The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Lucky Germany :

'Germany approves subsidized sale of military submarine to Israel'

A senior German official said Wednesday that the government has approved the subsidized sale of another Dolphin-type military submarine to Israel.

The official said Germany has set aside €135 million ($180 million) in next year's budget to pay for about a third of its cost.

Seriously when will this ridiculousness end? Will Germans pay for the mistake of their grand-grand fathers forever or what? Not to mention that money is used for WEAPONS... now if it were to fund education in Israel, why not... but funding weapons? Disgusting.

Between Germany and the US giving billions of dollars to Israel to buy weapons, they still are trying to say that Israel isn't a military advanced post in the middle-east... PLEASE.

edit on 30-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

Israelis are now a made race of robots who execute Nazi plan automatically.
I'm not surprised at all Germany is "subsidizing" them.
After WWII, most educated Nazi cadres were taken to USA, and some to USSR. I don't know about GB...
British opposed creation of Israel. They massacred Jews on that Turkish ship who were trying to get to Israel, after war.
But this is clearly a Nazi plan supported by America and Germany today.


Ahem... Talk about wolf...

German intelligence files on ex-Nazis shredded

www.bbc.co.uk...

Investigators have found that in 2007 the German Intelligence Service (BND) destroyed files of 250 BND employees who had been in the Nazi SS or Gestapo.

From what little i can gather this is just another case of kicking the can forward.

So how long can this facade keep up before the whole system crashes? And will the Elites ever let it happen?

They must be hoping for a Christmas miracle to save the financial institutions world wide. Isnt it a fact that there just are not enough resources world wide to supplement the fiat currency floating around? What a strange system...

What a horrible arguement I had today. Someone was happy, just joyous at what took place. This person is looking at their here and now. He said, " I am doing fine right now so all is fine. We have to do all this so we can land softly." This person had no consideration for the future & is ok with all the bailouts, TARPS etc.... his view is keep the presses printing so we don't crash because that would hurt. How can someone think we are going to softly crash??? WTH is that?? I call it lala land. Is anyone else out there running into people who just don't get it?

Markets to the moon until the next hangover!
The hopium has filled the air once more!
I'm gona be crapping my pants when this thing comes down.
Today confirmed that there is no plan too insane that these guys won't implement.

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


That is the point, you just see it but do not want to accept it, Actually that is all is left for the globalist in charge of the economies last step, but sadly one that can be perpetuated as long as they are the ones in charge and keeping the books

Nations can not longer be productive to the point of even out their financial comitments to each other, hell they can not even meet their due days on interest payments, so to avoid a global collapse, they are bailing out each other, no money required just the promise of more time to pay that debt.

The so call elites trying to control the nations economies are now in a vicious cycle of debt and they are unable to get off of it and neither find a way to fix it, because the nations expenditures can not be avoided without causing total collapse of their fictitious economies.

So what else is there to do? keep bailing themselves out to avoid a total collapse, but at the same time they will keep increasing the same debt that they want to avoid, now is nothing but a vicious cycle and the end is not going to be very pretty.

Just give them time, and they will all hang by their own greed and corruption.

When you have all the major lenders (the Fed, IMF and Central banks) together trying to fix each others mess with more debt is not going to end very pretty, actually I see is as an act of desperation.

You can not create wealth when is nothing but debt left over.

China PMI Falls to 49, Lowest Level in Nearly 3 Years

China's official purchasing managers' index (PMI) fell to 49 in November, the lowest since February 2009 and below the 50.4 level in October, the China Federation of Logistics and Purchasing (CFLP) said on Thursday.

Analysts had expected the official PMI to be at 50, the level that demarcates economic expansion from contraction.

reply to post by surrealist


Poor China, is been pushed into the global debt and falling just like the rest of them, very soon even China will be indebted up to their noses,(if they are not already) to keep their economy going.

Sad.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
From what little i can gather this is just another case of kicking the can forward.

So how long can this facade keep up before the whole system crashes? And will the Elites ever let it happen?

They must be hoping for a Christmas miracle to save the financial institutions world wide. Isnt it a fact that there just are not enough resources world wide to supplement the fiat currency floating around? What a strange system...

If you walk outside in the morning and you notice one of the tires is low, one would figure it is time to put in a bit more air and then determine what is causing the air to leave said tire. Failure to address the root cause . . . patch the leak . . . will leave you with the same friggin' repeating problem except the leak gradually gets worse until your tire no longer holds air.

So, while throwing money into the system helps put a little air in the tires, what is the root cause of this problem and what the hell is anyone doing to fix it and prevent recurrence?

Seriously . . . gimme a root cause and a solution . . . Beuller . . . . . . BEULLLLER . . . . . sigh . . .

Originally posted by GoalPoster

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
From what little i can gather this is just another case of kicking the can forward.

So how long can this facade keep up before the whole system crashes? And will the Elites ever let it happen?

They must be hoping for a Christmas miracle to save the financial institutions world wide. Isnt it a fact that there just are not enough resources world wide to supplement the fiat currency floating around? What a strange system...

If you walk outside in the morning and you notice one of the tires is low, one would figure it is time to put in a bit more air and then determine what is causing the air to leave said tire. Failure to address the root cause . . . patch the leak . . . will leave you with the same friggin' repeating problem except the leak gradually gets worse until your tire no longer holds air.

So, while throwing money into the system helps put a little air in the tires, what is the root cause of this problem and what the hell is anyone doing to fix it and prevent recurrence?

Seriously . . . gimme a root cause and a solution . . . Beuller . . . . . . BEULLLLER . . . . . sigh . . .

the answer is anarchy. pure in its form and un perverted.

anarchy cant be boxed into pigeon holes and cant be controlled. order = entropy anarchy = variety

We are too far deep into this game to fix the system. it has to crash, its crusted with scabs of greed and corruption infected with self indulgent pathogens and empathy. I for one will be cheering on the end of this sick twisted system.

Originally posted by GoalPoster

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
From what little i can gather this is just another case of kicking the can forward.

So how long can this facade keep up before the whole system crashes? And will the Elites ever let it happen?

They must be hoping for a Christmas miracle to save the financial institutions world wide. Isnt it a fact that there just are not enough resources world wide to supplement the fiat currency floating around? What a strange system...

If you walk outside in the morning and you notice one of the tires is low, one would figure it is time to put in a bit more air and then determine what is causing the air to leave said tire. Failure to address the root cause . . . patch the leak . . . will leave you with the same friggin' repeating problem except the leak gradually gets worse until your tire no longer holds air.

So, while throwing money into the system helps put a little air in the tires, what is the root cause of this problem and what the hell is anyone doing to fix it and prevent recurrence?

Seriously . . . gimme a root cause and a solution . . . Beuller . . . . . . BEULLLLER . . . . . sigh . . .

The root cause is the entire federal reserve money from nothing debt based system. What we call money is literally notes signifying debt. There is no money we're are trading debt notes for goods and services. This does not make sense to most people because they can go buy things with federal reserve notes (FRN's) however what they don't understand is these notes truly do represent the debt of the USA and all its land, property, labor, and people. Basically all of our property labor and the people themselves are mortgaged to create these notes and also book entry electronic money for bank loans etc. And the FRN's are just the petty cash of the system. Bank loans are what makes the system tick because that money does not exist before you sign the promissory note to create a loan. It is created on the spot and you are the surety for that money. Then using fractional reserve they create nine times the mount of the loan out of thin air. That is how the majority of our so called money is created. And in order to keep the system afloat they have to continue to create more and more fake money via these loans that is why all the economist say that for the economy to be healthy it has to keep expanding. But its not really expanding the fake money supply is expanding creating more debt and inflation that is why the national debt can never be paid back because the whole system is based on creating perpetual debt that is its life blood..

The downside to this is it is unsustainable this type of fiat system has never lasted more the about 40 years before it mathematically implodes. Greece and Iceland have already reached those ends and we and the rest of Europe and the whole world are all approaching that end. The system will crash it is a mathematical certainty there is no way around it. We are at the end of the cycle. That's the bad news the good news is people will still trade and will gravitate to sound money value for value and not let government have control of the monetary system again when it does crash but it will be painful and very hard times for a while. if your not prepared then do so now pull any money out of the market and spend it on preparing to survive the crash.Once you get prepared if you can afford it get some physical silver and gold. All the so called money is returning from whence it came; nothing!

reply to post by hawkiye


Exactly, Greece and Italy and many other countries that have adopted the Euro will implode, you are right on the penny, but look at the countries that still keep their own currency, the same countries that wants to dominated the rest of the nations with loans and debt, why has the US no implode yet? or the UK? or Germany?, why China will never give away their currency? because they can print their own money and manipulate it against other nations that also hold their currency and are the ones under the global banking system, US has an added advantage, we own oil.

See that? and the reason why US allows UK to drill our oil, so they can also have oil backing.

So deceptive, you are so right is not funny, is no liquidity is not wealth, money is just that paper with the value that the corrupted bankers give to it thanks to the government the treasury and the Fed.

As long as is some printing presses around, the debt will only be pushed, because that is what is left debt and more debt.

The biggest danger to the EU power is if the nations under their dictatorship of debt will start braking out and going back to their own currency.

A currency that they can manipulate to finish kill the Euro.

Life is the root cause.

There is a fresh thread here on ATS www.abovetopsecret.com...

Researchers make the case that modern life sprang from early mega-organism

Mega Organism! Global Organism!

Well, I think bio-geological history repeats too We are now in the phase of a Late Mega-Organism

Everything is normal, people. It couldn't be better than this. The evil (stupid) ones knew this from the beginning. And We the Smart ones have a difficulty to understand that Nature is not good, idyllic and in perfect harmony, fair and honest. It is not.

And our civilization too, resembles a colony of bacteriophage cannibals. That's why people are so happy and revel in orgies of consumerism. Happy little opportunist omnivores eating each other and reproducing (outsourcing)

Well well well, the bank that nearly failed is probably CREDIT AGRICOLE... and it was downgraded two days ago..

Dollar Libor Market Hints 66x Leveraged Credit Agricole Was Bank X

Following yesterday's shove-liquidity-down-your-throat-of-last-resort action by the Fed et al. 3M USD Libor fell, admittedly marginally, for the first time since July 25th. The 0.1bps compression was practically insignificant as only 4 of the 18 member banks actually reduced their bids - Citi, Rabobank, RBC, and UBS but we are sure headlines will crow of the impact the coordinated central bank action has had already. What is most concerning when we look at the individual Libors of each member is one bank stands out over the last few weeks. Given that we know the dollar funding market is highly stressed (USD-cross currency basis swaps), this appears to be the only efficient way to understand which bank might be under the most stress. Given Credit Agricole's notably weak Tangible Common Equity Ratio and the fact that its Libor was such an outlier recently, it is hard not to suspect the global stick-save was instigated because this $1.59tn asset-heavy bank was on the verge of failure.

Now won't be long before traders pick up on that and destroys what's left of Credit Agricole.

It doesn't bode well for Europe if banks are already levereged to the hilt, and a whack more mortgages to go glug glug beneath the waterline based on the expectation that property values will continue to drop and banks get stingier on lending despite low interest rates brought about by the influx of cash as we saw yesterday.

‘The problem is that these cuts are not being passed on the form of cheaper variable and capped rate loans for new customers as banks maintain or increase their margins in readiness for impending new Basle III capital base ratios and to pay for the increased costs of wholesale borrowing,’

Source

What happens next will be interesting.

It used to be that when a country was in debt and had no more resources, it would go to war and TAKE someone elses resources. What happens when there are no more resources to take and no one to serve because there is no money to pay them? A mass population reduction would free up resources. Not a very plesant notion but just had to say it.

We finally have a date (according to Morgan Stanley) for this whole charade to end... December 9.

Fiscal Federalism Or Bust! Morgan Stanley Sees Dec 9th As Real European D-Day

We have often discussed the temporary and tenuous nature of any and all government-suggested solutions so far to the European crisis on the basis that the 'model' is broken. Following the decision to go for PSI, and the possibility of a sovereign leaving the Euro-zone (Greek referendum ultimatum), money is no longer fungible in and across European banks (deposits) and sovereigns as it seeks the stability of a narrower and narrower core. Arnaud Mares, of Morgan Stanley, who wrote the initial and definitive Greek story long before most others, brings up this very point; questioning the fungibility of Greek Euro deposits with French Euro deposits, for example, and interpreting the situation as a 'run on banks and governments'. His view that without a clear path to a fiscal lender of last resort - or a true fiscal federalism across a united Europe - which ensures solvent governments will never go illiquid, then the December 9th decisions mark a bifurcation point of critical import.

If governments choose to engage on the route to fiscal federalism, we believe that this does not mark the end of the crisis. It could, however, mark the beginning of the end of the crisis, as it would be a decisive first step towards stabilisation and a European federation. The alternative could well be the beginning of the end for the European confederation.

FINALLY a date...

reply to post by Vitchilo


so this worldwide injection of money yesterday is only going to last 10 day? Am i correct on this or am i misunderstanding?

WOW

Originally posted by Vitchilo
We finally have a date (according to Morgan Stanley) for this whole charade to end... December 9.

Fiscal Federalism Or Bust! Morgan Stanley Sees Dec 9th As Real European D-Day

We have often discussed the temporary and tenuous nature of any and all government-suggested solutions so far to the European crisis on the basis that the 'model' is broken. Following the decision to go for PSI, and the possibility of a sovereign leaving the Euro-zone (Greek referendum ultimatum), money is no longer fungible in and across European banks (deposits) and sovereigns as it seeks the stability of a narrower and narrower core. Arnaud Mares, of Morgan Stanley, who wrote the initial and definitive Greek story long before most others, brings up this very point; questioning the fungibility of Greek Euro deposits with French Euro deposits, for example, and interpreting the situation as a 'run on banks and governments'. His view that without a clear path to a fiscal lender of last resort - or a true fiscal federalism across a united Europe - which ensures solvent governments will never go illiquid, then the December 9th decisions mark a bifurcation point of critical import.

If governments choose to engage on the route to fiscal federalism, we believe that this does not mark the end of the crisis. It could, however, mark the beginning of the end of the crisis, as it would be a decisive first step towards stabilisation and a European federation. The alternative could well be the beginning of the end for the European confederation.

FINALLY a date...

I get the date part, but what the hell is a bifurcation point of critical import and money is no longer fungible . . .

If'n I ever I ever get fungible bifurcation, I"m hoping there's shots for it and next time I promise to wear a raincoat!

Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

so this worldwide injection of money yesterday is only going to last 10 day? Am i correct on this or am i misunderstanding?

WOW

No words on how long it's gonna last... that could be earlier. But the december 9 date is about a political decision... not a funding issue.

I get the date part, but what the hell is a bifurcation point of critical import and money is no longer fungible . . .

Good point, it's weird....

I think...

``bifurcation`` means a change of direction...
``of critical import`` I think it misses a few things... ``of critical importance it should read instead...
``money is no longer fungible in and across European banks`` means that... money doesn't solve anything anymore...

Debt for fiscal year starting October 1 2011 till November 30 2011 : 320.16 billion or 5.248 billion/day ($16.93/day/citizen) or ($1.915 trillion deficit)
Debt for calendar year 2011 till November 30 : 1.112 trillion or 3.33 billion/day ($10.74/day/citizen) ($1.215 trillion deficit)
Current debt as of November 30 : 15.110 trillion
Current debt ceiling : 14.694 trillion (first phase) 15.194 trillion (second phase) 16.694 trillion (final phase)

At the current average rate of 4.29 billion in new debt/day (or about $13.84 in new debt per day for every citizen in America...and that is just federal) it will take about 19 days before reaching the second phase of the debt ceiling hike, so around December 19, 2011 and final phase on December 4, 2012. (which might be earlier than that)

US GDP : 15.18 trillion Q3 2011
US debt : 15.11 trillion

Total debt to GDP ratio : 99.54%

And since the US will sell $160 billion in bonds in the next 2 weeks, that should put the US at over 100% debt/GDP... and it's all downhill from there.

And about Black Friday...

More shoppers are whipping out credit cards

On Black Friday, payments made with credit cards rose 7.4% from a year earlier, vs. an increase of 3.4% for payments with signature debit cards, according to First Data, a payments processing firm. An analysis by Javelin Strategy & Research forecasts that credit card payments for online purchases will increase 63% from 2011 to 2016, vs. 2% for debit cards.

During the recession, the use of credit cards declined as cost-conscious consumers switched to debit cards and cash for their purchases. Now, though, the pendulum is swinging back, analysts say.

Brilliant.