Millions of people disappear every year

Reading these posts have reminded me of a few cases where people have disappeared without trace or a reason, and it strange circumstances.

Ghost Yacht – This one is a yacht that was found floating off the Great Barrier Reef last year, none of the crew where ever found, yet the sails where up, engines running and food laid out on the table.

Ghost Yacht


There is also one I have seen (trying to find it) where the whole population of a tiny island just disappeared, food was found on the tables and fires lit, it was all very strange. There are also several mysteries about boats that have been found with all the crew gone, but nothing disturbed. What about the whole Mayan Civilisation?

Mikey

Some of the Vanishing stories require comments:

1.) Roanoke: My brother, an Anthropologist/Archeologist, says that the Roanoke colonists, lower social class English peasnts, moved in with the local Indians and intermaried. The life was better, easier and they had no problems with orders from London Bankers. Why be English?

2.) In the Alaskan bush "Gone Missing" is a way of saying "He did not return from his last trip into the bush. He died of accident or sudden illness. In two years or so the mice will have eaten everything of his body and kit but the metal."

3.) The Manila to Mexico City story: Check to see if a Spanish Govonor was killed at about that date. If he was the story MIGHT be true, if not its false. (I once reas an article in "Atlantic Monthly" (?) where the author remembered Robert Anson Heinlien's classic short story "And He Built A Crooked House" as a fact article. The Manila to Mexico City story could be the same deal.)

4.) The German prisoner that faded away reminds me of something that Tom Brown jr (The South New Jersey tracker) claims to be able to do in his book "The Vision". I asked Corwin "Cork" Holmes of Milwaukee, WI, who studied under Tom Brown if he had ever seen the trick. Corwin said he had, Tom just faded out and faded back in.

5.) Have you ever looked for shed deer antlers? They are hard to find and generally chewed up by the mice in less than a year so you can understand how quickly a body breaks down in the wilderness, or even an unvisited back pasture.

6.) Third World Serial Killers (Mexican Border etc.) have an advantage, cops are poorly trained, poorly paid and poorly motivated-a killer's delight.
One town's police may not talk to the next town. In one case in the Philipines, an unidentified dead man was cataloged by the police as German, the locals said that he was an American. (He was an American killed by a Philipino con man. Case pending.)

I thought the # in the US was somewhere around 500,000 per year, not 10 million. But even at 500,000 over 20 years that's 10 million people and there aren't 10 million people roaming the cities or country sides. That's 500,000, by the way, that can't be correlated to any known reason for disappearing. There are only 2 reasons that come to mind. "Clandestine Operations" like alternative 3 kind of stuff when a labor force is need and food for other life forms (and some humans). 500,000 in the US alone, what is the # world wide?

great thread. very thought provoking. this reminds me of a guy from my favorite band, the Manic Street Preachers who went missing. He disappeared on purpose, but he has never been found dead or alive and its been 13 years. And he is a pretty high profile guy at least in the UK.

also I wonder, if you do enter a timeslip, would one end up in a world where there is another of "me"? or where I was never born? I mean I'd be knocking at relatives doors spouting family history trying to get them to belive me. scary stuff.

reply to post by Totalstranger

I believe you. But where did he go? This is troubling.

also I wonder, if you do enter a timeslip, would one end up in a world where there is another of "me"? or where I was never born? I mean I'd be knocking at relatives doors spouting family history trying to get them to belive me. scary stuff.

"Time slips", at least as I conceive of them, are actually just what the word implies: sudden "slips" in your time/space displacement. Your time/space continuum is not permanently affected.

And then, according to physics derived from Everett's theories, there already are a number of YOU treading the Earth(s)... The weight of your consciousness is what determines the one where you live. And consciousness doesn't seem to handle well more than one time-line - two, tops - at a time.

Hi Guys,

Some additional information and statistics from the UK.


In Summary:

No overall estimate for the UK as a whole due to no unified reporting / collating system.

In 1999 a Newiss study placed across 3 police forces the average number of official reports filed was 3.6 per 1000 head of population with a resultant estimate of 218,113 for the UK's population of 60.58 Million in 2006.

Average estimate per year should correspondingly fall within the range of 210,000 - 230,000.

For greater London the reports were 27,570 in the year 1999-2000 and 22,000 in 2006-2007.

One kid is supposed to be reported missing every 5 minutes.

Under 18's account for 2/3 of reports, (140,000 to 153,000 per annum) 71% of which were female.

99% of all reports are solved within 1 year leaving 2100 to 2300 unsolved up unto that period.


For a full write up check here: Whats the scale of the issue

Overall its an excellent website on the Missing persons situation in the UK.


Thought not related to the statistics.

For the sudden disappearance phemonena, I will freely admit that this one has interested me for a long time, however i sincerely hope the 'disappearing into what you dream' aspect is unfounded since i cannot ever remember dreaming about any place I would want to visit voluntarily... and since i can easily remember most of what i dream that's not a good sign.

Absence.

The numbers on here are staggering.

I, personally, have only heard of a couple of people in the area who have just "gone missing" and nothing of them ever heard from again.

One case is from last year where a guy walked out of a bar around 2 am, I think was the time. He wasn't seen again. Strange, though he's probably dead, you know? They will probably find the body some time in a lake or shallow grave, something like that.

The other is of a little girl who was walking home from the bus stop and wasn't seen again. This was several years ago. They found her backpack near the bus stop last year, and this was YEARS later. Very strange.

I cannot presume to know what happened to these 2 cases that I know about.

If the large numbers are true, wouldn't I know of someone like this, personally? Seriously, think about it. We are all connected in some way, and I know lots of people. Why is it that no one I know is "gone" like you're stating in this thread?

I don't believe the numbers are accurate at all. Lots of people reported missing are not missing at all and the numbers don't reflect this.

Take into account the following true story, if you will.

The details are fuzzy for various reasons as you will see.

My grandfather went to war. My grandmother saw him off on a battle ship in Savannah, Georgia. She recalls vividly the events of that day. The couple had two small children and it was a very sad event, as going to war usually is.

My grandmother was informed later that year that her husband was missing. The navy had no information to give to her except that he was gone. She never heard from him again. I mean never. After 7 years he was presumed dead and she remarried. She had 2 other children by 2 other husbands.

My mother died about 25 years after her father was declared dead. I was 3 years old at the time. When I was 20 years old my aunt called me and informed me that my grandfather who was declared dead had actually been living the entire time. He had just died and because she was the only living child of his she was notified by registered mail that she was in charge of his estate.

This was quite shocking to the entire family - especially my grandmother (a very elderly woman by this time) who thought this entire time that her 1st husband had been killed in the war.

So you see, it is entirely possible to go missing on purpose. He didn't even go very far from home either - just over in the next county. The navy never got him. His wife and family never saw him. Just seemed to vanish - until he actually died.

reply to post by Vanitas


Since you´re into time-slips and parallel universes and all, I´ll share a private theory with you:

In lucid dreams we travel to many "variation-spaces" where all types of realities play out. Only few of them are actually manifest somewhere in the universe. If we happen to enter a physically manifest one during our lucid dream, we disappear from here.

OK, now Ive lost all scientific credibility, but what the heck

To ALL posters on this page: This page contains some of the best reading on vanishings Ive ever read. Thanks

reply to post by DaddyBare

In January, a prominent human rights lawyer, Sergio Dante Almaraz, was shot to death in broad daylight in downtown Juarez. Dante had defended two bus drivers who claimed they were tortured into confessing to the murders of the eight women found in the cotton field, which today is marked by eight pink crosses bearing the names of those found there. The attorney's murder remains unsolved.

is there anything paranormal about a hitman shooting in broad daylight or about two people who've alledgedly been tortured into confession? sure, the local PD might just be trying to silence critics in an attempt to conceal their ineptitude, but i wouldn't count on that.

Very good thread Sky!

There are alot of people who disapear, some are as you say, because of crime related, some are because of psychological problems.

But that is only a small fraction of those who disapear, it is quite intruiging.

I made a similar thread about this here, with a more correlation to the abduction scenarios : The Abduction Phenomenon

But much of what we are doing is only guesswork... but still interesting

S&F

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Vanitas

 

Since you´re into time-slips and parallel universes and all, I´ll share a private theory with you:

In lucid dreams we travel to many "variation-spaces" where all types of realities play out. Only few of them are actually manifest somewhere in the universe. If we happen to enter a physically manifest one during our lucid dream, we disappear from here.

OK, now Ive lost all scientific credibility, but what the heck

do you disappear from your bed? or do you just exist at two places at the same time? it's kinda twisted, because if one were to stumble upon a physical realm during lucid dreaming or astral projection, they would need themselves to exist in their original realm to maintain the new one manifested.

i guess if you did stumble across a physical manifestation, it could suck you in and awaken you, and you'll be mysteriously in an unknown location. this would be a disappearance, and depending on where you inadvertently transported yourself, it could take days, weeks, months to find modern civilization again.

skyfloating, this is the paranormal forum...where fuzzy science kinda makes this all work

reply to post by Long Lance


The last part of you statement is the correct assumption...
See Almaraz did manage to prove the government had indeed framed both bus drivers One of the two men, Garcia was found innocent by a judge who reversed his murder conviction

Mario Escobedo Anaya, the lawyer for Gonzalez, the other defendant was shot to death in 2002 by Chihuahua State Judicial Police led by the same police commander who arrested Gonzalez and Garcia... A year later, Gonzalez was found dead in his prison cell after undergoing a mysterious operation.

a highly-charged dispute between Almaraz and Ciudad Juarez District Attorney Cony Velarde over Almaraz's supposed links to stolen vehicles went public. Days prior to his death, Almaraz declared Velarde, a 28-year-old former women's homicides special prosecutor, would be responsible for anything that might happen to him. A nephew of the slain lawyer disappeared in an earlier, separate incident and is still missing.

Almaraz was shot to death on the afternoon of January 25 2006 in downtown Ciudad Juarez while he was driving in a Suburban vehicle with a companion. Conflicting, initial reports indicated that Almaraz and his companion, who was only identified as Miguel, were accosted by a gunman or gunmen firing either 9 mm or AK-47 weapons from a Ford Expedition vehicle with New Mexico license plates. Almaraz was killed in the attack but his companion survived.

As if sending a message to keep out of it or else, Almaraz was murdered in the same zone of Ciudad Juarez where some of the cotton field victims and numerous other young women had disappeared. Within sight of those pink crosses...
so can any one say government involvement? Sure I knew you could...

reply to post by Skyfloating


10,000,000 is not hard to believe as others state that it is.. for one good reason.

That number includes every time a kid is taken by someones babbies daddies close relatives friend to get back at his woman for sleeping with the other kids babby daddy even after she said she wouldn't do that again, then found out he wasn't the baby daddy after all and that another guy was in fact the baby daddy but she can't remember his name.

So. Take into account how often THAT happens.. which is often.. 10 million F'd up kids.. not hard to believe at all is it?

While I find people who disapear for no apparent reason interesting, I believe the logical explanation is that.. they just left. Tired of life, they ran away.. became transients, took on new identities.. is it hard to imagine a man who wants to leave his wife but is a bit of a coward and won't go through a divorce so he runs away in the middle of the night?

What I find concerning is the large number of children who .. vanish. No other word for it. Vanish for no reason, and are never seen again.. and no one is ever found to be charged with their kidnapping. They vanish far more often then adults.. you know they are not wandering off by them selves.. someone took them.

IMO, there is an organized effort, not just in America, but else where, to capture children and filter them into the child slave market..

Another would be government agencies or corporate contractors, capturing children for expiremental purposes.. insane, but not impossible.

The number of transients go up a small amount when the economy gets worse but no where near any of the proposed volumes.

Since nothing is impossible a full complete and focused intention will bend time and the perception of time others may have, it is not unreason able to open the door wider and pass through. To end up in a place that would not support life would mean not on death but the end state of the body being left where it could not be found.

Its the multiples at the same time that lean towards a rip in the fabric.

Strange things.....

reply to post by Illahee


I don't get it.

(I have the right to create oneline post. Even though this is now a two line post.)

reply to post by Skyfloating


Sorry, haven't noticed this post before.
(So many posts, so little time... I really could use more of my-selves! )

But do people who do astral travel necessarily (and I am stressing the word) disappear from one of the locations?
If photons can slip through two slits simultaneously... you get my drift.

(I never had any scientific credibility here at ATS, so I get to ask anything... )



P.S.
I think I may have been seen in Venice on a certain occasion, when I know for a fact I was nowhere near Venice - but I had been daydreaming about going there for Christmas that year...
Go figure.




[edit on 8-4-2008 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by banyan

do you disappear from your bed? or do you just exist at two places at the same time? it's kinda twisted, because if one were to stumble upon a physical realm during lucid dreaming or astral projection, they would need themselves to exist in their original realm to maintain the new one manifested.

The general idea is that there is the non-physical realm, the physical realm and the realm inbetween...the pre-manifest we visit in dreams. The reports Ive read and personal experience indicates that if you, during lucid dreaming, happen upon a reality that is more physically manifest than subtle/etheric, your body over here either "falls asleep and doesnt wake up" or disappears altogether. The maintanance of the old self is not "necessary" as the entire persons consciousness is projected into the new environment. The theory is that this is very rare and most often involuntary.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

I don't get it.

Thats alright. Its paranormal-forum-slang. This thread is a strange mix of real-life-scenarios and paranormal explanations.