School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners

Originally posted by PoliticalRevolutionUND


We could sit here all day and exchange links to "facts" if you want.

And yes, I do have gay friends and amazingly there are gays out there who do not agree with you. Wow!

And, no. No church. Sorry to disappoint you.

Yeah, somehow I knew you would not be able to answer my question.

Now on to your next challenge to ignore.

Produce these gay friends that claim they are only gay by choice.

Hell, produce any gay person, any ONE gay person that claims they are that way by choice.

Originally posted by Iblis Smiley

Originally posted by PoliticalRevolutionUND


We could sit here all day and exchange links to "facts" if you want.

And yes, I do have gay friends and amazingly there are gays out there who do not agree with you. Wow!

And, no. No church. Sorry to disappoint you.

Yeah, somehow I knew you would not be able to answer my question.

Now on to your next challenge to ignore.

Produce these gay friends that claim they are only gay by choice.

Hell, produce any gay person, any ONE gay person that claims they are that way by choice.

I'm quite happy this way thank you.
I wouldn't change me, but that doesn't mean I chose my sexuality any more than you did.

And for the people saying that schools don't have the right to teach morality and respect for others... If the parents did this themselves, then there wouldn't be a reason to do this in schools. But the majority of parents don't do this it seems.

If I had a child I would teach them how to treat others myself, but failing that I know my ideas would be supported by their school and they would develop into a person able to interact with others who have been taught the same high ideals.

Originally posted by detachedindividual


I'm quite happy this way thank you.
I wouldn't change me, but that doesn't mean I chose my sexuality any more than you did.

You seem to miss my point. I am not saying sexuality is a choice, I am challenging that claim.

Jenna,

The rairity of persons born without hands is the same for those born with the diagnosis of XXY chromosome. A person born without feet would of course have to use their hands upon which to walk.

The married couple who for what ever reason cannot concieve, will have to rely on the product (child) of someone else's natural use of primary sexual organs. Adopt, surrogate, etc.

The folly of What did one gay sperm say to the other gay sperm? How are you supposed to find an egg in all this s#*+? Pretty much says it all. Sperm naturally look for an unfertilized egg.

Sexual preference (GTBLH) is a choice. Color of skin, height, and male/female gender are not choices. XXY chromosomes is not a choice it is a rare medical syndrome, disorder, diagnosible disease.

reply to post by Iblis Smiley



Iblis Smiley,
I am heterosexual, and have at times thought about homosexual acts.
So I choose to not act on them. I, when in a relationship with a woman, have had thoughts about other women and have had opportunities to act on those thoughts. I chose to not act, and thus remained monogamous. Your plantive whinings about it being outside the realm of choice smells like victimstance. You blame the condition of GTBLH on being born that way, so as to avoid accountability, and shift the responsibility of your actions, which result from your choices, onto God, or genetics, or some other process.

reply to post by fmcanarney


I think you may have missed my point. My point is that just because some people don't use their girl and boy parts the way you do does not make your way the only way. Mouths are naturally used for eating, drinking and talking, but many people also use them for kissing. So by following your argument kissing is wrong since that is not what a mouth is naturally for.

You are not personally being harmed in any way, shape or form by anyone who is GLBT falling in love with someone else who is also GLBT. It doesn't affect you, so it confuses me why you or anyone else who is not GLBT cares... If two guys fall in love, how does that affect you? If two girls fall in love, how does that affect you? In short, it doesn't affect you any more than it affects me, which would be not at all.

reply to post by Jezus

Both posts were offensive. Your opponent apologized and edited his posts.

I apologize if I really hurt anyone's feelings

As you also apologized. Accepted.

I really don't see what the problem is with 'hateful language'. As has been mentioned several times, words cannot hurt you if you do not allow them to. The meaning is what hurts, and each person assigns meaning to the words they hear themselves.

Now if you want to talk discrimination or violence, that is a serious problem. But it does not only affect gays, and it is already illegal. there is also the possibility that actions such as we are discussing here lead to increased violence toward the very group that is singled out to be 'helped'.

I will also debate your suggestion that (and I paraphrase, forgive me if I misunderstood your intent) 'since it feels good, it must be OK'. I'm sure pedophiles get some sort of pleasure out of their activities, as do rapists, and even serial killers. None of these things are 'OK', yet all of them give the perpetrator some sort of pleasurable experience.

Thank you again for rising to the level of maturity I expect from an ATS poster.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TERAKO68
reply to post by PoliticalRevolutionUND

 

As much as I would like to believe you have gay friends, I find it highly suspect since you say gay people are filthy, wrong and have an agenda to recruit the young children to become gay.

Please think about this... Perhaps it's not the gay agenda you need to worry about but rather the agenda that got you to spout off such hate, intolerance and loathing for a fellow human being.

Regards,

James


[edit on 3-11-2008 by TERAKO68]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by TERAKO68]

See, this is what sparks the whole "hate" speech crap. Look, you are totally misunderstanding my point. I am NOT calling gay people filthy. I am calling TEACHING it in public schools filthy. There is a difference. And I don't care if you don't think I have gay friends or not. Seriously, you are what you are and I don't have a issue with that. But teaching and promoting it in the public school system....thats what I have a issue with.

Originally posted by Iblis Smiley

Yeah, somehow I knew you would not be able to answer my question.

Now on to your next challenge to ignore.

Produce these gay friends that claim they are only gay by choice.

Hell, produce any gay person, any ONE gay person that claims they are that way by choice.

And how exactly would I "produce" my friends seeing as this IS the internet?

Point is, not ALL gays are going to agree with you. Get over it.

It is just wrong, totally and utterly wrong, to ram a certain viewpoint down their throat.

I think a simple "no bullying" as schools have taught since, well, as long as Ive known schools to teach would suffice, how about that

Originally posted by Jenna
I think you may have missed my point. My point is that just because some people don't use their girl and boy parts the way you do does not make your way the only way. Mouths are naturally used for eating, drinking and talking, but many people also use them for kissing. So by following your argument kissing is wrong since that is not what a mouth is naturally for.

Im sorry, I don't mind what people do to each other as adults, but to make some sort of equivalence between the anus and the mouth is just insane

Originally posted by TheRedneckI really don't see what the problem is with 'hateful language'. As has been mentioned several times, words cannot hurt you if you do not allow them to. The meaning is what hurts, and each person assigns meaning to the words they hear themselves.

I just don't understand how you don't see a problem with "hateful language" but even mentioning the fact that a penis fits into several different orifices (basic biology and fact) is offensive.

One makes people feel bad because of who they are.

One makes people feel bad because other people say the words are bad...

Originally posted by TheRedneckI will also debate your suggestion that (and I paraphrase, forgive me if I misunderstood your intent) 'since it feels good, it must be OK'. I'm sure pedophiles get some sort of pleasure out of their activities, as do rapists, and even serial killers. None of these things are 'OK', yet all of them give the perpetrator some sort of pleasurable experience.

This is probably one of the most ridiculous, absurd, and offensive arguments are person can make on this topic.

Natural homosexuality involves two (or more ) WILLING individuals. Those things you listed involve a victim or a child. Even comparing them is completely absurd.

'since it feels good, it must be OK' + It doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't involve any unwilling participants.

Yah...it must be ok.

And this is really the point, as a whole we are moving forward. We are becoming more accepting of people's differences.

reply to post by Jezus


He was debating your quote of ('since it feels good, it must be OK'), which is obviously incorrect due to the examples he gave. Alot of bad things feel good, so the logic there is missing. Thats what he was trying to convey to you, but it completely flew over your head.

He was also speaking of the intent of a person using a word. Its about intentions of the person who uses it, that makes it hateful. The Redneck is not pro-hate, and you are twisting things to make it sound like he is, and anyone who reads his previous posts, can see this fact very clearly.

And on the topic of offensive posts, the point is there has been 13 pages of meaningful discussion, without having to explain the basics of sex on a thread, with potenial child readers. Its just uncalled for, you can convey your point, without having to describe what fits into where.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by schism85]

reply to post by Jezus


The point is that kids come on this forum as previously stated. I was wrong to post that and did the right thing by deleting it myself. Lets stay on the topic with kids in mind shall we?

if it matters, i know many people who are gay by choice. All of them female, as it seems easier to digest that way i guess.

Why did they make that choice? Men who repeatedly treated them horribly (and, in one case, because of an abusive father).

Originally posted by blueorder
Im sorry, I don't mind what people do to each other as adults, but to make some sort of equivalence between the anus and the mouth is just insane

As is thinking that what other people do with their boy and girl parts in private has any effect on anyone else. Know what else is just insane? People thinking that just because they use their parts a certain way means that every one else has to use them the same way.

As I said to the other poster, how does it affect you if two people of the same sex fall in love? Simply put, it doesn't. So I don't get why everyone gets all worked up over something that does not affect them in any way, shape or form. They aren't hurting you so what do you care what they use their parts for?

Originally posted by fmcanarney
The GLBTH is attempting to gain a protected liberty interest in spotlighting the name calling to them to be defined as HATE crime.

The use of sexual organs for pleasure will create excessive lust.

The proper use will usually result in a pregnancy.
However, God made sexual intercourse, (only between a man and woman) pleasurable so that married couples would like to make children. And especially to overcome the pain and anguish of carrying a child for nine months.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by fmcanarney]

You missed one VERY IMPORTANT point. Sexual intercourse for purpose other than procreation is the same as spilling your seed on the ground. If you really want to get God invoulved then you have to acknowledge that any sex between a man and a woman, married or not is the sin of masturbation if either partner is not fertal or uses birth control.
My point is in this thread is they should not single out a specific group but have the kids sign a card that says that, 'I will not call anybody a hurtful name.' When you make the card for a specific group than every specific group will want their own special card and you end up haveing the kids spend the entire year filling out stupid cards for every special interst group.

reply to post by TEAMSTER


The point you missed is that society still believes it is OK or acceptable to ridicule, demean, threaten and abuse homosexuals and that societies approval of this behaviour begins at an early age ...unfortunately.

An example not so many years ago the "N" word, segregation and discrimination was accepted as moral and correct. It was OK. Thanks to people with the courage to stand up to HATE and ignorance and draw a line and say NO this is NOT acceptable we will not accept this behavior as "normal". It is NOT fair. It is NOT RIGHT... these people said NO to HATE!

I don't think it is necessary to get into the mechanics of sexuality with small children. I do think that the word "sexuality" or "sexual preference" would be enough language.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
reply to post by TEAMSTER

 

The point you missed is that society still believes it is OK or acceptable to ridicule, demean, threaten and abuse homosexuals and that societies approval of this behaviour begins at an early age ...unfortunately.

I think you are missing something here. The western society that I live in (America), does not condone or "approve" of hate crimes, and infact, they are illegal. What society do you live in, where this is acceptable behavior?



[edit on 4-11-2008 by schism85]

Originally posted by schism85

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
reply to post by TEAMSTER

 

The point you missed is that society still believes it is OK or acceptable to ridicule, demean, threaten and abuse homosexuals and that societies approval of this behaviour begins at an early age ...unfortunately.

I think you are missing something here. The western society that I live in (America), does not condone or "approve" of hate crimes, and infact, they are illegal. What society do you live in, where this is acceptable behavior?



[edit on 4-11-2008 by schism85]

Well maybe you aren't this ignorant but unfortunately there are still some people who (for whatever personal reason) think that their is something wrong with homosexual people.

The idea that a person is in a morally negative state by intrinsic characteristics can insight hate and violence.

Children should be able to understand that expressing hate for people's differences is a wrong thing.

----

Originally posted by PoliticalRevolutionUND
reply to post by Jezus

 

The point is that kids come on this forum as previously stated. I was wrong to post that and did the right thing by deleting it myself. Lets stay on the topic with kids in mind shall we?

I agree we should keep kids in mind when discussing this topic. But shielding them from natural biology is not as important as shielding them from the hateful ignorance that your previous post conveyed.

Also, it is meaningful to this argument that the sexual mechanics of the penis and the anus have nothing to do with the state of homosexuality.




[edit on 4-11-2008 by Jezus]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Jezus]