The Evidence For Jesus' Existence is Overwhelming

I want to know if any of you have ever for one second ever thought that if your wrong ....you will have alot to answer for ?

Do not tell me that you have not been wrong about alot of things that you thought was true ?Or untrue ..
And alot of things remain unsolved .

Whats up with all the egos ?
Surely yall do not really believe that your that much of a genius that you have everything figured out ...

You know if some of you went on a spiritual quest for the Lord Jesus you may find him the same way you found your buddah .You need to REALLY WANT TO FIND HIM just like you had to really want to find whatever you were searching for from your buddah ..
Didnt you read some sort of buddah bible in order to find him too ?
Then meditate for eons ..(hows that any different really than prayer?)

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I want to know if any of you have ever for one second ever thought that if your wrong ....you will have alot to answer for ?

No, you got it wrong. If we are wrong, then god will have a lot to answer for. Why scant evidence? Why burn souls in hell for all eternity for being born in sin? And 1000 other questions.

Whats up with all the egos ?
Surely yall do not really believe that your that much of a genius that you have everything figured out ...

Yes, indeed. You hit it right on the head. Whats up with all the christians' egos? They think that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. Do christians really think they are genius and have it all figured out?

Im not Buddhist Christian Muslim or any other label some body wants me to fit under, Im just me, born in 1973. Not 2000 years ago. I think its wise to study the world, so I do.

I like some Christians. I like some Muslims.. etc .. I do not like labelling.
Each culture has insights for us to learn if we choose.

Judging by the bible Jesus never told anybody not to read anything else did he. The bible didnt exist, Christianity never existed and he himself never liked established religion so why should we? why are there so many kinds of Christians yet just one (basic) bible? Because REASONABLY people cant agree on it all. And to be honest they are far too emotional mostly, aS some people prove with their hastey presumptions I dont like to say it is childish and some sceptical people are trying to be reasonable and friendly from their HEARTS, because they CARE and wana find the truth out with you, friend, not shoot you down take your stuff and leave you naked.

I believe in higher sources, beings, creators, sure I do. I bet there are beings like Jesus and I respect and agree with his teachings.. as the book puts it.. mostly. I just find it completely insane to believe the bible 100% and neither did god have much faith in men, even he said (apparently it was him) that if any man take away or add words to it then likewise would be done to them and their places in heaven. And boy its been translated how many times? obviously few people are going down. lol

Another thing is Jesus told you 'you can do greater works than I, if only you had faith'

Jesus wanted people to DO what he did, act like he did, THAT is the way.. he didnt ask to be worshipped and made a martyr of while we still sit on our butts moaning and debating his existence.


And how can god be omnipresent if he isnt in everything? If he is a singular physical being then he is somewhat limited.. as is proven by the bible.

Quantum physics is getting pretty close to telling us where ''God'' has been hiding tho, but plenty of Christians dont want to believe that God has any part of him inside us. WHY not I dont know... didnt he breathe life into us?

He is just a superhuman being from outer space (oh ok heaven) and we have no control of God we are just human he does what he wants and thats it we have free will to believe or not. If not we burn..

Some choice. I have a better option, read something more positive.

That is what certain people want us to think so that we dont DO what ''Jesus'' was telling us to DO.. just BE GOD. . let him out! WAKE UP is another word we keep hearing. Be compassionate to all people, animals and things.. not snare them into our belief system and close their mind to the true wonder of Gods creation and how it works - scientifically.. we need both science to move forward and religion to put on our breaks! but the 2 have been in dispute for a long time.. well that time is up and all is now joining together as one.. some of us will go kicking and screaming.. others smiling and laughing... but we will all get there.. at - our - own - pace.

I am the truth and the way, none may get to the father but by me.

We dont even KNOW he said that! we take someones hearsay word for it. But it still makes sense how Ive explained it.. doesnt mean worship me praise me all day and and put me on a cross He represented the way to live.. decently.

I agree theres truth in the bible but I think people have added a few words Jesus never said.. if he even existed, as Jehoshua or Yashua -- whatever his real name would have been and I think it matters a lot by the way.. just my opinion.

Love .. ME..

Edit to add my apologies if I go a bit off topic!

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Observer_X]

reply to post by Simplynoone


So it seems to me that you feel that if somebody does not accept jesus as a savior of sorts that they have a vendetta against him. It is so easy to say "this is what I believe" when you're in your own little self righteous world. You can try and make people think your way but when someone disagrees:
First, They are persecuting you and the bible says that will happen to christians.
Then, it doesn't matter cause they are going to hell to burn and you get to go to heaven and live happily ever after.
If your god loves everyone he has a really messed up way of showing it by letting tragedy befall his creations and then condemning them to unimaginable eternal pain after ONE shot at life.

Back on topic...

Is this thread about jesus being the savior or if he lived. Prove that he lived all you want because many people lived back then and many were crucified for believing in the "wrong" god. I feel that if we are to allow you to be free and let you believe what you want maybe you should allow us the same.

So let's continue debating and get the answers that man has yearned for for ages. I'm sure if we keep trying we will get there after a couple more posts. or after the OP gets enough ats points... whichever comes first.

(sp)


[edit on 13-9-2008 by HollowPointPeace]

reply to post by Simplynoone


No I study psychology. I dont think you are quite aware of what the ego is. It gets to all of us and needs to be aligned with the truth.. what you call God. Ego gets offended when its sense of ID is shaken, our sense of ID is got from our experiences and our belief systems. You in some of your comments show classic ego dents and trust me Im sorry I dont mean to offend you at all if I have, its up to you how you take it.


By the way.. I dont know anything Im stupid... I have read enough and thought enough and gone skitzoid enough and experimented with enough illegal substances to know about the mind and how it works, and emotions.

I couldnt be more reasonable if I tried.

No its the way that some of you go about trying to prove to us it isnt true .
The words you say and the tone in the way it was said .(Not all of you but some of you are really bitter in your posts)
And you use other books man written ones to try and prove to us that our man written book isnt true ...That just makes no sense ...

And your the ones always saying that if it doesnt make sense then it cant be true ..your not making sense to me ..
Maybe we all really are from other planets ..

reply to post by Simplynoone


Haha.. other planets.. lol.. I feel that.. maybe true there. I agree some people are really asinine and its not called for it makes them wronger than the one they are spewing it on.. if hes wrong at all. I believe we are all right and wrong at the same time. Quantum physics backed that up for me too.

Truth is quite subjective at times.. different for everybody..

I need to go bed its ..wow.. 7am

Wish you well buddy.. I will no doubt be back later.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
No its the way that some of you go about trying to prove to us it isnt true .
The words you say and the tone in the way it was said .(Not all of you but some of you are really bitter in your posts)
And you use other books man written ones to try and prove to us that our man written book isnt true ...That just makes no sense ...

And your the ones always saying that if it doesnt make sense then it cant be true ..your not making sense to me ..
Maybe we all really are from other planets ..

No no no. We are tired of christians pushing their beliefs on us. We are tired of christians trying to influence politics, trying to limit our lifestyles. We are tired of christians trying to stop any progress, scientific and otherwise. Um, and many many more.

So, of course some of us are bitter. Actually, more sad than bitter. We see that religious people are under control of their leaders and scriptures. Some of us, dare I say, really wish to see them free from fetters of their religions. To end wars and to unite the world and bring world peace.

I hope you see where I and some others come from. Basically, we are tired and sad.

By the way... I just write calmly there should be no tones in it most of the time.. usually we add those tones ourself as we read.. be careful of that.. but if I ever do add any offkey tones quite blatently.. I apologise beforehand.. as I said and you know... ego sneaks up and takes control.. we are not invincible just yet.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I want to know if any of you have ever for one second ever thought that if your wrong ....you will have alot to answer for ? Do not tell me that you have not been wrong about alot of things that you thought was true ?Or untrue ..
And alot of things remain unsolved .

I have thought this actually... I wonder if you have? Non-Christians are not the only ones that could suffer if their beliefs end up false. And yes, we have all been wrong before - that's the beauty of being god's children... even he thinks we are mistakes... what with trying to drown us all and start over. I wonder if he remembers that he is the one that gave us free will in the first place...??
As for me going on a spiritual quest to find your Jesus... been there, done that. Maybe (since I'm sure you'll speak to him before I do) you should convince him to go on a quest to find me I'm tired of doing all the work in this relationship.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
And you use other books man written ones to try and prove to us that our man written book isnt true ...That just makes no sense ...

As far as this thread goes... I'm not sure that anyone said the book wasn't true, though I'm sure many believe it's not. I know that (since the OP referenced the book) I, personally, used references in the book - alongside other books - to make my statements. And I was simply asking that the OP or those that share the same opinion reference something besides the bible. I don't think this is so much to ask, since, like I said earlier, if we only use the bible as fact then we need not have this debate.

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII

Originally posted by Observer_X
Thought I would share this with all of you this makes SO MUCH SENSE.

^ And this is why I have so much respect for Buddhism. It teaches and encourages you to question all things. Christianity does not do this...in fact, they teach, that if you do...you are ungodly.

EDIT: To the OP;

On the contrary my friend. The word "overwhelming" is an overstatement. In fact, some of the things you listed as "evidence" is hardly any evidence at all.
It's more like...potential evidence...if you have faith.

[edit on 12-9-2008 by sdrawkcabII]

Not sure what "christianity" you are referring to...I dunno maybe some "pastor" somewhere peed in your wheaties, but no where in the bible is there an instruction to shut up and not ask questions....in fact when you read the New Testament its easy to see how many questions were asked simply by the letters that Paul wrote to the various churches, and the apostles asked questions of Yeshuah all the time....you must have missed that part...

If someone told you that asking questions is ungodly - I would think you would have RUN not walked to the nearest source material...aka the Bible...to check this out....
so failing that I am always amazed at how folk talk BS for All believers and pass judgement on scripture they NEVER read...

And as for Buddhism...was a practicing Buddhist for over 20 years - once had a Korean monk tell me that women could not attain enlightenment because we were just not equipped - and the Lotus Sutra which says that women can attain enlightenment is still controversial among buddhist scholars...so all is not as it seems whenever the spirit of religious piety rears its ugly head whether buddhist , christian or muslim. jainism, bahai, shivaism - matters not....its all the same spirit and NOT of GOD...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I want to know if any of you have ever for one second ever thought that if your wrong ....you will have alot to answer for ?

Do you keep kosher? Do you maintain a strict kosher diet? Do you follow the Eightfold Path to enlightenment? Do you properly tithe the Mormon Church with a large percentage of your income? Do you bow down in the direction of Mecca at the required times of day? I mean, after all, if you're wrong, you might have a lot to answer for.

Oh, I see, you know you're right, so it's not a problem. And so I guess you just answered your own question.

Originally posted by noobfun
Originally posted by Bombeni

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account… You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws" - Lucian, Second Century Roman satarist.

and where does it say this is jesus?

I think "crucified sage" gives it away. Unless you can name any others, i would really be intersted. And the fact they are called Christians as in the people given the name of Jesus Christ. I think thats just a given and pretty obvious who its refering to.

it says they beleive the message of one who was crucified and believe in an afterlife it doesnt even say the original law giver WAS the crucified sage

but it does say "Christians...worship the crucified sage" and in the beginning of the passage it says the "crucified sage...introduced their novel rites"

the reason i cited this passage is to show Christians worshipped the "crucified saga" who was ofcourse Jesus as mentioned in the gospels all written in the first century as being crucified (plus mentioned by Paul of Tarsus in his letters c48-68 CE). with this passage of Lucian coming from the mid second century, when Constantine came in power 4th century. Im just dispelling the silly rumor that caught fire in the Da Vinci Code.

afterlife is a common belief practically every religeon has one

I've noticed...but thats not the point i brought the passage up, im not trying to say Jesus existed historically im just sayin, Christians worshipped Jesus before Constantine. PERIOD.

and crucifiction was a common way for deities to die apparently and most of them wernt greek in origin

Common?...hahah. SOURCE PLEASE! Don't even bother bringing up Kersey Graves 16 Crucified Saviors, the Secular (Atheist) Web Library says this about it:

"Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book."

www.infidels.org...

where does this say jesus who did these miracles and had 12 disciples called ... and said this this and then this

haha, im not even sure what ur trying to argue right now. I dont care or mind if it mentions Jesus miracles or not. or about the 12.

it doesnt say he is the son of god, was reserected nothing

So...? it does mentions Christians worshipping Jesus in the second century, before Constantine. almost 200 years before him.

Why would i need Lucian to say that when scholars agreee with the 7 undisputed Letters of Paul where he meets members of the 12 and even has some problems with them. Even critical scholars accept them.

ahh... that was fun.

[edit on 12/9/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by newagent89

 

I respect that you respectfully disagree

But honestly, the evidence for jesus is underwhelming, maybe (other than the bible) non-existent?

I respect your belief, and if it helps in your life, great!

I have argued with people on the subject of religion in a few threads on here and usually get the same old answers, so i have my beliefs/thoughts/opinions, you have yours.

Enjoy your life and do good things and you can't go wrong.

I don't need a book to tell me that.

Thanks for your reply.
I am glad that you are a rational thinker and conversationalist. I do think the Bible is a veritable source, and the NT was written pretty early because the prophesy of the destruction of the temple is not mentioned. If it had already occured, the writers would not have suppressed that fulfillment.

I also went to religious schools (Catholic) and have had my share of both malarkey and greatly stimulating information shoved my way. Obviously as a child, I had no trouble taking matters of faith on faith (As I grow older, I call into question the very nature of childlike ignorance as being a bad thing at its core. I feel that through revelation, we may grow back to that and understand its importance more clearly after death. Being human, I think, limits much of what Humans are.) As I have grown, I have positively questioned my faith through personal research (the best of which has been offline! I am very lucky to know some very intelligent and insightful spiritual people) I encourage you to continue to examine the one called Jesus because there seems to be an infinite amount of wisdom to be derived from those teachings. I cannot sit here and explain why I am a Christian though, other than that is what seems to be the best path for me. The Catholic faith, I embrace because of its philosophical nature.

And for other posters, do not attack the Catholic faith here, all it will do is take up space and be sooo off-topic.

Originally posted by Nohup
I think it's interesting that historical proof of Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) existing is relatively easy to find, whereas proof of the Jesus as told about in the Bible stories is essentially non-existent.

Here is what i've gathered from my own research about the history of Buddha:

- They don't even know when Budhha lived.

There is no complete agreement among scholars and Buddhist traditions regarding the dates of the historical Buddha. The most common dates among Buddhists are those of the Theravāda school, 623-543 B.C.E. From the middle of the 19th century until recently, Western scholars had believed the dates of the Buddha to be ca. 560-480 B.C.E. However, after the publication in 1991-2 of the proceedings of the international symposium on the date of the historical Buddha held in Göttingen in 1988, the original consensus on these dates no longer exists.

Although there is no conclusive evidence for any specific date, most current scholars locate the Buddha’s life one hundred years earlier, around the fifth century B.C.E. Some of the new dates for the Buddha’s "death" or more accurately, for his parinirvāṇa are: ca. 404 B.C.E. (R. Gombrich), between 410-390 B.C.E. (K.R. Norman), ca. 400 B.C.E. (R. Hikata), ca. 397 B.C.E. (K.T.S. Sarao), between ca.400-350 B.C.E. (H. Bechert), 383 B.C.E. (H. Nakamura), 368 B.C.E. (A. Hirakawa), between 420-380 B.C.E. (A. Bareau).

- Buddha did not write anythign down.what we have was passed down orally for 300 years.

The historical Buddha did not write down any of his teachings, they were passed down orally from generation to generation for at least three centuries.

The first complete biographies of the Buddha as well as the Jātaka stories about his former lives appeared centuries later.

www.iep.utm.edu...
*Not a Christian Site.

To say that this is more proof than we have of Jesus is absurd. We have writigns about Jesus that were written within 30+/40 years within the Crucifxion (30 CE) - Paul's letters. (c48.-68 CE). Paul mentions meeting with people who knew Jesus, and he talks about some points in Jesus life.

The Gospels are all agreed to have been written within the first century.


WHAT WE HAVE OF BUDHHA COMES FROM CENTURIES LATER.

...That is All...





[edit on 13-9-2008 by Boywonder13]

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Boywonder13]

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Boywonder13]

Originally posted by Boywonder13

Originally posted by noobfun
Originally posted by Bombeni

Why would i need Lucian to say that when scholars agreee with the 7 undisputed Letters of Paul where he meets members of the 12 and even has some problems with them. Even critical scholars accept them.

ahh... that was fun.

Yes remember the council of Jerusalem. The apostle, James the Lesser who wanted Christians to be required to follow Jewish law, in dispute with Paul who wanted to spread the message to pagans without necessitating conversion to Judaism first. Peter and other church leaders were also there. I don't need to cite this. It was a recorded historical event in the New Testament, like many other stories of the first Christians.

I mean everyone with an IQ over 5 knows that Jesus, A.k.A Yehshua existed. I doubt anyone with some knowledge doubts that but what people doubt is if he was a man of god and if he was the messiah or not.

Actually to me, it does not matter if he lives or lived.

There are thousands of Jesus-like characters during that time (John the Baptist himself etc) preaching about God. There are also thousands being sentenced to death by crucifications.

Therefore, he is just another guy who tries to change the world but was himself crucified.

What irk me off is not about God or Bible or Christ... but the followers of Christ (Not all of them though )

Anyway, Christians tend to follow the bible so closely and rigidly that I begin to wonder:
1. Are they following the teachings of Christ or simply adhere to the narrated and translated records from the so called apostles?
2. The bible has been proven to be a congregation of filtered personal and passed-down records of Christians who, in their own claims testify that their own version is accurate.
3. In the old testaments, God is seen to be vengeful and always involved and intervene in the daily and often apocalyptic events (which strangely often only occured in Egypt and the Middle East) such as parting of the red sea, the ark etc.
4. During Jesus's time, there are very little mentioned about God.

Anyway ancient historians can never be 100% true and accurate. Scribes and historians if you may tend to distort the truth to gain favour from their kings and lords. In those times, anything been said against their will or liking will be deemed heresy and may land the person in death penalty.

The fact that Christians were being prosecuted may be true, but Christians themselves prosecute other religion once they are in power... These are historical facts and there is no need to quote any references.

Sorry that this is quite out of context.