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Originally posted by Relentless
Originally posted by VIKINGANT
These issues are merely things that non Catholic (and even some Catholic) people have queried over time and I thought I might ask here for some further opinions and try to get some background on some rituals and traditions.
Okay - if that is really the reason you posted, and since no one has actually explained them, I'll give some background - which admittedly most Catholics have not bothered to educate themselves on.
Catholics have not bothered to educate themselves on.
there have been countless admissions of guilt by the Church
Originally posted by barmshadow84
The many different forms & I say "FORMS" of Christianity has their own system of keeping their members in line. For myself I'am a born again Southern Baptist, We have our own hang-ups.
However as a good friend of mine reminds me we are not to judge people. The important thing is that as Catholics they to have accepted Christ. [meaning they will go to heaven] so why torment over the little things
Originally posted by VIKINGANT
Why is it that the Catholic Church can “make up” its own rules and make the whole Christian world obey?
Please correct me if I am wrong on these
Originally posted by VIKINGANT
... an opportunity for catholics to clear up some perhaps misconceived ideas about the church
Originally posted by FlyersFan
1 - Read the catechism.
Originally posted by VIKINGANT
My question is have you ever read it?
Would you care at any stage to quote from it here ..
Reading the catechism does not answer all questions
Originally posted by miriam0566
so wait im confused, the catechism replaces the bible?
so wait im confused, the catechism replaces the bible?
It was intended as a manual for beginners as a compilation of all of the main theological teachings of that time. It summarizes the reasonings for almost all points of Christian theology in the West, which, before the Protestant Reformation, subsisted solely in the Roman Catholic Church. The Summa's topics follow a cycle: the existence of God, God's creation, Man, Man's purpose, Christ, the Sacraments, and back to God....
....Each part contains several questions, each of which revolves around a more specific subtopic; one such question is "Of Christ's Manner of Life." Each question contains several articles, which are phrased as interrogative statements dealing with specific issues, such as "Whether Christ should have led a life of poverty in this world?" The Summa has a standard format for handling each article.
A series of objections to the (yet to be stated) conclusion are given; one such objection, for example, is that "Christ should have embraced the most eligible form of life . . . which is a mean between riches and poverty."
A short counter statement, beginning with the phrase "sed contra" ("on the contrary"), is then given; this statement almost always references authoritative literature, such as the Bible or Aristotle. In this instance, Aquinas begins, "It is written [in Matthew 8:20]: 'The Son of Man hath not where to lay His head.' "
The actual argument is then made; this is generally a clarification of the issue. For example, Aquinas states that "it was fitting for Christ to lead a life of poverty in this world" for four distinct reasons, each of which is expounded in some detail.
Individual replies to the preceding objections are then given, if necessary. These replies range from one sentence to several paragraphs in length. Aquinas's reply to the above objection is that "those who wish to live virtuously need to avoid abundance of riches and beggary, . . . but voluntary poverty is not open to this danger: and such was the poverty chosen by Christ."
Explainations come complete with bible quotes and reasons given by Church Fathers - church fathers from all the way back to the first few hundred years after Christ rose from the dead.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Explainations come complete with bible quotes and reasons given by Church Fathers - church fathers from all the way back to the first few hundred years after Christ rose from the dead.
366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235
235 Cf. Pius XII, Humani Generis: DS 3896; Paul VI, CPG § 8; Lateran Council V (1513): DS 1440.
1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51
50 Cf. Council of Trent (1546): DS 1514; cf. Col 1:12-14.
51 Cf. CIC, can. 867; CCEO, cann. 681; 686,1.
2789 When we pray to "our" Father, we personally address the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. By doing so we do not divide the Godhead, since the Father is its "source and origin," but rather confess that the Son is eternally begotten by him and the Holy Spirit proceeds from him. We are not confusing the persons, for we confess that our communion is with the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ, in their one Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity is consubstantial and indivisible. When we pray to the Father, we adore and glorify him together with the Son and the Holy Spirit.
253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity". The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God." In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."
Originally posted by miriam0566
not everything is backed up scripturally.
Originally posted by miriam0566
how can a baby believe?
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Yeah .. brushing through a catechism at 100 mph will really lend itself to understanding the Catholic faith. READ IT.
1 - The Catholic Church has scripture AND sacred tradition.
sacred tradition is different from apostate teaching
3 - The BIBLE says that sacred tradition is just fine and even encourages it.
except when there isnt scripture to back it up, or unless its talking about an immortal soul, but other than that it doesnt conflict... sort of.
4 - Nothing in the Catholic Church goes against scripture. It may be extra-scriptural (tradition is outside of scripture) but it doesn't go AGAINST what the bible says.
Scripture states that whole families were baptized. Babies are part of families. Therefore - babies can be baptized. When a child reaches the age of maturity (around 14 -just like in the Jewish religion) they are 'confirmed' in the faith. They state the baptism promises and are annointed with blessed holy oil. THAT’S IN THE CATECHISM.
As far as your 'one God in Three Persons' not being scriptural.... yes it is.
“In the beginning was The Word (Jesus) and The Word was with God and The Word was God … “
“Let US make man in OUR image”
“Go baptize in the name of the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit”
If you decide that you don’t believe interpretations .. fine. But make sure that if you accuse the Catholic Church’s theology of something then you actually get it right and not accuse it of something that isn’t there.
BTW .. The BIBLE itself says that not all truths are held within it. Nor are all of Christ’s teachings. ‘All the books in the world are not enough to hold the teachings of Jesus’.
From the Book of Exodus, Old Testament
The Ark
25:10 Make an ark of acacia wood, 2 and a half cubits long, 1 and a half cubits wide, and 1 and a half cubits high.
25:11 Cover it with a layer of pure gold on the inside and outside, and make a gold rim all around its top.
25:12 Cast four gold rings for [the ark], and place them on its four corners, two rings on one side, and two on the other side.
25:13 Make two carrying poles of acacia wood and cover them with a layer of gold.
25:14 Place the poles in the rings on the sides of the ark, so that the ark can be carried with them.
25:15 The poles must remain in the ark's rings and not be removed.
25:16 It is in this ark that you will place the testimony that I will give you.
25:17 Make a golden cover for the ark, 2 and a half cubits long and 1 and half cubits wide.
25:18 Make two golden cherubs, hammering them out from the two ends of the cover.
25:19 One cherub shall be on the end, and one on the other. Make the cherubs from [the same piece of gold] as the cover itself, on its two ends.
25:20 The cherubs shall spread their wings upward so that their wings shield the cover. The cherubs shall face one another, but their faces shall [also be inclined downward] toward the cover.
25:21 Place the cover on top of the ark [after] you place into the ark the testimony that I will give you.
25:22 I will commune with you there, speaking to you from above the ark-cover, from between the two cherubs that are on the Ark of Testimony. [In this manner] I will give you instructions for the Israelites.
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ. (Matthew 16:17-20)
Originally posted by The angel of light
- The so called Cult to images is frankly part of the protestant rethoric since the XVI century, and is totally false. The images or statues are not idols in the Catholic church, no body believes that they are "Gods", they are just there only to create an athmosphere of pray, to remember the people who were the important personages of the Christian faith.
It is important to recall that during many epochs in the past not all the common people had good education so this was a very effective way to teach religion, since even there were peasants or other poor that didnt know how to write or read.
Besides this even God himself supported the use of images, chk this:
come to sevilla during semana santa and you will see that is flase false false.
From the Ascent of Man, Jacob Bronowski
Thinking about these forms of pattern, exhausting in practice the possibilities of the symmetries of
space (at least in two dimensions), was the great achievement of Arab mathematics. And it has a wonderful finality, a thousand years old. The king, the naked women, the eunuchs and the blind musicians made a marvelous formal pattern in which the exploration of what exists was perfect, but which, alas, was not looking for any change. There is nothing new in mathematics, because there is nothing new in human thought, until the ascent of man moved forward to a different dynamic.
Christianity began to surge back in northern Spain about 1000 AD from footholds like the village of Santillana in a coastal strip which the Moors never conquered. It is a religion of the earth there, expressed in the simple images of the village - the ox, the ass, the Lamb of God. The animal images would be unthinkable in Moslem worship. And not only the animal form is allowed; the Son of God is a child, His mother is a woman and is the object of personal worship. When the Virgin is carried in
procession, we are in a different universe of vision: not of abstract patterns, but of abounding and irrepressible life.
When Christianity came to win back Spain, the excitement of the struggle was on the frontier. Here Moors and Christians, and Jews too, mingled and made an extraordinary culture of different faiths. In 1085 the centre of this mixed culture was fixed for a time in the city of Toledo. Toledo was the
intellectual port of entry into Christian Europe of all the classics that the Arabs had brought together from Greece, from the Middle East, from Asia.
We think of Italy as the birthplace of the Renaissance. But the conception was in Spain in the twelfth century, and it is symbolized and expressed by the famous school of translators at Toledo, where the ancient texts were turned from Greek (which Europe had forgotten) through Arabic and Hebrew into Latin. In Toledo, amid other intellectual advances, an early set of astronomical tables was drawn up, as an encyclopedia of star positions. It is characteristic of the city and the time that the tables are
Christian, but the numerals are Arabic, and are by now recognizably modern.
miriam0565
yes the church is familiar with changing its faith so that more people are inclined to join
the ark of covenant was only seen by the high priest and only once a year. other than that, it was hidden in the most holy compartment. god was said to reside above it between the 2 cherubs, not in it. so no, its not an idol