Cleveland Smoking Gun Proves “Arab Hijacker” Calls From United Airlines Flight 93 Were Faked

After all this time and all these discussions, I have come to the conclusion that those who think it was an inside job will never be convinced otherwise and those who believe the "official story" will never have their minds changed.
I personally believe that there were several things that don't add up about the official story. We have been lied to to some extent. You as an individual need to ask the question, if it could be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that 911 was an inside job, would life in America be better or worse? I fear there would be roits, mass panic, and a deeper financial crisis than we are in already.
History proves that if this was a conspiracy, you will not hear the real story for at least 40 years. (USS Liberty) Is our government capable of telling such lies, abso-frickin-loutely. I can't fathom that the underlieing reason for this atrocity is greed for money or power. There has to be some other reason that is bigger than we are alowed to know. Just like there must be a bigger reason we invaded Iraq than the false WMD claim, which I still believe they were there, just moved around to hide them.
So in my humble opinion, arguing about this topic is futile. Nothing good can come from it. GWB and the Puppet master will be gone soon enough and the folks that really run things will still be where they are. If our leaders can see fit to pull out of Iraq ASAP and cut back in Afganistan, and refrain from pissing all over Iran, then we might be able to avoid the almost inevitable coming depression. If not, as they say grab your ankles and kiss it goodbye.

the preceding message has been brought to you by a concerned American citizen.

reply to post by network dude


There are still some that are "on the fence", or "newbies." These folks should be shown both sides of the table here.

reply to post by IvanZana


Would all readers of this thread please note two things...on page two, the OP IvanZana mentions me, weedwhacker....yet I DID NOT POST anything on this thread, until just now!!

Secondly, it is quite obvious by the manner of the narrative in the IvanZana's first two posts that those are not his own words. BUT, unless I missed it, I did not see his references. Ivan certainly does not know enough about aviation to be able to write like that....I claim he lifted it from somewhere. Just compare his manner of speaking on this, or other threads.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weed,

he did take this from another website. He did reference it but did not note that it was from an external source.

It was also pointed out to him the the OP has errors in it. He has yet to respond.

A question for dgtempe:

You claim there is all this evidence and that 9/11 happened the way it was explained by the Government

If we have all this other evidence - why don't we have the simple flight log for any of the airlines showing the names of the hijackers on a flight list. Can you post a link to the actual flight list for all three planes that shows these so-called hijackers were on the plane?

Also, we are still waiting for one "clear" photo of a plane hitting the Pentagon. The most secure building in the United States. This building has more cameras aimed at it than any other building in America, perhaps the World. Yet all we have is some crappy frames from a guard shack at a weird angle. They went out of their way to collect the video tapes from the bank and quicky mart across the street but we have never seen that footage.

No one ever seems to discuss these very important points. So here, we have all this convenient evidence that supports the Government story, but we have none of the evidence that really matters or answers to the endless questions that were not addressed by the bought and paid for White House selected 9/11 investigation commission.

And no one can explain how building seven collapsed without having been hit by any plane. But there is plenty of video footage from that day with rescue workers saying things like, "they are going to pull the building" or "we heard explosions go off, boom boom boom".

The real facts and questions by American people and the victims families are never addressed, only the same repeated statements and manufactured facts for the Government version are ever entertained.

Hey folks, I am the anonymous poster from the discussion concerning “Debunking 9/11,” the one who suggested that the website in question was well put together and made a stronger, more reasonable argument than most Truther sources. I am not a ‘disinformation agent’ (although that would be a cool job that probably paid well), just a normal citizen who questions reality. I thought this was a good time to chime in again. The author of THIS discussion’s original post states that “photographs of this authentic slightly-singed “miracle” passport were later published on the FBI web site. New York Fire Department records show that not a single scrap of paper from American Flight 77 or United 175 survived the impacts on the twin towers, so in turn we know with 100% certainty that Atta’s passport was handed to the FBI as a deliberate ploy, perhaps by the same person who earlier murdered Mohammed Atta in order to obtain it.”

This is just one detail of the intellectual problem facing Truthers, insofar as so often there are logical leaps made that are simply unwarranted. There is NO 100% certainty in their statement, and in fact you would have to be a religious believer to really buy into this idea 100%. I can think of any number of reasons why.

1. The Challenger explosion: although NASA has never officially stated just how long, despite the ENORMOUS explosion of that craft, the cockpit actually survived, as well as the pilots. Looking at the video on television, it would appear that there would be nothing left but teeny tiny little scraps of that thing, but in fact, a huge portion was flying through the air with living people in it.

2. Is it not possible that since Atta was in the front of the craft, and his passport was in his pocket, that much of what was in the front of that plane could have been ejected from the explosions shooting debris and whatnot from the building’s exit wound? Perhaps Atta’s body parts were flying through the air, and his panted leg just happened to be burning until it fell through the air, extinguishing the flame, and his semi-singed passport fell to the ground and was found? Doesn’t that sound a bit more likely than the man who murdered him (when?) producing a copy of his passport and then handing it over to the FBI? I mean, that is the very definition of a schizoid-sounding paranoid delusion. Just sayin’.

So many times Truthers say something “just can’t/doesn’t happen,” when in fact there’s not a single event in the whole 9/11 event timeline that can’t be reasonably approached by ANY NUMBER of viewpoints or scenarios.

Reading across the forums, and knowing folks who believe as many of you do, it seems apparent to me that 9/11 Truth is a much more akin to a religious belief structure than a mere conspiracy theory. I have had people accuse me of suffering from 'cognitive dissonance' because I don't believe what they believe, given the information that we share. The thing is that 9/11 Truth 'information' is usually just so much speculation and unprovable assertions, or information that turns out to be misrepresented (e.g. the non-existent "stand down" orders).

I have yet to see anyone answer the debunker's questions about the number of people involved in this whole thing. I mean, it really does seem like it would have to be hundreds, if not literally thousands. I've seen it countered that "oh, well, these things are done on a cell basis, and you'd never know what you were involved with." Don't you think that anyone could see after the fact? Where are the explosives guys, the people who faked phone calls and radio transmissions, who set up false identities, who knew the hijackers in their military training, the lawyers who had to knowingly obfuscate information, the administrators and lackeys, the intelligence folks stopped Bin Laden investigations? Tell me!

It is a known fact that Atta and Ziad Jarrah stated...

"we have some bombs" and it was heard by air controllers. If you have not, please take the time to read the 9/11 Commission. After that, go to prisonplanet.com and read the other side. once that is done, make up your own mind but remember,

There is still no NWO, There is stil no martial law and the US government did not gain anything from the 9/11 attacks. Senator Liberman recently made a good point that the first WTC came in the first year of Clintons presidency and 9/11 was in the first year of Bush's. It is a test of the resolve of the president.

There has never, ever been a solid piece of evidence that supports explosives at the WTC or missles at the Pentagon.

This is not a smoking gun but more of another attempt to try to keep the public from looking into Flight 93, that was shot down. It is the same old look over here not there trick that governments and circus perfprmers have used for years.


This explains it all folks....

link to article




[edit on 3-7-2008 by esdad71]

"why don't we have the simple flight log for any of the airlines showing the names of the hijackers on a flight list."

I am not going to go searching around the internet (so much unreliable, unsourced information; I'm a librarian) for such information, but my memory of the event is such that names of many of the suspected hijackers were released very soon after the event (that day?), based entirely on the passenger manifests. Those are probably not public records, but believe you me, I'm sure each and every one of those bits of data is recorded and stored in perpetuity.

"Also, we are still waiting for one "clear" photo of a plane hitting the Pentagon. The most secure building in the United States."

Perhaps the Pentagon doesn't want the photos or videos released precisely because this is supposed to be the "most secure building around. I mean, it obviously wasn't, and I don't know how one can claim that. Prior to that day, I'd mistakenly driven on the Pentagon's grounds TWICE without any attention being paid to me. Try doing that at Ft. Meade. Anyway, from the Pentagon's perspective, just showing that video, and showing how vulnerable that building is, might be considered a direct threat to the physical security of the building. You'd best believe nefarious that folks would study the footage for technical insights.

Further, it could be considered quite heinous and offensive to the memory of the folks who lost their lives there that day. The twin towers' (at least one) attack and destruction was filmed on live television, and we all sat there rivited. The Pentagon attack was entirely different. The eyes of the world weren't already on it. The ONLY reason I can think of to release this footage, especially the more graphic stuff, is to satisfy 9/11 Truthers and folks who dig sites like the late, great Ogrish. Virtually no one else cares to see such awful stuff.

Since we're on the subject, can anyone explain to me why this grand conspiracy would have seen it fit to use a cruise missile at the Pentagon, versus a plane filled with people, a la the other attacks?

reply to post by mahajohn


Don't forget the reporter who said building 7 collapsed before it actually did. Like reporters don't make mistakes, and don't try to beat all the other reporters to the story. That reporter herself says "details are sketchy". And if it was a conspiracy, why the hell would you tell a reporter that building 7 was going to collapse. If you are involved in planning a conspiracy, you tell as little people as possible to get the job done. Why would you tell a reporter from the BBC that the building was going to collapse. Why not just let it collapse and let them report the news. With the amount of people that would have to be involved in this (have to be in the thousands) there is no way there would not be a leak. Also, to think the Bush administration could plan something like this in less than 9 months in office is also rediculous. BTW, you keep asking why don't they investigate this or that. Well I am assuming investigating something like this would cost millions and millions of dollars. No let me ask you. If you knew what happened, you have seen all the photos and proof, and you have no doubt what was behind it, would you spend millions of dollars to investigate something when you already knew what really happened. Hell they had the 09/11 commision. Now you want another investigation into that investigation. It would never end. That is unless they came back and said it was a conspiracy.

reply to post by esdad71


thanks, esdad71 for mentioning the recordings of 'we have a bomb' and various other utterances that were recorded on ATC tapes.

As a pilot, I have to explain to all the non-pilots. When sitting in the cockpit seat, there is a hand microphone hanging just under the side window, to the Captain's left, and the First Officer's right. On some Boeings the mic for the PA looks just like those mics. On the B757/767 the PA is activated, from the cockpit two ways: The telephone-like handset on the center console (looks just like the ones the Flight Attendants use, if you notice next time you fly) or, through those other mics, or the headset, by selecting 'PA' on the Audio Selector Panel, down on the center console.

Atta probably did not realize that the microphone he picked up, thinking it was the PA, was actually selected to transmit on the current ATC frequency.

Originally posted by mahajohn
"why don't we have the simple flight log for any of the airlines showing the names of the hijackers on a flight list."

I am not going to go searching around the internet (so much unreliable, unsourced information; I'm a librarian) for such information, but my memory of the event is such that names of many of the suspected hijackers were released very soon after the event (that day?), based entirely on the passenger manifests. Those are probably not public records, but believe you me, I'm sure each and every one of those bits of data is recorded and stored in perpetuity.

"Also, we are still waiting for one "clear" photo of a plane hitting the Pentagon. The most secure building in the United States."

Perhaps the Pentagon doesn't want the photos or videos released precisely because this is supposed to be the "most secure building around. I mean, it obviously wasn't, and I don't know how one can claim that. Prior to that day, I'd mistakenly driven on the Pentagon's grounds TWICE without any attention being paid to me. Try doing that at Ft. Meade. Anyway, from the Pentagon's perspective, just showing that video, and showing how vulnerable that building is, might be considered a direct threat to the physical security of the building. You'd best believe nefarious that folks would study the footage for technical insights.

Further, it could be considered quite heinous and offensive to the memory of the folks who lost their lives there that day. The twin towers' (at least one) attack and destruction was filmed on live television, and we all sat there rivited. The Pentagon attack was entirely different. The eyes of the world weren't already on it. The ONLY reason I can think of to release this footage, especially the more graphic stuff, is to satisfy 9/11 Truthers and folks who dig sites like the late, great Ogrish. Virtually no one else cares to see such awful stuff.

Since we're on the subject, can anyone explain to me why this grand conspiracy would have seen it fit to use a cruise missile at the Pentagon, versus a plane filled with people, a la the other attacks?

pentagon flight pictures www.oilempire.us...
and wtc7 collapse www.debunking911.com... that like explains how it collapsed, and shows the whole video of the collapse. Not just the last 5 or 6 seconds. Why do all the conspiracy videos cut out the first 3 or 4 seconds of the collapse. If you watch the video close to the bottom you can see that the top penthouse collapses first (when the first support beam gives) and collapses into the building, then there is a pause of about 3 seconds and the rest of the building collapses. If it was demoed, the whole building would collapse at once.

Atta was found on security tapes weeks later.

However all hijacker photo ids were up on the front page within days.

Truther websites has stated many were US government agents and
still alive.

Back on topic to flight 93. The recordings may be faked, I'm not sure. But if they are real they don't make much sense, either. They say the hijackers were really trying to talk to the passengers but mistakenly broadcast to ATC. This doesn't make sense as there is evidence that says the hijackers told the passengers of their plans to crash the plane.

Tom Burnett says on two separate phone calls "They're talking about crashing this plane" and "They're talking about crashing this plane into the ground." Source: findarticles.com...

This was reported to the FBI by his wife Deena. "Thomas Burnett mentioned during this conversation that the hijackers were talking about flying the plane into the ground, location not specified." Source: intelfiles.egoplex.com...

And for confirmation, the Glick family reported to the FBI that Jeremy was told they were going to crash. "Jeremy advised .... that the hijackers had herded the passengers into the rear of the plane and told them that if they did not crash into the World Trade Center, that they were going to blow-up the plane." Source: intelfiles.egoplex.com...

If you compare the times of the ATC recordings and the times of Burnett's calls, the passengers were told they were going to crash while at the same time Jarrah was supposedly trying to tell them they were "going back to the airport."

Does this make any sense? If the ATC tapes are real, were they really directed to the ground rather than to the passengers? Or were they faked and whoever came up with this didn't get their storylines correct?

If you take the pieces you beleive, and do not do all the research, you can come up with anything.

It was explained that instead of hitting the inflight cabin the pilot hit the open air and the controllers overheard the pilot talking to the passengers.

The family of the Flight 93 victims were also allowed to hear the final moments of the lives of their families. Was this faked?

There was landing gear and numerous personal articles found blocks away from the WTC including body parts that are still being found.

There was debris scattered over miles before the crash site of 93.

A VP at CNN watched the plane hit the Pentagon from his car on the highwayand explained it later that day. Amazing how that interview is never mentioned. THere are NUMEROUS witnesses.

9/11 was a tradgedy that we are Americans can hope to never have to face again. If we came together as a country today as we did in the weeks following, we could change our country and not be slaves to the man. Think about it.

Tom Burnett says on two separate phone calls "They're talking about crashing this plane" and "They're talking about crashing this plane into the ground." Source: findarticles.com...

This was reported to the FBI by his wife Deena. "Thomas Burnett mentioned during this conversation that the hijackers were talking about flying the plane into the ground, location not specified." Source: intelfiles.egoplex.com...

In response to this, he is talking about the passengers. They all knew what was going on and decided that if nothing else that they would take down the plane so 1000's would not be killed. This is the perfect example of something taken out of context and made to look another way to fit a conspiracy theory....

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Atta was found on security tapes weeks later.

However all hijacker photo ids were up on the front page within days.

Truther websites has stated many were US government agents and
still alive.

The highjackers could have been using alias and not their real names. After all it has been proven that the highjackers had used 364 alias and different names. So that and the fact that they could not identify all the bodies pretty much closes the terrorists are still alive. That is probably why some of the names are still on the No Fly List.

reply to post by esdad71

esdad, I'm not sure if this was in response to my post but I and do all the research. I am taking what was reported to have taken place along with the ATC tapes and putting them into a timeline the stays consistent. The "explanation" they gave may be wrong, and I gave you documented proof that it most likely is.

reply to post by esdad71

Did you read the FBI report? ""Thomas Burnett mentioned during this conversation that the hijackers were talking about flying the plane into the ground, location not specified." And yes, the passengers knew what was going to happen, as per Jeremy's call "that if they did not crash into the World Trade Center, that they were going to blow-up the plane."

Please do some more research and find out what was reported to have taken place on those calls. Don't just "take the pieces you beleive (sic)"

For the OP, IvanZana. Pleas go to YouTube and see this video:

watch?v=NjaN8NqN8CE (I do not know how to link it, I usually 'embed' it, and that's a no-no)

Also, try l2FB2Y1BQs0

Thanks

DNA From Flight 11 Passengers:




By April 30 2004, 52 of those aboard Flight 11 were identified, 45 by DNA. 26 of those on Flight 175 were identified, 26 by DNA.

-Who They Were: Robert C. Shaler

Thats amazing, because in 2002 the government released a paper claiming they had identified ALL of the passengers of all 4 flights using DNA. Amazingly, the website housing the documentation has been taken down. There were many threads about it hre on ATS 911 forums. If anyone has a copy of the paper(s) please contact me.