Flight 93 Crash/ Shotdown Theory...Secondary Plan Initiated.

It was not flight 93 that created the crater, but it was shot down.

Just sitting here and thinking about this part of what may be the 9/11 somoking gun conspiracy and what would have to take place for it to be pulled off without raising too many flags I have come up with this scenario.

I am going off evidence others have brought forward which have placed questions in my mind about the official story.

I usually do not post in this forum because I still have no clear picture about what happened that day. But anyway, here it is...

Ok..
So, assuming flight 93 did not create the whole in the ground that was found in Shanksville Penn.

Obviously the question comes up...then what did?

Well, considering the scope of what happened that day, I think it is very conceivable that a secondary plan was initiated.

Here is what I think may have happened...

-The aircraft was taken over by "terrorists" as the phone calls and FAA reports indicate at the times mentioned. This gives the impression to the public that all that was said to occur really happened the way they said. In other words, why lie when you just have to omit a few details?

- the crew and passengers did exactly what was said they did. They took and overran the "terrorists"...possibly killing them (or even worse for the conspirators, keeping them alive). They took back the airplane and it was under their control, but most likely the pilots were killed and no one had any real experience flying a jet airliner.

(this is where the secondary plan is initiated. Probably with a big "oh, sh**" from the conspirators)

-Some kind of indicator or flag was given to a crew in a trailing aircraft by the "terrorists" of 93 that something has gone wrong. Their mission: incomplete. The secondary plan had to be initiated.

-The secondary or backup plan consisting of 2 steps. 1) The order had to be given to shoot down the aircraft so it could not be landed and no investigation or interrogation of the suspected terrorists could occur. 2) There were accounts of other aircraft in the vicinity of 93 and shanksville. I believe one of them may have been an "eye in the sky" loaded with the secondary plan keeping tabs on the hijacked aircraft ready to initiate phase 2 of the secondary plan. The secondary plan being a standby missile formed to give the impression of a commercial jetliner to slam in the ground and leave traces of a commercial jet to make it seem like it was a crash.

I believe both of these steps may have taken place. This is just a theory based off of my logic.

Some questions that would have to be answered.
1) Who gave the order to shoot down 93?
(I though this was supposed to be an executive decision)

2)Where is the full blackbox recording for 93?

3) Who was in the trailing aircraft that released the "missile?"

There are obviously much more, but I believe this to be a start.

Im no investigator by any menas, but this scenario to me seems to be logical and could have taken place. If anyone has anything to refute it by all means please post. Or if anyone has anything to add, or subtract to it by all means, please post.

Here are some questions you will need to answer to investigate your theory.

1. Why does the CVR not contain any of this?
2. How do you explain the DNA found at Shanksville
3. How do you explain the personal effects found at Shanksville
4. What happened to actual plane? Large amounts of debris were found in and around the crater area.

I look forward to your responses.

reply to post by exponent


Does anyone have a link to the entire CVR recording? All I have heard is parts...

Originally posted by habu71
Does anyone have a link to the entire CVR recording? All I have heard is parts...

As far as I know only the transcript was released as part of the ZM trial exhibits. The audio version was only played for family members because of the sensitivity of it. I don't think the audio version is available to the public.

1. Why does the CVR not contain any of this?

Im sorry I do not know what a CVR is. Could you fill me in?

2. How do you explain the DNA found at Shanksville
3. How do you explain the personal effects found at Shanksville

Those are excellent questions. I guess it depends on how far a conspiracy someone is willing to strectch. I could come up with a few different scenarios though. For example: If they (whoever knew the order to shoot down 93 was given) anticipated the order to be given how hard is it to say they could have had the foresight to plant the traces of evidence at the crash site immediately after the missile hit its target? Same thing goes for pieces of the airliner. While the actual crash was swiftly contained and cleaned up.

The other half to that is there has not been much in way of evidence shown to the public from the crash site. Also, the pictures immediately after do not show much either. So even though those questions are good ones, they do not necessarily dispute the theory, in my opinion.

The real question in my opinion is where are the witnesses and pieces of the aircraft that was actually shot down?

Large amounts of debris were found in and around the crater area.

Well, I was not there, but the pictures and eye witness accounts show the contrary.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic

Im sorry I do not know what a CVR is. Could you fill me in?


Well, I was not there, but the pictures and eye witness accounts show the contrary.

This alone shows you have not done sufficient research into flight 93.

Thanks

-TY-

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
Im sorry I do not know what a CVR is. Could you fill me in?

A CVR is a Cockpit Voice Recorder. It records all conversations taking place in the cockpit (and I believe some other comms channels?) in order to aid accident investigation.

The other half to that is there has not been much in way of evidence shown to the public from the crash site. Also, the pictures immediately after do not show much either. So even though those questions are good ones, they do not necessarily dispute the theory, in my opinion.

I'll agree they certainly don't immediately disprove your theory, but they certainly do dispute it. You can speculate about planting DNA samples and aircraft wreckage, but without any empirical evidence it remains an unanswered question. If you use 'planted evidence' as the explanation for the effects found at Shanksville (drivers licenses, wedding rings and other such items) then you must assume that these have all been faked beforehand or recovered from the remains of the shot down jet. This is not a small task and would involve a lot of work, it is a serious question that needs to be answered.

The real question in my opinion is where are the witnesses and pieces of the aircraft that was actually shot down?

If you look through the trial exhibits here: www.vaed.uscourts.gov... you can find a number of photographs of pieces of aircraft. A summarised and easier to reference version is located here: wtc7lies.googlepages.com... (actually these pictures are currently dead, so you might want to check back at a later date).

This alone shows you have not done sufficient research into flight 93.

Never claimed to have done "sufficient" research into flight 93.

Only created a theory from what I have seen and read.

Don't like it? Too bad bud.

Like I said. If you have something to refute, add or subtract then feel free.

reply to post by exponent

This is not a small task and would involve a lot of work, it is a serious question that needs to be answered.

totally agree. I did think about that, and have no real answer. Especially if the crash site of the shot down jet is nowhere near the "missile" site.

My theory is based off general facts I have come across.
In no way am I trying to lay this down as something concrete. Just something I thought worth thinking about.

About the CVR. Thanks for the explanation. From what I understand the full contents of the CVR have not been released. Another thing that has to be speculated upon by the general public unfortunately.

That is one of the things rather odd about the 9/11 "investigation", the secracy. The more secrets withheld from the public the more outlandish conspiracies we will/ have seen. If things were a little more open, Im sure we would have more questins cleared up in the mind of the public.

I will check out the links you provided though. Thanks

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


As another stated, a CVR is Cockpit Voice Recorder. Depending on the model and the aircraft, it records radio communications, interphone (cockpit to Flight Attendant communications via the interphone, the handset the FA uses) and cockpit conversations via "area microphones". When reading a transcript, CAM refers to cockpit area microphone, often designated as CAM1 (Captain), CAM2 (First Officer) and sometimes CAM3 (behind both pilots).

It is extremely important to note that "most" CVR's have either 30 or 60 minute loops (most 30), meaning that it continuously records over after 30 minutes have elapsed. (A side note, most CVR's are activated by the aircraft parking brake being released and deactivated by the brake being set.

I must admit, as conspiracy theories go, this one seems to contradict itself more then most. Not only did the government have the foresight to create a false crash site, but they also shot it down and got it to crash somewhere else. It would seem to me that the first thing your theory needs to explain is where the shot down plane did crash. In other theories the plane that supposedly crashed was actually flown & landed at super secret airport in Cleveland, Pittsburg or Disneyland. I really am interested in where your theory puts the crash sight.

I am on the fence about whether the plane crashed or was shot down, but any/all evidence points to a plane crashed in Shanksville.

Just some advice, normally theories spawn from unusual evidence, not just the lack of a certain combination of aspects of other conspiracy theories.


[edit on 6-9-2008 by Jake the Dog Man]

Well the CVRs and FDRs were sequestered by the FBI and the entire tapes have not been released, (which in itself raises qurestions)

911research.wtc7.net...

A source close to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) who asked to remain anonymous when asked about the " ongoing [black box] investigation, " told us that "the NTSB never closely examined the cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) and flight data recorders (FDRs) recovered from American Flight 77 which hit the Pentagon, and United flight 93 which crashed in Pennsylvania. " This, while the FBI has continued to quietly dodge vexing questions related to its prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and how the Bureau’s widely-reported inept and mishandled information protocol cost so many lives.

The source added that “the [CVR and FDR] tapes were sequestered by the FBI and quickly taken to its Quantico, Virginia labs where analysis was conducted solely under the Bureau’s influence in order to maintain complete control.” However, according to the individual with knowledge of the investigation, “there were a few NTSB officials allowed to observe, but their influence on the probe and tape inspection was minimal at best.”

We also talked to Michael Thompson, chief engineer in the CVR/FDR division of Allied Signal-Honeywell Corporation in Redmond, Washington -- according to his counsel, Mark Larson.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well the CVRs and FDRs were sequestered by the FBI and the entire tapes have not been released, (which in itself raises qurestions)

The FDR data has been released as this has been shown to you countless times Ultima. Do I need to show you AGAIN? Stop being so disingenuous.

Portions of the CVR were released during the Maousoui trial. The victims families were also allowed to listen to the CVR. For privacy reasons...they have not been released.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
The FDR data has been released as this has been shown to you countless times Ultima.

You mean the FDR data that has been questioned by professionals ?

Portions of the CVR were released during the Maousoui trial. The victims families were also allowed to listen to the CVR. For privacy reasons...they have not been released.

Why only portions? Why wont they release all?

[edit on 6-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Stop moving the goal posts. You stated the FDR was not released. IT was.

You said the CVR was not released. Portions were.

Now you say the FDR is questioned? Please show the evidence that it is wronr.

The CVR was NOT released for privacy reasons. As I mentioned.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
You stated the FDR was not released. IT was.

Please be adult enought to read post before responding. I stated they were sequestered. I have the FDR data from Flight 77.

As far as it being questioned there are several threads on here about it, maybe you should try reading them.

The CVR was NOT released for privacy reasons. As I mentioned.

And thats complete BS. I would think anyone with some common sense should reallize that.

I mean how come we can get other CVR recordings?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well the CVRs and FDRs were sequestered by the FBI and the entire tapes have not been released, (which in itself raises qurestions)

The FDR information was released in it's entirety. The victims families did in fact listen to the CVR.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


And thats complete BS. I would think anyone with some common sense should reallize that.

I mean how come we can get other CVR recordings?

Please show me what other CVR's that were made public after a hijacking, or other commercial airplane disaster.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
The victims families did in fact listen to the CVR.

I will state it one more time becasue i know your a believer.

THE COMPLETE CVR WAS NOT RELEASED.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Please show me what other CVR's that were made public after a hijacking, or other commercial airplane disaster.

Ok, no problem, how about we start with Flight 800, since it was considered a crime scene originally and then again when witnesses stated they saw a missile.

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