Proof Islam is of the AntiChrist

reply to post by josephine


josephine,

your conclusion was not very conclusive.

if you read the whole Qur'an you will learn that the Gospel given to Jesus has been contaminated, and you chose to believe in the contamination instead of the truth.

you base the truthfulness of the Scriptures if they confess that Jesus died on the cross... The Torah has no such teachings, are you claiming that the God of Moses is not the God of Jesus? Hence, the Torah is a hoax?

Jesus never claimed to be God, never taught that salvation was in believing that he was crucified for the sins of mankind. Crucifixion in those times was a shameful punishment for grave crimes. What was Jesus' crime? If you truly love Jesus you would rejoice at the good tidings of the Final Messenger, that Jesus was not crucified, that God saved him from this ignominious fate. Yet you are wroth to find that he didn't die for your sins after all, that you are still in your sins, unless you ask for God's forgiveness and humbly prostrate yourself in front of him as Muslims do, five times a day, asking forgiveness and mercy from the Almighty.

003.079 It is not (possible) for any human being unto whom Allah had given the Scripture and wisdom and the prophethood that he should afterwards have said unto mankind: Be slaves of me instead of Allah; but (what he said was): Be ye faithful servants of the Lord by virtue of your constant teaching of the Scripture and of your constant study thereof.


The Prophet Muhammad was the prophet like unto Moses that God has promised to the Children of Israel in Deuteronomy.

8:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

18:19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him.

The brethren of Israel being the children of Ishmael, the father of the Arab Nations.

002.108 Or would ye question your messenger as Moses was questioned aforetime ? He who chooseth disbelief instead of faith, verily he hath gone astray from a plain road. Holy Qur'an

016.102 Say: The holy Spirit hath delivered it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).

002.097 Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who hath revealed (this Scripture) to thy heart by Allah's leave, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, and a guidance and glad tidings to believers.

002.098 Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.

God himself is witness that the holy spirit, the angel Gabriel delivered the Holy Qur'an to the heart of the Prophet Muhammad. Yet you call it a HOAX! Because it didn't say that Jesus died on the cross. The Holy Qur'an contains only the truth, that's why you didn't find this piece of fiction there.

041.042 Falsehood cannot come at it from before it or from behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise.

047.003 That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood and because those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus Allah coineth their similitudes for mankind.

022.078 And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the faith of your father Abraham (is yours). He hath named you Muslims of old time and in this (Scripture), that the messenger may be a witness against you, and that ye may be witnesses against mankind. So establish worship, pay the poor-due, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protecting friend. A blessed Patron and a blessed Helper!

There is ONLY ONE GOD, to whom belongs all Praise and Glory!

reply to post by amitheone


amitheone,

we follow the religion of Abraham, he was not of the idolaters. His God is God alone, he did not worship Jesus, broke all the image and idols that his folks are worshiping exactly like the Prophet Muhammad did.

002.132 The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).

002.133 Or were ye present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons: What will ye worship after me ? They said: We shall worship thy God, the God of thy fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, One God, and unto Him we have surrendered.

002.140 Or say ye that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians ? Say: Do ye know best, or doth Allah ? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony which he hath received from Allah ? Allah is not unaware of what ye do.

002.120 And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting guardian nor helper.

Don't delude yourself that you alone are the children of God, all men are servants of God, the Almighty.

021.026 And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He Glorified! Nay, but (those whom they call sons) are honoured slaves.

005.018 The Jews and Christians say: We are sons of Allah and His loved ones. Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins ? Nay, ye are but mortals of His creating. He forgiveth whom He will, and chastiseth whom He will. Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and unto Him is the journeying.

058.022 Thou wilt not find folk who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who oppose Allah and His messenger, even though they be their fathers or their sons or their brethren or their clan. As for such, He hath written faith upon their hearts and hath strengthened them with a Spirit from Him, and He will bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him. They are Allah's party. Lo! is it not Allah's party who are the successful?

062.006 Say (O Muhammad): O ye who are Jews! If ye claim that ye are favoured of Allah apart from (all) mankind, then long for death if ye are truthful.

The truth has come to you now, Jesus is an honoured messenger of God and so are all the Prophets. God has no partner is His sovereignty. Don't let Satan lead you astray, as he led our first parents to go astray and lose Paradise, their rightful home. The image of Jesus that you worship is the Devil, since it turned you away from the worship of the One True God.

036.060 Did I not charge you, O ye sons of Adam, that ye worship not the devil - Lo! he is your open foe! -

022.053 That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened - Lo! the evil-doers are in open schism -

004.087 Allah! There is no God save Him. He gathereth you all unto a Day of Resurrection whereof there is no doubt. Who is more true in statement than Allah ?

reply to post by heliosprime


follow your own advice heliosprime and you might find the mercy of God. Repentance is possible while you still have breath between your teeth.

you think you're on a mission here to save the world from Islam. you have nothing to worry there, i think. God guides to Islam whom He wills.

006.125 And whomsoever it is Allah's will to guide, He expandeth his bosom unto the Surrender, and whomsoever it is His Will to send astray, He maketh his bosom close and narrow as if he were engaged in sheer ascent. Thus Allah layeth ignominy upon those who believe not.

002.213 Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path.

003.020 And if they argue with thee, (O Muhammad), say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have ye (too) surrendered ? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message (unto them). Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen.

The Prophet Muhammad is the SEAL of the prophets, his appearance is the SIGN of the HOUR. His duty was only to deliver the message, and Muslims support him in his duty after his death, to share the teachings of Islam to mankind. If you will keep on slandering the Holy Prophet and God's religion, expect the true servants of God to come into his defense.

004.064 We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah's leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.

004.136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He revealed aforetime. Whoso disbelieveth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.

005.015 O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture,

005.019 O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you to make things plain unto you after an interval (of cessation) of the messengers, lest ye should say: There came not unto us a messenger of cheer nor any warner. Now hath a messenger of cheer and a warner come unto you. Allah is Able to do all things.

003.179 It is not (the purpose) of Allah to leave you in your present state till He shall separate the wicked from the good. And it is not (the purpose of) Allah to let you know the Unseen. But Allah chooseth of His messengers whom He will, (to receive knowledge thereof). So believe in Allah and His messengers. If ye believe and ward off (evil), yours will be a vast reward.

003.085 And whoso seeketh as religion other than the surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

final advice heliosprime, stop debarring man from the way of God, let go of this hate in your heart that you have unfairly conceived against Muslims, if still you will not desist, then ;

109.001 Say: O disbelievers!

109.002 I worship not that which ye worship;

109.003 Nor worship ye that which I worship.

109.004 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.

109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.006 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by amitheone

 

amitheone,

we follow the religion of Abraham, he was not of the idolaters. His God is God alone, he did not worship Jesus, broke all the image and idols that his folks are worshiping exactly like the Prophet Muhammad did.

The torah and the old testament of the bible has been around since about 3000-5000 B.C. and Islam is just a new religion founded just on the 6th Century A.D. However, the Koran is based on these two religions, copying their scriptures, but giving it a different story line, distorting the originals. The Koran has no originality at all to begin with. Its just an adulterated copy.

You still haven't answered my questions, I'll post it here again:

....

"God created us in His own image and likeness. Allah did not create Muslims after his own image and likeness. We call God, our Father. Muslims don't call Allah their father. God call us His children. Allah don't call Muslims his children.

If Allah did not create Muslims after his own image, then how does Allah look like? If Allah don't call Muslims his children, then what are you to him?"

....

With regards to idols, are you sure with the name "Allah"?

Kindly read these references:

"'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name ... corresponding to the Baylonian Bel "(The Encyclopedia of Religioned. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326).

"Allah is found ... in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643)

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called allah" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Houtsma, Arnold, Basset, Hartman; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1913, I:302)

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb, I:406)

"According to Middle East scholar E.M.Wherry, whose translation of the Koran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Baal, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabrück: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p.36)."

"In ancient Arabia, the sun-god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah (op.cit., Islam, p.7) "

"The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to the other titles that could be given to him.

"Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called 'the daughters of Allah'. These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.

"The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities" (Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion, Eugene, Oregon, Harvest House Publishers, 1977, pp.50-51).

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. (Wikepedia)

The name "Allah" was already in the middle east even before Islam was born on the 6th century! Allah was basically the moon god of ancient Arabia. This is plain idolatry! Aren't you wondering why all mosques have the crescent moon symbol? Don't you question this?

....


Now with regards to Bel, I'll cite the reference again:

"'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name ... corresponding to the Baylonian Bel "(The Encyclopedia of Religioned. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326).


The name "Bel" is also the name for "Allah". The Old Testament prophet Jeremiah writes this:

Jeremiah 50

1 This is the word the Lord spoke through Jeremiah the prophet concerning Babylon and the land of the Babylonians: 2 "Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say, 'Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame, Marduk filled with terror. Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror.'

Jeremiah 51

44 I will punish Bel in Babylon and make him spew out what he has swallowed. The nations will no longer stream to him. And the wall of Babylon will fall. 45 "Come out of her, my people! Run for your lives! Run from the fierce anger of the Lord.

....

The God of Abraham will surely punish "Allah" and will be put to shame according to the prophet Jeremiah.

reply to post by amitheone

Originally posted by amitheone
You still haven't answered my questions, I'll post it here again:

....

"God created us in His own image and likeness. Allah did not create Muslims after his own image and likeness. We call God, our Father. Muslims don't call Allah their father. God call us His children. Allah don't call Muslims his children.

If Allah did not create Muslims after his own image, then how does Allah look like? If Allah don't call Muslims his children, then what are you to him?"

Mind if I answer the question? God doesn't 'look' like anything. To ascribe a physical appearance to God would be idolatry. Do you think God is some bearded white haired man who sits in the clouds? What do you think it means in your Bible where it says God created man in His own image? That God has physical arms and legs and hair and genitalia? Or are the arms and legs 'spiritual' ? God is not a physical being. God is God. I am that I am. God can be called 'The Father' (and is, by some sects of Islam, as well as being called 'Mother', which I'd think would be even more descriptive), and we can be called his 'children', but this was avoided by Muhammad because of the problems it caused when Jesus did it. Some people take that stuff literally.

Originally posted by amitheone
With regards to idols, are you sure with the name "Allah"?

Kindly read these references:

Of course, Allah predates Muhammad! You think any muslim will disagree? Heck, it's used in the Bible too! Muhammad's mission with the arabs wasn't to teach about some new god, it was to stop the pagan arabs from ascribing partners to God- Allah, who was already the High God, or Sky God of the Arab Pantheon (not related to the moon in the slightest).

Originally posted by amitheone
The name "Allah" was already in the middle east even before Islam was born on the 6th century! Allah was basically the moon god of ancient Arabia. This is plain idolatry! Aren't you wondering why all mosques have the crescent moon symbol? Don't you question this?

I get so sad with this. My small glimmer of hope is that the ignorance is not wilful. This has been addressed zillions of times on these very forums. It is written in any reputable history (and I'm not talking about Robert Morey here ).

The crescent moon was a symbol that was used by the Byzantine Christians. It was taken from them by the Turks as their flag centuries after Muhammad died. It is in no way the official symbol of Islam. Islam doesn't have an official symbol (idolatry again).

Originally posted by amitheone
Now with regards to Bel, I'll cite the reference again:

"'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name ... corresponding to the Baylonian Bel "(The Encyclopedia of Religioned. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326).


The name "Bel" is also the name for "Allah". The Old Testament prophet Jeremiah writes this:

....

The God of Abraham will surely punish "Allah" and will be put to shame according to the prophet Jeremiah.

That is absolutely absurd. Baal is mentioned in the Quran as a false, imaginary god. He doesn't exist. You can't punish something that is imaginary. The Quran emphatically states that the moon, sun, stars and any celestial or earthly object has no power over man, and worship of it is forbidden.

I urge you to research properly. I can absolutely understand that you would want to reject Islam and all, but at least base your opinion on FACT, or just admit that it is just personal your belief.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by babloyi]

Mind if I answer the question? God doesn't 'look' like anything. To ascribe a physical appearance to God would be idolatry.

Wrong. Read Genesis. God created man after his own image, on the other hand, Allah did not create Muslims after his own image. I don't think you understand "idolatry". Idolatry is making an image of God out of your own imagination and making a statue or paintings of him to worship a "thing" rather than the creator. God wants us to worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Do you think God is some bearded white haired man who sits in the clouds?

You did not understand what I was conveying. We don't worship God in any images made by hands.

God is not a physical being. God is God.

Jesus was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh. Jesus was the Word who became flesh. Is this not having a "physical" nature? Jesus is God who became a man to save us from our sins.

Anyone who does not accept that Jesus Christ who is God who became flesh is an Anti-Christ.

I am that I am. God can be called 'The Father' (and is, by some sects of Islam, as well as being called 'Mother', which I'd think would be even more descriptive), and we can be called his 'children', but this was avoided by Muhammad because of the problems it caused when Jesus did it. Some people take that stuff literally.

You are making it in a figurative and vague sense. We call God our "Father" and He calls us His children. Very simple. Ask any Muslims whether they call Allah their father or whether Allah call them his children. The God of Adam, the God of Abraham, created man after His own "image". I don't read anywhere that "Allah" created Muslims after his own image.

We don't use unsure words like "can be" or we don't call God our "mother". Perhaps, for certain, as you said, Muslims called Allah their "mother".

Of course, Allah predates Muhammad! You think any muslim will disagree? Heck, it's used in the Bible too! Muhammad's mission with the arabs wasn't to teach about some new god, it was to stop the pagan arabs from ascribing partners to God- Allah, who was already the High God, or Sky God of the Arab Pantheon (not related to the moon in the slightest).

Not so. You are confusing the name "Allah" as God. Allah was the moon god. Cite references to point that Allah was never the name of a moon god. I don't see you quoting sources here. Please, kindly post it for my evaluation.

The crescent moon was a symbol that was used by the Byzantine Christians. It was taken from them by the Turks as their flag centuries after Muhammad died. It is in no way the official symbol of Islam. Islam doesn't have an official symbol (idolatry again).

Wrong again. I can show ancient artifacts of the crescent moon symbol way way back in Sumer. You say it was never an official symbol? So tell me, how come the pagan crescent moon symbol is on top of the mosque's minaret, as if "exalted"?

That is absolutely absurd. Baal is mentioned in the Quran as a false, imaginary god. He doesn't exist. You can't punish something that is imaginary.

Bel who is Allah is mentioned in the Bible. According to you, Allah is Baal and he does not exist and is imaginary.

The Quran emphatically states that the moon, sun, stars and any celestial or earthly object has no power over man, and worship of it is forbidden.

Worship of it is forbidden indeed. Care to tell me why the crescent symbol and not only that, the pagan "Pentagram" star of "Ishtar" is on top of the mosque's minaret? If its indeed not worshiped, why is it there? Why no efforts whatsoever to remove that abomination on the mosque's minaret, the place Muslims holds as sacred?

Should I post an image link here?

I urge you to research properly. I can absolutely understand that you would want to reject Islam and all, but at least base your opinion on FACT.

I only work on "physical" evidences. I can elaborate and expose more "physical" evidences. Remember, a claim can only be valid if its backed up by hard evidences.

Would you like to see all of them on my next post? Kindly wait for a week, as I will be having a short vacation tomorrow.

reply to post by amitheone


amitheone,

Allah is God's name which he revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, the promised prophet like unto Moses who will speak in God's name, Allah.

He is the Seal of the Prophets and the final mercy to mankind. Jesus himself described the Prophet Muhammad as the splendor of all the Prophets. If you want to know truly how God has made man in his image, give ear to the true teachings of Jesus which he has taught to his disciples and Children of Israel in his time.

Faith is a seal whereby God seals his elect: which seal he gave to his Messenger, at whose hands every one that is elect has received the faith. For even as God is one, so is the faith one. Wherefore God, having created before all things his Messenger, gave to him before aught else the faith which is as it were a likeness of God and of all that God has done and said. And so the faithful by faith sees all things, better than one sees with his eyes; because the eyes can err; no they do almost always err; but faith errs never, for it has for foundation God and his word. Believe me that by faith are saved all the elect of God. And it is certain that without faith it is impossible for any one to please God.

Wherefore Satan seeks not to bring to nothing fastings and prayer, alms and pilgrimages, no rather he incites unbelievers thereto, for he takes pleasure in seeing man work without receiving pay. But he takes pains with all diligence to bring faith to nought, wherefore faith ought especially to be guarded with diligence, and the safest course will be to abandon the "Wherefore," seeing that the "Wherefore" drove men out of Paradise and changed Satan from a most beautiful angel into a horrible devil."

Then said John: "Now, how shall we abandon the "Wherefore," seeing that it is the gate of knowledge?" Jesus answered: "No, rather the "Wherefore" is the gate of hell." Thereupon John kept silence, when Jesus added: "When you know that God has said a thing, who are you, O man, that you should say, "Wherefore have you so said, O God: wherefore have you so done?" Shall the earthen vessel, perhaps, say to its maker: "Wherefore have you made me to hold water and not to contain balsam?" Truly I say to you, it is necessary against every temptation to strengthen yourself with this word, saying "God has so said"; "So has God done"; "God so wills"; for so doing you shall live safely."

Truly I say to you that our God in creating man not only created him righteous, but inserted in his heart a light that should show to him that it is fitting to serve God. Wherefore, even if this light be darkened after sin, yet is it not extinguished. For every nation has this desire to serve God, though they have lost God and serve false and lying gods. Accordingly it is necessary that a man be taught of the prophets of God, for they clear the light and to teach the way to go to paradise, our country, by serving God well: just as it is necessary that he who has his eyes diseased should be guided and helped."

God created man in his image, his righteousness and innate goodness rather than physical image. The Muslims are the bearer of the faith of the Prophet Abraham and the people who have the most claim on him as stated by the Holy Qur'an.

003.068 Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.

002.130 And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself ? Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.

004.125 Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright ? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.

The Prophet Muhammad and all the Holy Prophets including Jesus worship the same God.

004.163 Lo! We inspire thee (Muhammad) as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms.

Baal is NOT Allah. Let me tell you the history of Baal according to Jesus.

Truly I say to you, that every evil has entered into the world under the pretext of the elders. Tell me, who made idolatry to enter into the world, if not the usage of the elders? For there was a king who exceedingly loved his father, whose name was Baal.

Whereupon, when the father was dead, his son for his own consolation, caused to be made an image like to his father, and set it up in the market-place of the city. And he made a decree that every one who approached that statue within a space of fifteen cubits should be safe, and on no account should any do him hurt. Hence the malefactors, by reason of the benefit they received therefrom, began to offer to the statue roses and flowers, and in a short time the offerings were changed into money and food, insomuch that they called it god, to honour it. Which thing from custom was transformed into a law, insomuch that the idol of Baal spread through all the world.

And how much does God lament this by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "Truly this people worships me in vain, for they have annulled my Law given to them by my servant Moses, and follow the traditions of their elders.
Truly I say to you, that to eat bread with unclean hands defiles not a man, because that which enters into the man defiles not the man, but that which comes out of the man defiles the man." Thereupon, said one of the scribes: "If I shall eat pork, or other unclean meats, will they not defile my conscience?" Jesus answered: "Disobedience will not enter into the man, but will come out of the man, from his heart; and therefore will he be defiled when he shall eat forbidden food."

Islam is the only purely monotheistic religion in the world today, where only God is worshiped and only His name is praised.

004.044 Seest thou not those unto whom a portion of the Scripture hath been given, how they purchase error, and seek to make you (Muslims) err from the right way ?

On the Day of Resurrection when all the hidden things will be made known:

004.042 On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the messenger will wish that they were level with the ground, and they can hide no fact from Allah.

Peace!

[edit on 22-7-2008 by queenofangels_17]

reply to post by queenofangels_17

"Jesus himself described the Prophet Muhammad as the splendor of all the Prophets."

Wow, how is this since muhammad lived 600 years after Jesus.........

If this isn't the "vision" of antichrist lies...........

the koran is such a fake................islam is such a lie,

for further proof see this thread..........

www.abovetopsecret.com...'


[edit on 22-7-2008 by heliosprime]

Originally posted by amitheone
I don't think you understand "idolatry". Idolatry is making an image of God out of your own imagination and making a statue or paintings of him to worship a "thing" rather than the creator. God wants us to worship Him in spirit and in truth.

But does he want us to worship him in 'image'? I think not. Any 'visual imagining' you can possibly have of God will be absolutely wrong, and if you worship that 'visual imagining', I'd call that idolatry.

Originally posted by amitheone

Do you think God is some bearded white haired man who sits in the clouds?

You did not understand what I was conveying. We don't worship God in any images made by hands.

That didn't really answer the question. If you think God has an image, please tell me what that image is. According to you, does God have genitals? And facial hair? And armpit hair?

Originally posted by amitheone
...the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh...

I don't know about Jesus being God (that opening a whole other can of worms), but God's Law (Word) did become 'flesh' (ie. physical). We see that in the beauty and structure of the universe even today.

Originally posted by amitheone
Anyone who does not accept that Jesus Christ who is God who became flesh is an Anti-Christ.

Nope. That is man's own (in this case your's) belief, and nothing to do with God (not even in the Bible), and those God sent. An Anti-Christ would be someone who comes in place of Christ (where 'Christ' means 'The Messiah'), and Muhammad completely rejects that role (Muslim's believe that Jesus was the Messiah).

Originally posted by amitheone
You are making it in a figurative and vague sense. We call God our "Father" and He calls us His children. Very simple. Ask any Muslims whether they call Allah their father or whether Allah call them his children. The God of Adam, the God of Abraham, created man after His own "image". I don't read anywhere that "Allah" created Muslims after his own image.

We don't use unsure words like "can be" or we don't call God our "mother". Perhaps, for certain, as you said, Muslims called Allah their "mother".

You don't use 'unsure words'? You think God can be perfectly and completely fitted into such a word as 'father'? I'd say that is denying the power of God. What do you call the man whose seed is part of you, then? Why do you think God said "I-am-that-I-am" when asked for His name? And 'Perhaps, for certain' doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by amitheone
Not so. You are confusing the name "Allah" as God. Allah was the moon god. Cite references to point that Allah was never the name of a moon god. I don't see you quoting sources here. Please, kindly post it for my evaluation.

What do you think 'Allah' means? It is exactly that: The God. Allah wasn't the moon god. The moon God (as worshipped by the pagan arabs was Hubal. Hubal is clearly distinguished from Allah in the Quran and Hadith, and worship of Hubal is deemed useless. I use common sense, but hey, here are some references too:
Battle of Uhud: Note the end, especially.

Originally posted by amitheone
Wrong again. I can show ancient artifacts of the crescent moon symbol way way back in Sumer. You say it was never an official symbol? So tell me, how come the pagan crescent moon symbol is on top of the mosque's minaret, as if "exalted"?

And I can show you the crescent moon symbol all the way back to the stone age. And it's up in the sky too. Since it's so high, we all must be worshipping it, no? I didn't say it was 'never an official symbol', I said 'it was in no way an official symbol'. Muhammad didn't sanction use of the Crescent moon (and star) as a logo. The Quran didn't. Early Islam didn't. It came with the Turks, who first used it as a secular symbol to denote their authority, and later on it became part of 'Islamic Architecture'. Doesn't make it right. The Cross is on top of almost all Churches I've seen. Does that mean Christian's worship it?

Originally posted by amitheone
Bel who is Allah is mentioned in the Bible. According to you, Allah is Baal and he does not exist and is imaginary.

'Bel who is Allah'? Where do you draw that connection? According to this book I have, the moon is cheese. Therefore it must be so. And since according to the FSM scripture cheesiness is next to godliness, we must go and stick a fork in the moon. 'Bel who is Allah' is your own belief, and not that of God (even in your Bible), sorry.

Originally posted by amitheone
Care to tell me why the crescent symbol and not only that, the pagan "Pentagram" star of "Ishtar" is on top of the mosque's minaret? If its indeed not worshiped, why is it there? Why no efforts whatsoever to remove that abomination on the mosque's minaret, the place Muslims holds as sacred?

You worship things that are high? Better knock down that lamppost, then. And that tall bookshelf with the magazines lying on top. And all those tall skyscrapers. And aeroplanes too. Just because some mosques have a crescent moon and star on top doesn't mean it is worshipped. Ever seen a muslim pray to the moon? I haven't either. And architecture is architecture. Are you saying that Christians worship rectangles because so many churches are made out of bricks? And where did you get this absurd gem of an idea that muslim's hold the mosque's minaret sacred?

Originally posted by amitheone
I only work on "physical" evidences. I can elaborate and expose more "physical" evidences. Remember, a claim can only be valid if its backed up by hard evidences.

To say that Allah is anything other than "The God" is pretty much ignoring 'physical evidences'. The most physical evidence would be אֱלָהָא (or ˀĔlāhā) from Biblical Aramaic. You do know where Jesus came from, right? Languages are pretty consistent. Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic. 'Jesus' wasn't an englishman. If anything, Jesus is definitely not God's name (or even the name of the guy who grew up in Nazereth around 0AD), and Jehovah is definietly not God's name either. What Jesus called 'God' probably was more similar to what the Muslims call him than most (non-arab) christians today.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by babloyi]

reply to queenofangels_17:


Here is a verse in the quran where it states
the torah and gospels are guidance and a light
to ward of evil and anyone not following them is evil.

In Sura 5:50-51 (46-47) Allah says, "And We caused Jesus, son of Mary,
to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was
revealed before him and We bestowed on him the Gospel
wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which
was (revealed) before it in the Torah -- a guidance and
an admonition unto those who ward off evil. Let the
People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath
revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which
Allah hath revealed, such are evil-livers."

The quran, written after the gospels, is telling people
to believe in the gospels.

can you show me verses in the quran where it
calls the bible contaminated?

where in my post did I claim the torah was a hoax, its the
quran I claim is a hoax.

Jesus had no crime, the world did.

Jesus fulfulled many prophecies from the 1st testament, about
the crucifiction and dying for our sins:

psalm 22 -the crucifiction.
16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me:
they pierced my hands and my feet.
18They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Isaiah 53:6 -dying for the worlds sins.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation?
for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my
people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death;
because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.


the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus is the God of the Bible, the
creator of all, truthful, never deceiving.

reply to post by babloyi

Nope. That is man's own (in this case your's) belief, and nothing to do with God (not even in the Bible), and those God sent. An Anti-Christ would be someone who comes in place of Christ (where 'Christ' means 'The Messiah'), and Muhammad completely rejects that role (Muslim's believe that Jesus was the Messiah).

This is an outright LIE.....................please post verses from the koran to back this up!

Jesus — The Koran denies point blank that Jesus was the Son of God (Sura 112:2-3). It also denies His atoning sacrifice by claiming that he never died (Sura 4:157). A substitute died for Him on the Cross. Jesus was translated to Heaven, like Enoch, where He will remain until He returns to kill all pigs, destroy all crosses, and convert the world to Islam. Jesus will marry, reign for 40 years and then die and be buried next to Muhammad in Medina.8 Jesus is characterized in the Koran as nothing more than “an apostle of Allah” (Sura 4:171).
Source: The Truth About Islam Dr. David R. Reagan

www.apologeticsindex.org...

reply to post by heliosprime

I am sorry, where did 'Son of God' come in? I said "Muslim's believe Jesus was the Messiah". If you take the old testament meaning (and Jesus's own interpretations) of the term "Son of God", I suppose he was a Son of God (along with many others).

Jesus is called 'al-massih' (the messiah) throughout the Quran. He was prophesied in the Old Testament, and came to fulfil those prophecies. He's the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed one, etc. Not God.

Jesus is the son of God. Jesus ask one of the disciples who he was and they said your are the son of God. Jesus is not God but Jesus is the perfect manifestion of God. Jesus said that God was greater than him. Jesus said that God sent him and that he was their to do God's will. Jesus talk to God and prayed to God. when Jesus was baptised God's spirit came to jesus. If Jesus was God he would not need God's spirit. Jesus is the messiah


[edit on 23-7-2008 by slymattb]

reply to post by babloyi


Errr......typical double-speak...........

ok...God is God.

Jesus his son. Jesus the messiah......the saviour..and defender of mankind before God.

muhammad......a liar and murderer.....deciever of mankind........a (the) false prophet...........allah is satan....

Ok got it?????????????????

reply to post by heliosprime

*Babloyi shrugs*

That is your belief system, and there is nothing wrong with you having it. However, while you discuss it, you must be prepared for someone to question it, and point out the flaws (while using your own supposed basis for your belief- your bible). To call what I am saying 'double-speak' is just dodging the issue.

Basic refutation of Islam is the Anti-Christ:
Definition of Christ: The Messiah, The Anointed One, prophesied in the OT.
Definition of Anti-Christ: Person who comes in place of Christ, claims to be Christ, etc.
Position of Islam on Jesus: He is the prophesied Messiah, and no one else is.

Therefore Islam is not the Anti-Christ.


Refutation of 'Islam is the Anti-Christ' as outlined by the OP:
Definition of Anti-Christ as shown in 2nd John 7: Who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
Position of Islam on Jesus: He is the Christ, the Messiah, and he came in the flesh.

Therefore Islam is not the Anti-Christ.


Refutation of 'Islam is the Anti-Christ' where Jesus is assumed to be God:
Problems with this assumption:

1. Definition of Anti-Christ in 2nd John does not mention any parameters about believing Jesus was God
   
2. This assumption uses two separate books where the it is disputed that the author was the same
   
3. Not all Christians believe Jesus is God
   
4. The Bible is not clear on this issue (eg. Jesus said he was less than The Father (thus less than God); How can something less than God (and created by God) be with God in the beginning, etc.)
   
5. Non-christians may attack the authenticity of the Bible
   

Therefore refutation of (and allegation that) 'Islam is the Anti-Christ' is inconclusive.


Refutation of 'Islam is the Anti-Christ' where the statement is based on 'feeling':
Problems with this assumption: Can be opposed based on feeling also, and not based on any evidence.

Therefore refutation of (and allegation that) 'Islam is the Anti-Christ' is inconclusive.


What is your criticism of this argument (aside from calling it 'double-speak' and dodging the issue)?

[edit on 24-7-2008 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by heliosprime

 

*Babloyi shrugs*

What is your criticism of this argument (aside from calling it 'double-speak' and dodging the issue)?

[edit on 24-7-2008 by babloyi]

Jesus is the SON of God. You call him "messiah" but NOT the son of YHVH. YHVH and allah are not the same. Again Islam does not aknowledge that Jesus is the SON of God. Not "God" the son of God.

Jesus sits at the right hand of God the father.

allah had no son per the koran itself. As usual as a follower and defender of Islam you "color" you answers to appear as though you have explained all, yet, you slide past the actual issue............

004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
PICKTHAL: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
SHAKIR: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

www.usc.edu...

reply to post by heliosprime

Originally posted by heliosprime
As usual as a follower and defender of Islam you "color" you answers to appear as though you have explained all, yet, you slide past the actual issue............

Yeah, I know, we're all the same, aren't we? Secretly lying and conniving and telling facts instead of what you actually want to hear?

I don't understand why you keep quoting that passage. It makes no reference to Jesus not being (or being) God's son. I don't think anyone who knows even a little bit about Islam would dispute the fact that according to Islam Jesus was not crucified. I'm certainly not hiding it.

And yes, the Quran does not acknowledge that Jesus was 'the only begotten son of God'. Of course, neither does the Bible acknowledge that. David was apparently also a begotten son of God. Israel was a son of God. Jesus himself said that all who work for God can be called gods. Yes, you keep repeating that YHVH is not Allah, but when your 'facts' (all those links and quotes you keep posting) are challenged, you don't respond.

What is the 'actual issue' that I am sliding past? The crucifixion of Jesus? His Godhood? His Son of Godness? Or that fact that you seem to have an irrational hatred of Islam? Because I've addressed all of those issues.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi

What is the 'actual issue' that I am sliding past? The crucifixion of Jesus? His Godhood? His Son of Godness? Or that fact that you seem to have an irrational hatred of Islam? Because I've addressed all of those issues.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by babloyi]

The actual issue is the fact that you do not actually answer the central question. So hear it is again.

Jesus is the SON of God (YHVH) who (Jesus) was born flesh, was crucified (and died), buried, then arose from the grave 3 days later. Then acended to his father in heaven.

My rational "hate" (your words not mine) for islam is based on the fact that everything about islam is fake, a lie, and is misleading billions down a path to destruction. That there is nothing good whatsoever about islam. It promotes a false god (allah), a false prophet (muhammad), and uses complete lies concerning Jesus to "soften" its vile message.............

How about the FACT that those who leave islam are to be killed.........or those who do not accept islam "are to be killed"................

reply to post by heliosprime



I'd like to point out, you still haven't asked a question. Just used your platform to bash Islam again. Which is totally your right...it just means that this isn't really a debate or discussion, then.

PS: Your last two facts are false.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by heliosprime

 

I'd like to point out, you still haven't asked a question. Just used your platform to bash Islam again. Which is totally your right...it just means that this isn't really a debate or discussion, then.

PS: Your last two facts are false.

Exhibit A: Abdul Rahman -- after his arrest for converting to Christianity, one senior Afghan cleric said he should be torn to pieces for his conversion. In light of that rage, what does the Koran say about it?
Several verses in the Koran severely condemn apostasy but fall short of calling for the death penalty.
But in the Hadith, Islam's other holy book, Mohammed said those who leave Islam should be killed. Mohammed's direct successors--the Caliphs--also said apostates should receive death.

www.cbn.com...

Try this oh he who is made of "teflon" he who ducks all.................

[edit on 25-7-2008 by heliosprime]