"The Porn Myth"

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack
...I don't even completely blame him for the things he did, if anyone in the world can claim not guilty due to ignorance, he could. And what did I learn from that?
Don't date virgins, or at the very least not ones who have absolutely zero understanding of how the real world of sex works. ...

OMG. I completely missed this. What you SHOULD HAVE learned from this is "Hmmm... there may come a time in life in which I will have to show a male how to successfully have good sex with me.", but apparently that lesson whipped right by you. But let me guess... It's not "hot" if you have to show him the basics of turning a woman on, right?

That right there is the basis for the "double standard" in male/female sexuality. As a man, you can be all kinds of things, but you'd better NOT be sexually inexperienced. Everything else is excusable.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
WTF?
I thought dude was being funny about the not crying thing. But not only is he serious but some of you "women" no less, are just as backwards thinking!
Men don't need to watch the death of a baby to justify crying. Maybe the birth of a daughter....maybe her marriage. Maybe some song hits home.
....OMG...am I just wasting my breath or what?

Yes, unfortunately, you are. You see, women today have this unrealistic picture of what "real men" are like. They want men to be something they never were, aren't, and never will be.

I will avoid crying in public at all costs but just because it is embarrassing to be in that type of vulnerable state. I also don't fart in public either.

If you have never seen your husband cry than you have one emotionaly repressed dude on your hands.

Hey, guess what you get when you have a guy or husband that won't share his emotions with you? You get the type of guy that will hide his porn habit from you.
( hide the emotion means lack of trust, lack of trust means lack of intimacy, lack of intimacy starts you down the road to every bad relationship type scenerio there is.)

All very good points. As a man, MOST women will expect you to hide your emotions, almost all of them, from her. Actually, not even hide, but to not possess them in the first place. Women today equate kindness and/or gentleness with weakness, as someone pointed out earlier.

Given this attitude, are you surprised that more men are turning to porn, rather than to women?

Porn having negative effects on society is no coincidence, you will find that 99% of mainstream porn is produced by zionist jews. This is their plan all along. Zionists will stop at nothing to destabilize society.

Porn is fantasy, not reality. If it was reality, people wouldn't watch porn. But for some reason people think porn is all real and that's how you're supposed to have sex. Or women who watch porn go around expecting men to all have 9" penises. Or men go around turning down women who have small breasts. Porn can get addicting to the male, and desensitize him to a real women in his relationship, ruining the relationship and maybe the woman's life.

it's nothing but evil.

Not from a a moral standpoint - I'm a die hard atheist - but porn IS evil.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Wait, wait, wait.

So, your entire premise infers that there are "lots of guys" who would leave a woman hanging sexually (so to speak), but when someone pins you down for specifics, it was just ONE GUY?

Is anyone else starting to see why a man might prefer porno to real women in the west?

Well, you COULD see it as "just one man", or, more realistically, you could see it as "50% of the men who have had the chance".
You see, you most likely compared my one outstanding example to however many people YOU have been with, and assumed it was a small percentage, whereas you should have been seeing it in terms of someone else's experience.
And while I understand that one out of a hundred wouldn't be "lots of guys", and that it would be a case of overexaggeration, but when its 1/2, it is reasonable.
Oh, and just because only one of them relates to my life, doesn't mean I don't know of others.

OMG. I completely missed this. What you SHOULD HAVE learned from this is "Hmmm... there may come a time in life in which I will have to show a male how to successfully have good sex with me.", but apparently that lesson whipped right by you. But let me guess... It's not "hot" if you have to show him the basics of turning a woman on, right?

That right there is the basis for the "double standard" in male/female sexuality. As a man, you can be all kinds of things, but you'd better NOT be sexually inexperienced. Everything else is excusable.

Once again making assumptions.
You never even stopped to think that maybe I did try to teach and inform? And maybe he was just too trained to think that he shouldn't have to, or just plain didn't have the skills to do so.

Believe me, I tried my best, and was 100% resigned to living a life full of terrible sex because of my feelings for him, but fortunately for me, he decided it wasn't working out.
And inexperienced wasn't the whole point of my post, you seem to have skimmed over "or at the very least not ones who have absolutely zero understanding of how the real world of sex works."
You don't need to have had sex to understand how to do things. There are plenty of resources online, in book stores, or hell, even talking to female friends if you're brave enough, to figure out what simply doesn't work for anyone, and what needs to be done in 99% of cases.

(no, that isn't generalising either. Try putting it into a bone dry vagina and you'll see why some things simply have to be done, unless you want to cause extreme pain. Of course, you can always find a woman who doesn't mind being torn apart.)

reply to post by Res Ipsa


reply to post by sir_chancealot


You two kind of lost me when you said you saw the women in this thread agreeing with the man who said it is not acceptable for men to cry at all under any circumstance. I did not see any female in this thread agree with such an opinion.

Did you two perhaps misread something?

Generally, it is men who make it hard for other men to express emotion- not women. We want you guys to have emotion, to open up to us, and to feel safe with us. As in, we're your haven in a rough world. In my observation, it is men who tell other men to 'stop being a pussy' or to 'man up.'

I think you two are wrong on this one.

Men crying. Hmmm. Well over something like the death of a loved one, that is understandable. But crying over other things (in front of others, what they do on their own is their own business) is a bit weird.

I think it is a cultural thing, I have dated european men and not ONLY do they cry, they TELL you about it afterward. I.e. I missed you and I cried all night..blah blah blah. Why on earth would they feel the need to share that? That just freaks me out.

The only time I will cry in front of others is at the vets office when death happens. I am not embarrassed by that because they see it all the time and it is part of their job to deal with it and their feelings come second. Though many women have a weird glitch, if we get extremely angry and cannot express it (i.e. work situation) it can cause involuntary crying instead. That really sucks, and demands an immediate trip to the ladies room.

wow!!! porn is for entertainment. ok, maybe a few tips. seems that people have made it some kind of standard. not all women are or wish to be the "girl next door". nor should they have to compete. and not all men want the girl next door. or they do but only for a short time. i think it is more important to be ok with yourself and your partner. any part of faking it is for the birds. if you have to fake it, go home. i can do the rest myself. a lot gets lost in the porn industry. the point is to not lose yourself in it. it is only a movie.

uh....there you go Ashley. A woman who could do without the crying unless of course you are at the Vets.

It is truly hard to amaze me with anything but I have to say I really am about the crying issue. I feel my need to avoid it at all costs, a weakness and a hinderance to a more intimate relationship. I have never had peer pressure telling me to man up and I honestly don't know too many guys that say crying is for little girls. I have had more than a guy friend or two that seem to find a reason to cry when their wives left them or when finding out they were having an affair. I didn't think once to say, "hey, stop crying you pussy!"

Oh, thats right....look at that pussy Brett Farve....crying like a baby on national t.v........why? He wasn't going to play football any more.....yeah, he is the poster child for pussyman isn't he?! Crying over a stupid little game....Man up!

Hey to the poster from egypt that started this whole BS about crying. Do you know who Brett Farve is? Is he a girly man?

Originally posted by Sonya610
Now analyze him or even defend him, I suspect that is far more annoying, notice the silence? LOL.

Nah, that's not annoying at all. It's just a lot more important to address people who are arguing against one's point. You're usually right, so I don't have to make a post that challenges your opinion. As far as analysis goes, that's nothing but labels for personality types and whatnot. Being that I am myself, I figure I'm the most qualified to analyze myself.

Originally posted by DuneKnight

...The case, which had previously gone unreported, involved an engineer in his 30s, named as Mr X, who married Ms Y, a student nurse in her 20s, in 2006. The wedding night party was still under way at the family’s home in Roubaix when the groom came down from the bedroom complaining that his bride was not a virgin....

As a male, I always wondered about this. Wouldn't most women have broken their hymens by the time they first have sex anyway? You'd think a dildo would do the trick just as well.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
first off, i have to say this...it will only get worse. how so? well if you guys have been following with all that new upcoming technology porn will soon become 3D on new advanced TVs or even worse... Holograms which have already been developed. imagine the possibilities.

OK.... I've imagined the possibilities. How exactly is this a bad thing? Just because you don't want to enjoy pornography doesn't mean that most other people do. As a bonus, I think realistic sex substitutes with holograms, real dolls and the like could be a perfect product for people who are attracted to animals, prepubescent children and other beings who are legally off-limits for sex. If there could be a good non-biological surrogate for them, it could prevent countless sexual assaults on children and animals. I'm not sure if it would be as effective as a rape deterrant, since a lot of the enjoyment for the rapist is elicited from his target's victimization and emotional trauma, but I'm sure some more timid would-be rapists would think twice about following through with their fantasies if they could act them out in a satisfying enough, albeit virtual, manner.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack
Personally, I resent that.
You automatically assume that it is the fault of the woman somehow WITHOLDING the information about what she likes.
Nobody would do that.
If she doesn't know what she wants, then obviously she can't tell you. In which case you TRY things until you find what works.
I don't know any woman who would purposefully deprive herself of pleasure in a sexual relationship, unless she had some sort of harsh religious upbringing that made her think sex was wrong....

As a man, I resent that. It is not our responsibility to provide you with any additional pleasure during sex than the incidental enjoyment you may or may not receive while we obtain our goal. You can easily get off on your own time, and you should. If I'm pre-occupied with trying to please you, it will dull my own pleasures. That is not a sacrifice I am willing to make!

reply to post by Res Ipsa


First of all, I am not sure why you are arguing with me (someone who is saying the same thing you are). Second, you seemed to have missed my use of the world 'generally' in my above post. Third, Sonya's post came after your previous comment so I am still lost when you said you were shocked to see the females agreeing with Dune Knight's opinions about crying men.

Anyways, I have never once- not once- ridiculed my husband for crying. The only time I came even remotely close was when we had been married for four days and he broke down sobbing because he didn't get his 5 year old daughter from a previous marriage the Barbie Jeep she wanted for Christmas. I thought my husband had lost his damn mind but didn't want to say anything because if I ridiculed him then, he might be hesitant to open up to me in the future. Men do have very fragile hearts and I didn't want to abuse his openness with me. It turned out to be a good thing I kept my mouth shut and ended up just sitting there holding him and stroking his hair because he later told me the flood of emotions came after a child hood memory of his- which turned to out to be an issue resulting in his father's suicide when my husband was only seven.

So, yes, men should be able to cry without ridicule. Their emotions are their own. I wouldn't want a man who looks at the sunset and starts crying like a little girl (my personal preference that I am entitled to) but I can be considerate and understanding of a man's right to cry.

We can also turn this around. I cannot count how many times I have heard men talk about how much it makes them cringe when a woman cries. Either the men who express these sentiments think we are emotional windbags guided by nothing but unjustifiable emotion or think we are crying on purpose in order to manipulate them and get our way.

So it works both ways, guys.

In my opinion, every human being has a right to cry regardless of gender. Heck, even regardless of whether or not whatever the cause is justifiable to someone else. Everyone else might think you are being silly but if you feel the need, I say go ahead. Others will disagree and that is fine by me.

And no, I don't think Brett Favre is any less of a man for crying.

Originally posted by EverythingYouDespise

As a man, I resent that. It is not our responsibility to provide you with any additional pleasure during sex than the incidental enjoyment you may or may not receive while we obtain our goal. You can easily get off on your own time, and you should. If I'm pre-occupied with trying to please you, it will dull my own pleasures. That is not a sacrifice I am willing to make!

I'm apologize in advance if you have already given out this info and I missed it, but I'm curious as to your age. I may be totally far off but I'm guessing you are in your early 20's and have yet to have a long-term meaningful relationship or any type of relationship based on anything besides wether or not you were pleased in bed.

And am I correct in assuming from your posts that you are looking for a woman cares less about getting any pleasure or fun for herself, that you want a woman that is there solely to satisfy you?

Isn't it a double standard for you to not care about her pleasure and yet you want a woman who will only care about your pleasure? If you aren't to be bothered with trying to please a woman what makes you think a woman wants to be bothered with trying to please you? Do I hear the word 'selfish'? Maybe you should 'get off' on your own time too!



[edit on 7-8-2008 by MsFab]

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack
You automatically assume that it is the fault of the woman somehow WITHOLDING the information about what she likes. Nobody would do that.
If she doesn't know what she wants, then obviously she can't tell you. In which case you TRY things until you find what works.

Well a lot of times women are being nice and not saying what they DON'T like because they don't want to hurt the guys feelings.

But in reality, a good lover that really seeks to please knows to JUST ASK. If I am really into a partner and really want to please, vs. just letting the chips fall where they may, I ask. If it is interactive asking "how do you like this? harder, softer, slower, faster? Tell me." If you ask like that you are MUCH more likely to get an honest answer. You are providing them with the responses so it is easier for them to answer, and if they give a "its all good" answer then tell them you want an answer.

Everyone is a bit different, anyone with a brain would ask unless things are going so incredibly well words seem pointless.

Also, RI, I would like to reiterate my previous opinion.

I strongly believe, generally speaking and through personal observation, that it is men who place the burden on other men to be a tough guy.

Of course I am from Texas so my observations will be based on somewhat of extreme circumstances but too many times in my life I have known men who when in public with 'the guys' act very macho and 'hard' but come undone when alone with me. They soften and feel at ease.

My opinion is also backed up by the general qualities of the feminine and masculine characteristics.

Feminine: Nurturer.
Masculine: Protector.

Of course there will be exceptions. In this instance you who believes it is wholly acceptable for men to cry while Sonya, a female, is a little harder on men in that area. However, again, generally speaking, it seems men are the ones who place that burden on other man to not be 'a wuss.'

Think of the stereotypical mothers who coddle their sons when they are hurt and the stereotypical father who tells him suck it up. It's just the way it is, again, generally speaking.

On the crying part I remember the day Wayne Gretsky was traded from Edmonton he cried, strong life changing events can make most men cry.

In my mind it doesn't make them less of a man, by crying.

There was one man who had perfect emotional balance and he cried when Lazarus died, even though he had the power to fix it, and he did fix it.

John 11:35 "Jesus gave way to tears".

So to me the men that never shed one tear ever, are the screwed up ones.
Either that or their life is just too perfect.

However a babbling bawling man is not a pretty sight.

reply to post by AshleyD


I wasn't arguing with you but I felt I was going to have to go back and find an example of a posting from a woman about this and then Sonya's was right there. So it was more of a....ahaa, there ya go, see?

But...sorry don't know or hang around guys that have complained about their wives crying too much. We all admit that it is an effective tool though when the tears are real and with cause. But try the "...boo hoo...you don't love me anymore....boo hoo...you think I'm fat"
That would start a fight rather than getting whatever it is that she would be going for.

So, I think we are done with the crying and the virginity tangent this thread took.

I don't cry when I watch porn.....well sometimes tears from laughing at the acting and the over the top fake pleasure sounds the women make.

reply to post by Res Ipsa


Thanks for that comment. It cracked me up in a good way (laughing with you) and not a bad way (laughing at you).

Originally posted by Sonya610


But in reality, a good lover that really seeks to please knows to JUST ASK. If I am really into a partner and really want to please, vs. just letting the chips fall where they may, I ask.

Ding. Ding. to my young male friends out there, do you hear what she is saying? Now there are plenty of scenerios where this becomes less or more realiable but as a general rule.....if you are dating a woman and are wondering where you stand, well, "...letting the chips fall where they may" when it comes to sex, doesn't bode well for you. Take heed my young padawans. Communication is always a good sign.

This is even more true for you females. If we don't ask....we don't care. aint that right my sociopathic friend, Mr. Everythingyoudespise?
(if you sleep with a guy like that before you knew this about him, and it bothers you....well blame yourself equally.)

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
uh....there you go Ashley. A woman who could do without the crying unless of course you are at the Vets.

It is truly hard to amaze me with anything but I have to say I really am about the crying issue. I feel my need to avoid it at all costs, a weakness and a hinderance to a more intimate relationship. I have never had peer pressure telling me to man up and I honestly don't know too many guys that say crying is for little girls. I have had more than a guy friend or two that seem to find a reason to cry when their wives left them or when finding out they were having an affair. I didn't think once to say, "hey, stop crying you pussy!"

Oh, thats right....look at that pussy Brett Farve....crying like a baby on national t.v........why? He wasn't going to play football any more.....yeah, he is the poster child for pussyman isn't he?! Crying over a stupid little game....Man up!

Hey to the poster from egypt that started this whole BS about crying. Do you know who Brett Farve is? Is he a girly man?

Brett Favre? sure isnt he a football player. yeah i have seen him on TV, we got the same tv channels that you guys have so yeah i heard of him. so he cried, big deal, they are the same people who like to shower naked with other men and pat each other on the ass and talk to each other in homosexual language; so yeah i think i got a good idea of who he is.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa

Originally posted by Sonya610

But in reality, a good lover that really seeks to please knows to JUST ASK. If I am really into a partner and really want to please, vs. just letting the chips fall where they may, I ask.

Ding. Ding. to my young male friends out there, do you hear what she is saying? Now there are plenty of scenerios where this becomes less or more realiable but as a general rule.....if you are dating a woman and are wondering where you stand, well, "...letting the chips fall where they may" when it comes to sex, doesn't bode well for you. Take heed my young padawans. Communication is always a good sign.

This is even more true for you females. If we don't ask....we don't care. aint that right my sociopathic friend, Mr. Everythingyoudespise?
(if you sleep with a guy like that before you knew this about him, and it bothers you....well blame yourself equally.)

ya right what bull is this, men should never ask, they should already know. asking should only be a last resort or if the relationship has been going on for years non-stop. never ask for directions. if you do then obviously you are just winging it and that looks terrible, she will not hang around much and she would rather follow someone who actually PRETENDS to know whats hes doing. women like surprises, so you better surprise her. its a huge turn-off if u ask.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by DuneKnight]

I suppose other cultures have different ideas what is masculine and what is feminine.

We here in the West generally view Football as a man's sport. If you think it is akin to gymnastics or syncronized swimming...well ok then.

I think you are mistaken though if you think Brett is a closet homosexual.

But maybe you have a more accurate gaydar than anyone else.

I suppose I should be more put off by you thinking that gay men are all feminine. According to your leader Ahmadinejad, you don't have any gay people where you live, so I can't blame you for being ignorant of that knowledge.