*ALERT* We may have our first real case for a valid UFO.

Well I'm certainly no expert but I have to agree with some of the points the sketpics and debunkers have pointed out and some of the points that the believers pointed out as well.. The fact that these are videos taken from a bunch of different places in the world makes it unlikely that they were all using the same type of camera. Although it is possible that the iris effect could very well be similar in each camera,the fact of the matter is that there must still be an object that is either reflecting or producing the light that we see. I must also point out that the effect is produced when the camera attempts to zoom in on the object, a fairly strong case for the effect of aperture or iris. However as I said there must have been something unusual in the sky that caused the videographers to even turn on their cameras in the first place.
I wonder if someone more familiar with camera tech. could answer a question? Would it be better to use a manual focusing film camera, like an old 8 or 16mm so that the iris effect is reduced or eliminated? A clear shot captured on film,with no distortion would be very difficult to debunk.

reply to post by jamstrat


It would not have to stay in the center, note that I am not suggesting that the camera is directly filming something inside it in the same way that it would film a bug on the lens, but that something inside it distorts the light coming in resulting in a "point spread function" with the shape of a diamond, or with a shape matching the hole in the iris. The shape would be aligned to the camera in the same way any optical device's point spread function stays aligned with the device.

My hypothesis is that to reproduce this, the trick is to get the camera out of focus, or if the camera focus is not manual, shoot in conditions that would make the auto focus unable to work correctly.

I have added a link about lens flare. I recognize that lens flare is a related but different camera distortion, but you can see how some of the projections resulting from lens flare have a geometric shape, often a 6 to 9 side regular polygon. This polygon in lens flare corresponds to the number of leafs that make the iris, as would be the case in a professional type SLR camera.

I guess that means that the lens effect hypothesis requires the number of leafs in a consumer grade camcorder to be 4 for a wide number of cameras in order for the hypothesis to match the data. Somebody who has more experience with those can answer that question.


www.cambridgeincolour.com...

If by tomorrow this effect has not been reproduced and posted, I'll try to reproduce it using my digital camera, see what effect I get, if any, and post my results.

It would be good to know what camera was used when those objects were shot.

[edit on 11-8-2008 by rickyrrr]

Thank you Nephra for an interesting thread. Right off the bat the title could be less sensationalistic. I would have gone with "Presenting evidence of multiple sightings of similar UFO" or something just stating what you are doing as opposed to fishing for views or stars. I don't think you are like that so that is all I will say about that.

I haven't seen similar shapes in my years of film and digital photography so I am not buying that theory unless someone tells (and shows) me how to replicated it. I will start looking for other similar craft.

Someone must have classified these different UFO types I should think.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
reply to post by NephraTari

 

Your the one that does not understand basic camera and lens artifacts, and yet your lack of knowledge (called "ignorance") concerning how your primary evidence shown here is gathered doesn't stop you from making claims that...well...should embarrass you.

I would suggest that if you are going to make outrageous assumptions about things, you should already know the basics of how the evidence is collected and displayed. Therefore, the videos and evidence you show us will keep getting better and better.

All I know, is if I was going to come on here and claim something was a UFO or Alien ship or something, I would damn well know the basics about the collection equipment before I displayed my ignorance...thats all I'm saying, lol.

I think you show your ignorance by replying this way! The OP has a legit question that I think should receive a legit response. You should stop being ignorant and help to explain by posting a video showing how it can be done mister know it all! I have not read through all the post but when people come off this way to some one that is only seeking the truth it really bothers me!!

[edit on 8/11/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Originally posted by jamstrat
I don't know squat about cameras so bare with me.

If the artifact was caused by a piece of the camera, the iris lense or whatever, wouldnt that diamond shape stay in the center of the frame all the time. Ive seen a picture of the diamond shape piece in the camera and to me it would seem if this was the piece causing the artifact, that the artifact would stay in the center of the image, but what do I know.



[edit on 11-8-2008 by jamstrat]

What is confusing to me is that skeptics are ready to blame optics and camera malfunction on these so called UFO's. If I see an object in the sky that looks to be diamond shape and I take a picture of it how can you blame the camera for reproducing what I see?
Or is the objection that there was nothing there to begin with, and what we are seeing is just optical artifacts?

Originally posted by Camilo1
I remember once watching a UFO documentary and there was a guy in it from Sony or Panasonic who explained that sometimes these diamond shape UFOs are the product of a part of the shutter that is shaped like a diamond.

nevertheless nice post NephraTari, thanks for the videos.

Agreed. While many of Nephra's videos could very well be UFO's. The diamond shape is nothing new. It only happens when an object is zoomed in on from very far away,and blurred, and I have always suspected a diamond shaped iris. Until there's a close up of something IN FOCUS that is diamond shaped, I will be on the "diamond shaped camera iris" team. Good post though. I've been wanting to settle this debate for a while now.

BTW: Thread title is no bueno. Nephra, I'm surprised. That usually not your style.



[edit on 11-8-2008 by NightVision]

reply to post by groingrinder


Although I agree with you that this is possible I must state this. I recorded something VERY similar to this back in January 07. Unfortunately I didn't know how to turn the auto focus off on the camera. I never have had to before so this really killed the quality. However, for the first few seconds we got a few good images. I say good as they are similar to these. Only briefly as I raced downstairs to try and find our tripod so we could at least get a steady picture. Well, by the time I got back upstairs, not more than a couple minutes, it was far enough away that we would no longer get any close up images. Also, as shown in the close up images, there was a small dot that came out of it and rotated around very slowly.

Also, it is not a digital camera so the image as we saw it in the viewfinder was not like that of the one shown on the TV. That's what really bugged me. You see, if any of these are real (I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt for it to be so widespread across the globe), then it means there is something up there. Either it is earth based and new technology or non-terrestrial.

I know, it's my word versus the skeptics. Also, it was piss poor video quality do to the camera and the auto focus. Doesn't change that we saw something that was bright orange when zoomed in on and saucer/diamond shaped just like these. My wife was excited, more so than I was. I have seen things like this quite a few times which has me wondering whether they are earth based or not. Until proven otherwise I guess I am leaning more towards earth based secret objects.

So, even though you make a good point on how this can be faked, I must give my input on the fact I have seen this personally on my own camera and there was no paper with holes cut out or whatever. Just so you can hopefully open your mind to that option too.

reply to post by rickyrrr


This is the one explanation I can go with for my experience. It could just as easily be because of the components within the camera and how it views the object. I just don't get the orange glow that eminates from these objects. Especially the ones filmed in daylight.

I'd like to state first that I AM a believer in ufo's. I have seen many good pictures, and even a few good videos. Some of these were hoaxes(hati ufos?). Looking at these videos I really am like WTF?!?!

Why aren't there ever any good videos? Why is the camera always shaking and zooming in and out?

In today's day and age I'd imagine there would be atleast a few good videos. Instead we have ADMITTED hoaxes that look much more real then anything that is still up for debate.

These videos on here, or horrible. I'm not saying they aren't real, I'm just saying that aren't worth even debating. They easily could be hoaxes. It is a freakin shape, it doesn't even look like it has three dimentions.

The shaky camera and abuse of the zoom function makes me think fake even more.

I will never post a photo or a video on here if I get one, just because I know it will get torn up by the debunkers.

reply to post by NightVision


Yes I know. my only defense is that it was late and I was excited.

sorry bout that. it is over the top. where is the blushing emoticon when you need it?

Originally posted by tiagoratto
If I'm not mistalen there's a painting with some kind of ufo of the same shape

i think u mean this one ?

The Madonna with Saint Giovannino:

(hope this works first time i try uploading an image


[img]http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=themadonnawithsaintgiovxi5.jpg][/URL][/img]

regards

Definitely a few very interesting videos. However, i could see how one or two could be an anomaly, i just wonder what its an anomaly of...You usually dont see lights that bright that arent flashing, and/or landing lights on an airplane....Which, to me, didnt seem to behave like aircraft. This is all just MHO though...

[edit on 11-8-2008 by SilentBob86]

NephraTari,

I am a believer but none of those video's you posted are alien, one of them is just a set of Chinese lanterns that is out of focus and when the guy gets them in focus you can CLEARLY see a series of lanterns flickering and in some cases going out and falling.

The rest are 100% the camera lens artifact that people are saying, can you not see that although the shape is of a diamond and the edges defined that the inside is just a swirling mass, that's because it's the product of the lens trying to focus on a point of light that's very small. The lens 'thinks' it's in focus at times and makes that weird looking shape.

Sorry, having seen a triangle myself and a total believer in this area I would love to agree with you but whatever these things in the video's are, they are being viewed incorrectly.

ie, if those camera's had focused correctly I'd bet many that glow orange would be lanterns..

reply to post by NephraTari


I have a new proposal anytime someone used the word "ignorant" more than two times with OBVIOUS rude undertones may as well be saying STUPID! who is he trying to fool

i like your thread, and i knew right off the bat that you must have been excited.. its good your still using your gut..keep up the good work.

Jim sparks refers to a diamond shape ufo many times, in his book the keepers. maybe his iris has a lens problem too.

i say that to say this, cameras may have lense issues. but the coincidence that a lens issue is the same shape as a ufo is still a possibility..

why hasnt anyone touched on the flight behavior of the object..hmmmm regardless of shape, it seems to be pulling of some rather interesting aerial phenomena.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by LordThumbs]

First off I am a believer of unearthly activity, that said I agree with the debunkers and sceptics on this. Unfortunately it has been proven that is indeed the iris of the camera and can be seen on several videos that are available on YouTube. What happens is that there is an object in the sky that the camera focuses on but its the iris of the lens that makes the diamond.

Yeah I don't know about these.

Get some more "valid" UFO videos.

Thanks though

what about the color changes- can any camera do that?

And it does seem possible that cameras could all be doing similar things even if they are different brands. They're all built the same.

Lets see a reproduction though, that would help.

reply to post by rickyrrr
TO EVERYONE!!!

tose of you who are waiting for groingrinder to reproduce the effect they said they where going to, i think you all missed the post where they said.

I failed horribly to reproduce with a digital camera the effects that I can get with a film camera with little trouble. The problem being that my digital camera will not manually focus. It always focus's the lights and the focal length of the lens is too small. That does not mean that my explanation is wrong, just that my particular camera is the wrong one to try it with.

That was on page two about four posts down, so your not going to get an example, also who is to say the people who caught this footage used the types of cameras the skeptics are saying causes this?

A lot of the nasty replies on this thread seem to come from new accounts which tells me something, also ignorethefacts never has anything positive to say about any UFO footage ever, always seems to antagonize more than participate in a meaningful way, even have one poster using bad grammar as an excuse for fake video's WHAT!!!

These video's are a great collection, also since when does the center of a lens move around with the object? some of these objects aint even in the middle of the shot, so how does the lens aperture cause it?

So the OP is right lets see the evidence of the camera being the cause?

Another user was also right, very few who used to post pictures and video's with an honest delight in sharing they wont anymore, myself included, not until this all flaming crap and name calling rubbish is under control.

I may as well reinforce. Simple lights shot out of focus through a diamond shaped shutter common in camcorders.

Here is a quick graphic to show the shape of the shutter and how it works -



Shoot as many messengers as you want, but it won't change what these are.

Many shutters are also hexagonal which gives the orb shaped ones. Depends on the camera.

this is hardly proof of anything,,, just more fuzzy pictures of a light in the sky ... thats why they are called ufos.. not spacecraft from outerspace.. just unidentified flying objects.. who knows if it was flying, floating, falling or flapping..