Myth: More Evidence for Jesus Than Julius Caesar

As far as coins go ..

www.goldline.com...
The "histamenon nomisma" is an ancient gold coin from the Byzantine era. Also referred to as "gold Byzants", these are some of the early gold coins to feature Jesus Christ. Goldline is pleased to present a limited number of these gold coins - ranging from 800 to 1000 years old - excavated from a buried cache in the ancient Middle East region.



Israel Archaeologists Find Rare 'Jesus Coins'

July 7, 1999

JERUSALEM - One-thousand-year-old coins found near the Sea of Galilee bear the likeness of Jesus and have Greek inscriptions praising him, Israeli archaeologists announced on Wednesday.

The coins were unearthed in October in archaeological excavations at the site of ancient Tiberias in northern Israel but only during a cleaning of the find last month did archaeologists discover the image of Jesus on 58 of the 82 coins.

Some coins also bore Greek inscriptions such as "Jesus the Messiah, the King of Kings," and "Jesus, the Messiah, the Victor."

"This is the largest collection of these types of coins. They are very rare," said archaeologist Yizhar Hirschfeld, who co-directed the excavations.

Archaeologists also found many types of bronze utensils dating from the 10th and 11th centuries, when the Islamic Fatimid ruled the region.

Hirschfeld said the coins were probably brought from Constantinople to Tiberias by Christian pilgrims.

"We know Tiberias was a mixed city, where Jews, Moslems and Christians all lived together. Tiberias was a pilgrimage site." Hirschfeld said.

Archaeologists found the coins and other objects in three large clay pots hidden under the floor of a structure. The Crusaders destroyed ancient Tiberias at the end of the 11th century but the invaders did not discover the coin hoard.
uts.cc.utexas.edu...

Ancient Byzantine Coins of Jesus Christ c1000 AD
www.trocadero.com...

reply to post by Simplynoone


These coins are highly questionable.

A few years ago there was a find of "Jesus" coins in Northern Israel. The archeologists who reported the finds talked about how rare the coins were and gave new light on Muslim and Christian relations. In reality they were gold Byzantine solidi minted in the early 1000's. That archeologist needed some....

This seems an odd story, it is incomprehensible how an archaeologist working in Israel could be unable to identify such a coin. Barely believable in fact. So I decided to try to look into these sad allegations of artefactological ignorance. As far as I can find out from colleagues working in the area, there were no “gold Byzantine solidi”(sic) minted in the early 11th century found in northern Israel in the period mentioned. There was however some newspaper coverage of finds made by Byzantine specialist Prof. Yizhar Hirschfeld in Tiberias. It would seem that these are the coins referred to. But these are anonymous folles, struck in copper alloy not "gold". We are clearly dealing with more of the mythmaking endemic in US amateur numismatic circles. I cannot see where there is a problem here in what Hirschfeld said and why he allegedly "needs a coin collector". Hirschfeld was a specialist in Byzantine archaeology and I think we can assume he well knew what these coins were

paul-barford.blogspot.com...


There is also one big difference.These 'Jesus coins' if real,existed long after his death.Caeser's coins were minted during his life time.





[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]

[These 'Jesus coins' if real,existed long after his death.Caeser's coins were minted during his life time. ]

Seriously do you really believe that there would have been any coins with Christ on them made during the time he was here ?Considering he was sought out by all of the Governing bodies of that time to be gotten rid of ..they wouldnt even allow any talk of him let alone making coins with him on it .....And even after the fact they were killing all of the Apostles then we get to the 70 Ad destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem ...I doubt anyone would have been making any coins of Christ during even that time .....anyone who knew of Christ was sought out and killed ..........
We have talked about this before ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


Constantine had to convert an entire empire to christianity. That seriously cannot be an easy feat. Others had attempted to swing the publics views so diametrically as well and failed. An example is Akhenaten who converted the ancient egyptian empire to monotheism. HE was almost erased from history. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jesus coins existed as part of Constantine's propaganda to aide that shift to monotheism.

Ether way coins are meant to promote a power figure, and if the coins were made long after the individual died and who was heading an all new religion then coins are a bit iffy at best.

Also it the coins were made long after the fact and therefore based on impressions of what he looked like then they are just as much evidence as this is:


[edit on 11/4/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by bruxfain

 

Wolf is fighting that war within himself...he wants so bad for the Lord to not exist so he can rest peacefully in his unbelief ...we all know this will not happen ....you will find no peace in that Wolf .... ..I pray that the Lord shows himself to you Wolf ..

I respect you SN, but this is insulting. You have no idea what's going on in me right now. There is no war inside me over faith. There is bananas with jam on toast in me though.

This thread is about the historic evidence for Caesar, not views on faiths.

Originally posted by Supercertari
Why is this called "The Christian Myth"?

A myth is something, while widely believed, is false. The myth that there is more evidence for Jesus than Caesar is believed by many christians. Most of the christians I know personally believe it and quite a few on ATS do to.

It's a myth by the very definition of myth.

I don't often agree with Jakyll..but they have a point ..these coins are indeed questionable.

There is no hard description of what Jesus the Christ for remission of sins looked like.

There are very few writings of persons with a clear description...outside of He was hard to look upon. No description of his hair colour, length of hair...was he crippled...well dressed..et al. None of this.
This is not a description of a good looking fellow...or pleasing to the eye.

THe Christians had no nation in the physical sense...why would they even be interested in a mint for making coins? This was not their purpose.

I put no stock in pictures or paintings etc etc of what Jesus the Christ for remission of sins looked like. They are all questionable. Whenever I see a halo around a person in a picture..I become immediately dubious..and questioning about the sources. Same thing with angels having wings...baby angels with wings....and halos.

By the way Jekyll...when you stated your priest told you not to read the bible so much ...that is a clear warning sign....of who and what this priest is...or is not. They are not Christian. You keep asking questions and reading. No preacher or priest tells me such. I know how to weed them out quite quickly. Any preacher or priest who tells me such ..I know they are not of God....but of the counterfeiter and the demigods. They will find out very quickly how Salty I can get.

We are to be in Faith believing ..not in pictures or statues....etc..man made things.

History is a wonderful and fascinating topic. Also from time to time the dicipline of Archeology and others.. unearths fascinating and telling artifacts/knowledges..to shed a clearer picture of the history about which we know or have tell tale traces. I have no problems with this.

However...by the pictures of the coins..and the knowledges I know about the traditions of men..I am in agreement with Jakyll...the pedigree of the coins and what they mean is questionable.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Have yall seen this site ?
www.bl.uk...

I am not real sure how significant they are ...but I have been listening to the Audio of each book while turning the pages of the actual books...the Ethiopian book is very interesting ...
Have a look please ....
It is pretty cool when you can thumb through the actual books from a museum from home ...

Obviously Christians branched off to many different countries ...for someone who did not exist there was sure a lot of writings about him from other countries ...where they would not have been killed at the mere mention of his name ....

Wolf for someone you claim did not exist ..why are you still going on and on about him then ?

We all know Caesar existed ....he was the RULER of course there was endless stuff written about him and endless coins with his face on them ...the rulers of the days of Christ all thought that they were gods (god men) so why on earth would you expect to find anything about a man who claimed to be the son of God ..who put all those god men to shame ....
I dont even expect for anything to show up even in our time that would prove Christ because the god men of our day would not want anyone to know he was real either would they ? Especially not with all the Scientific and technological times we are living in ..where they want us all to believe in god men again instead of GOD and Christ (just like it was then ..what has been before will be again) .


There I spelled Caesar correct for ya Kapyong lol I fixed some other spelling errors too ok ..you happy now ...




[edit on 4-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

Simplynoone

You missed my point.

And it was only the Jewish council who were after him and Rome only got involved when this council complained to them during the last weeks of his life.
And Jesus too didn't want people to talk of him.The NT is littered with verses where Jesus performs a miracle and he tells the people there not to reveal him or what he had done.

Obviously Christians branched off to many different countrys ...for someone who did not exist there was sure alot of writings about him from other countrys ...where they would not have been killed at the mere mention of his name ....

There are Greek 'legends' and stories that stretch from the Middle East to Britain,are the gods and heroes of these 'legends' real? By your logic the answer is yes.





orangetom1999

I don't often agree with Jakyll

Very true.

By the way Jekyll...when you stated your priest told you not to read the bible so much ...that is a clear warning sign....of who and what this priest is...or is not. They are not Christian. You keep asking questions and reading. No preacher or priest tells me such. I know how to weed them out quite quickly. Any preacher or priest who tells me such ..I know they are not of God....but of the counterfeiter and the demigods. They will find out very quickly how Salty I can get.

I don't think anything could stop me asking questions.lol.I am on a quest for knowledge,and asking questions can sometimes be the best way to gain it.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Wolf for someone you claim did not exist ..why are you still going on and on about him then ?

Firstly, I did not claim he did not exist, there is not enough evidence to say ether way, non-existence of evidence is not evidence of non existence, but there is still no real or significant evidence for him either.

Secondly, I believe that He may have existed as a non-divine preacher heading a cult that eventually turned into a religion.

Lastly, This thread was never about Jesus, it was about a myth about Caesar. Stick to the subject matter.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
A myth is something, while widely believed, is false. The myth that there is more evidence for Jesus than Caesar is believed by many christians. Most of the christians I know personally believe it and quite a few on ATS do to.

My clear emphasis was on the use of "Christian", I am well aware of the definition of myth. What you propose in your OP is not a "Christian" myth its a myth held by some Christians - it is neither dogma nor widely held. If most of the Christians you know believe this you need to meet more Christians. So, its a pleasure to meet you As a life long Christian I have never actually heard anyone propose this theory, though I don;t doubt you that you have heard some proclaim it as a truth. It is less than a myth, it is a nonsense.

reply to post by Supercertari


But it's a myth held only by christians, spread and used by christians only. That seems pretty christian to me.
This isn't a stab at Christianity, just some specific feeble minded christians.

What would you have the title read? I might have it changed if I agree.

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Good Wolf]

I am not sure where this misunderstanding came from, perhaps from christians attempts to deny any relation between Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ. Fortunately I already have a thread about this here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Supercertari
As for the Carpenter from Nazareth, sure theres lots of evidence about Him,

So apologists keep claiming.

But they never actually produce any evidence.
Just more preaching.


K.

Julius Caesar is one of the most famous people in history.

Why do so many people get his name WRONG ?!
There are people here who've made 3 spelling errors in a 6 letter name !

Getting Caesar's name wrong makes you look very un-educated.
Get it right please.


K.

Gday,

Originally posted by Supercertari
My clear emphasis was on the use of "Christian", I am well aware of the definition of myth. What you propose in your OP is not a "Christian" myth its a myth held by some Christians - it is neither dogma nor widely held. If most of the Christians you know believe this you need to meet more Christians. So, its a pleasure to meet you

As a life long Christian I have never actually heard anyone propose this theory, though I don;t doubt you that you have heard some proclaim it as a truth. It is less than a myth, it is a nonsense.

Wrong.

This myth is widely spread among Christian apologists.
I've heard it dozens of times, so have many others.
You will find it cited on many fora.
Here are some examples :

answers.yahoo.com...

richarddawkins.net...

rantsnraves.org...

www.geocities.com...

wiki.answers.com...

www.rayfowler.org...

1/2 dozen examples in a minute or two.


(That YOU haven't heard it proves nothing much - apart from the fact that you haven't heard it.)


K.


[edit on 4-11-2008 by Kapyong]

reply to post by Kapyong


I can't get on to the Richard Dawkins link. You need to be registered to the forums to view it.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

Originally posted by Good Wolf
He was on coins just like modern monarchs (started the trend).

Not really, no.

And this isn't a 1-line post either

.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by babloyi]

Sorry if I've made a mistake, out of interest can you show us who did?

reply to post by Kapyong


Oh no the spelling police ..lol .....sorry about my spelling ..I am just about as uneducated as they come...I was really good at spelling but Caesar is not an easy one to spell now is it >?


OK I went back and fixed it ..

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Good Wolf

What would you have the title read? I might have it changed if I agree.

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Good Wolf]

"The Myth: Julius Caesar"

or

"The Myth: More Evidence for Jesus Than Julius Caesar"