceptionally long sightings of upto 35 min are on record. Time -lapse photography of the setting sun that day was demonstrating unusual solar phenomena, bear in mind green flash does not appear until after the sun has set. This young man would never have seen the very large and bright sub duct green flash before, he had a known interest in UFOs ( previously claimed to have seen one). He would have automatically believed he was seeing one, at this point he lost the plot.(including his orientation) There were weird atmospherics that night and what he saw was a green flash because he was in a plane he had the best seat in the house and had a particularly long sighting. Only one percent of green flashes are sub ducts and even less than that are long lasting but that doesnt exclude the possibility that it can occur. Can eyewitness be completely certain of their orentation at night? Frederick died by flipping his plane whilst chasing an atmospheric phenomenon.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
however exceptionally long sightings of upto 35 min are on record.

Nice try, that story has been debunked. It was seen near the south pole by the Admiral Byrd expedition. The meteorologist on Byrds ship actually came up with why the flash appeared on-off in the time period of 35 minutes. The story was incorrectly passed on, and explained as a green flash persisting for 35 minutes when that was not the case

of this episode says merely that the polar sunset was “prolonged” by the Sun

. . . appearing and reappearing from behind the barrier surface.

Hence we had a series of sunsets. The “green sun,” as our men called it, lasted 35 minutes.

Even from this brief account it is obvious that the green was not seen continuously for 35 minutes, but only off and on. A fuller account was published by the expedition's meteorologist, W. C. Haines, who explained that

. . . the sun was skirting the southern horizon, its disk disappearing at intervals only to reappear again a few moments later. . . . The irregularities in the snow surface permitted the upper limb of the sun to appear in one or more starlike points of light from adjacent notches. These points or flares of light would sometimes have a greenish color on their appearance or disappearance. The length of time during which the green flare was visible varied from a fraction of a second to several seconds.... When the sun sank too low to be seen from the ground, it was still visible from elevated points such as the anemometer post or radio towers. The above effect was seen at intervals during a period lasting over half an hour.

The incorrect story that Anonymous was referring to was

Richard Byrd, on one of his expeditions to the south pole, saw the green flash for an amazing 35 minutes, as the rising sun slid across the horizon at the end of the long, dark winter.

Sorry, that theory is debunked

mintaka.sdsu.edu...

reply to post by OzWeatherman

Thank you for posting this. I recall the event very well: I was in my 20's and living in South Australia at the time and it received very heavy coverage in the mass media. I distinctly recall that the voice recordings between the pilot and the tower (in Melbourne) were played on TV news reports, so it's puzzling to me that there are no copies available via the various media companies' archives.

Back in 1978 I was living near the Barossa Valley, in an area that had quite a history of UFO sightings and the strange "angel hair" substance, so I was quite interested in what the outcome of the search would be. The fact that no wreckage was located is not entirely surprising; if the aircraft did ditch into the rather treacherous waters of Bass Strait then it could well be that the main parts sank and whatever residue may have been left on the surface would have dispersed rather rapidly.

I think we do have to keep in mind that Valentich was not a highly-experienced pilot. As the official report shows, he only had about 150 hours logged. This doesn't deny the presence of the UFO. He clearly saw something flying and he couldn't identify it, ergo it was a UFO. But he might have been distracted by it to such a degree that he didn't focus on maintaining level flight and flew into the sea. Granted, that might sound unlikely to some but it dos happen, and in the recordings you could hear what didn't come across so well in the transcripts, namely that he was pretty disturbed by what was going on. He sounded pretty scared, to be frank about it. That's not a criticism, though. Under the circumstances I'd probably feel like he did.

Where he says:

1911:50 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, the engine is rough-idling. I've got it set at twenty three twenty-four and the thing is coughing.

he didn't mean rough-idling but rough-running. A minor distinction, we might think -- but not to pilots, who tend to be pretty precise when reporting any engine abnormalities. He had the engine speed set "at twenty three twenty-four" -- meaning 2300 to 2400 rpm, a pretty normal cruise speed, so if it was starting to run rough then it could be that he'd lost a lot of altitude and the mixture needed adjusting. This is why I suspect he wasn't keeping a close enough eye on his altitude and horizon. He reported his altitude of 4500 feet at 19:09 but reported the engine problem almost three minutes later, which is quite enough time to lose a lot of altitude. My own feeling at the time was that he'd flown into the sea, but I remain open on what it was that he saw.

I never saw any reports of this event that connected it to photographs of an object taking off from the sea at around that time. In fact, I don't recollect even hearing of any such photographs. I suspect I'd recall them if I had done. Perhaps they surfaced later. I don't know. I only know that Valentich was never seen again.

Regards,

Mike

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
first off, who says that the conversation is even legit in the first place? Next, it is not possible for something just to vanish without a trace, everything must go somewhere....but in this case was there even a search party? Finally, the part about the uncle and niece rabbit hunting, why would they withhold that information when somebody's existence was on the line and could not be found? Anyway good story, but thats about how far it goes.

Okay, perhaps I can help a little here. The event happened. The conversation between Valentich and the tower were aired before the SAR had even been concluded. I know this because I heard it, like millions of other Aussies did at the time, let alone others around the world.

It is perfectly possible for something to vanish without trace, especially a small plane over the open sea, and especially in the notoriously rough waters of Bass Strait. If I ever had to ditch, this region would be very low of my list of places where I'd have good hopes of being found. It's not just the waters, it's the darned sharks which abound in southern Australian waters.

You ask if there was a "search party" so perhaps you don't understand procedure. There was an SAR -- a Search and Rescue operation -- as there always is in Australia and many other countries when an aircraft goes missing. It is literally SOP, and in fact upon landing at the end of a flight, if you've filed a flight plan it is common courtesy to inform Tower to "cancel SAR". The whole point of a flight plan is to give the SAR co-ordinators a starting point of reference to look for you if your aircraft goes down or simply doesn't arrive. Even if there is no flight plan -- as alleged in Valentich's case, which I find suspicious as he normally filed one -- it is still SOP to launch an SAR effort when the craft is either overdue or is known to be lost. The flight plan can make it easier but without one, they work by starting at the most likely, last known position. If you read the official report, which is shown on this thread, then you'd see that it gives the start time for the SAR and the result, so why you ask if there was a "search party" is beyond me -- unless you have not bothered to read the thread!!!

I don't know about the Uncle and Niece out rabbit hunting so can't comment on it. I do know that there were several sightings reported at that time because the MSM referred to them, but the one you mentioned doesn't spring to mind. But the main thing is that the aircraft and its pilot were lost in that general area off the the coast of Victoria, Australia, on that day. It doesn't matter if you choose to imply it never happened. It did. This site is about denying ignorance, not creating it. Okay?

Finally, it is not a "good story", it's a tragic event. The pilot's family have had no true "closure" and no doubt still grieve for him. Perhaps you think about that before you post such remarks in future.

Thanks.

Mike
Edit for typos.


[edit on 11/11/08 by JustMike]